[Albion] For the benefit of the complete and utter shyster

[darkwolf666]

not sure there is the wholesale disrespect of referees in RU that we see in Football.

Good point, I wonder if this thread would even exist on a rugby forum? Does the respect for referees extend on and off the pitch, as it clearly doesn’t in football?

 

[Simster]

Good point, I wonder if this thread would even exist on a rugby forum? Does the respect for referees extend on and off the pitch, as it clearly doesn’t in football?

I won't disagree with the bare fact that referees are treated with a lot more respect in both rugby codes, but in fairness rugby lends itself far better to respecting the ref in the first place. This is because it is a game where territory is far more important than possession, so with gobbing off being penalised with moving the game line towards your own try line (or worse still a penalty) the consequences for lack of respect are tangible. There isn't really an equivalent in football except in very particular parts of the pitch.

But for all that, I don't understand why FIFA don't make respect for the referee more important (and playacting for that matter). IMO they've lost sight of the fact that kids watch games and are influenced by such behaviour. I can only assume that there are parts of the world where conning/abusing the referee is considered "part of the game".

Well it's not part of any game I want to be involved in.

 

[darkwolf666]

I won't disagree with the bare fact that referees are treated with a lot more respect in both rugby codes, but in fairness rugby lends itself far better to respecting the ref in the first place. This is because it is a game where territory is far more important than possession, so with gobbing off being penalised with moving the game line towards your own try line (or worse still a penalty) the consequences for lack of respect are tangible. There isn't really an equivalent in football except in very particular parts of the pitch.

But for all that, I don't understand why FIFA don't make respect for the referee more important (and playacting for that matter). IMO they've lost sight of the fact that kids watch games and are influenced by such behaviour. I can only assume that there are parts of the world where conning/abusing the referee is considered "part of the game".

Well it's not part of any game I want to be involved in.

Such a rule briefly existed in England and was I believe scrapped in the early 2000’s, it was scrapped by FIFA as non rugby playing countries didn’t understand the concept!!!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I have a bit of sympathy with Dean on that one, Schindler was completely deserving of both yellows and if he didn't realise he was booked, or think to check then he is an idiot and deserved his yellows then red. In fact, I said similar about Dunk that if he didn't know then he should have checked. Players are all too ready to give referees stick all game, but can't ask 'Am I in the book ref?'

Schindler knew the whistle had gone for a free kick, but turned his back & walked away. MD could have made a show of calling him back to make sure he'd seen the card, but didn't.
We've seen it ourselves with the 'innocent look', do you mean me, ref?

 

[sydney]

I won't disagree with the bare fact that referees are treated with a lot more respect in both rugby codes, but in fairness rugby lends itself far better to respecting the ref in the first place. This is because it is a game where territory is far more important than possession, so with gobbing off being penalised with moving the game line towards your own try line (or worse still a penalty) the consequences for lack of respect are tangible. There isn't really an equivalent in football except in very particular parts of the pitch.

But for all that, I don't understand why FIFA don't make respect for the referee more important (and playacting for that matter). IMO they've lost sight of the fact that kids watch games and are influenced by such behaviour. I can only assume that there are parts of the world where conning/abusing the referee is considered "part of the game".

Well it's not part of any game I want to be involved in.

i think there are parts of the globe where conning the authorities has been taken to a new level and also the conning of the populus by said authorities.......it really is hard to know what the truth is any more .............!!

 

[Frankie]

Refs make a rod for their own back by not straight red carding abusive players/managers , they have the power to do so but instead in the main seem to turn a blind eye , most managers themselves seem to think it's perfectly fine to scream obscenities at the ref and 4th official so what hope for the players to change their ways if both Manger and Refs view it as just Bantz and part of the game , wouldn't take long before Ref baiting was eradicated from the game if the Refs themselves implemented the actual foul and abusive laws that are there to protect them i the first place , mad man Hughton and Dyche may as well go shopping game days if Refs do start using their un Jedi like powers .

 

[Gwylan]

But for all that, I don't understand why FIFA don't make respect for the referee more important (and playacting for that matter). IMO they've lost sight of the fact that kids watch games and are influenced by such behaviour. I can only assume that there are parts of the world where conning/abusing the referee is considered "part of the game".

I've mentioned before about how rugby players are taught, right from the beginning, to respect refs. If you learn good habits when you're six, they're going to carry on throughout your sporting life.

If reffed rugby matches and it's a joy to do so: no-one queries your decision and you get addressed as 'sir'. It's the same in cricket too: you learn at an early age to respect umpire's decision - even if they get it wrong. Players know if they cross the line, then clubs will take action.

But there's also a different attitude from officials in these sports - they'll try to nip problems in the bud. Umpires will warn if a bowler is getting close to no-balling. Last season, I stopped a bowler in his run-up as I noticed he had three fielders behind square on the legside, he then had time to adjust his field so that he wasn't no-balled.

You'll see rugby refs tell players to hold back if they're stepping over the offside line, or to keep hands off in a ruck. Getting warnings really helps the players.

It's a completely different culture.

 

[Gazwag]

Referee abuse was championed by Alex Ferguson and his teams which is why we now have a generation who think its right to do so.

 

[Simster]

I've mentioned before about how rugby players are taught, right from the beginning, to respect refs. If you learn good habits when you're six, they're going to carry on throughout your sporting life.

If reffed rugby matches and it's a joy to do so: no-one queries your decision and you get addressed as 'sir'. It's the same in cricket too: you learn at an early age to respect umpire's decision - even if they get it wrong. Players know if they cross the line, then clubs will take action.

But there's also a different attitude from officials in these sports - they'll try to nip problems in the bud. Umpires will warn if a bowler is getting close to no-balling. Last season, I stopped a bowler in his run-up as I noticed he had three fielders behind square on the legside, he then had time to adjust his field so that he wasn't no-balled.

You'll see rugby refs tell players to hold back if they're stepping over the offside line, or to keep hands off in a ruck. Getting warnings really helps the players.

It's a completely different culture.

I agree. I too referee rugby matches regularly (tag rugby at U8s level, specifically) and the coaches ram it down the throats of all the kids that you don't even question things, you just accept the decision. Sometimes that is hard because of the perceived injustice, but it helps in the long run.

The other overlooked consequence of this massive cultural difference is that it promotes a very different type of referee. If I as a potential referee know that there is a fair chance I'm going to be abused by certain individuals for having the temerity of impartially trying to make a fair decision, eventually I'm going to think "bollocks to this - I'd rather do something else". So ultimately, football ends up with referees who act like prickly primary school teachers who relish confrontation and having power - people like Mike Dean, whereas rugby has a much broader representation of people refereeing its games.

 

[Simster]

Refs make a rod for their own back by not straight red carding abusive players/managers , they have the power to do so but instead in the main seem to turn a blind eye , most managers themselves seem to think it's perfectly fine to scream obscenities at the ref and 4th official so what hope for the players to change their ways if both Manger and Refs view it as just Bantz and part of the game , wouldn't take long before Ref baiting was eradicated from the game if the Refs themselves implemented the actual foul and abusive laws that are there to protect them i the first place , mad man Hughton and Dyche may as well go shopping game days if Refs do start using their un Jedi like powers .

If a referee did this out of the blue, he'd be accused of ruining the game unnecessarily. So whilst I agree it would be nice to get to the point where that sort of thing can happen, I'd say there needs to be a cultural shift first, towards a place where the referee is respected by and large.

 

[Stat Brother]

If a referee did this out of the blue, he'd be accused of ruining the game unnecessarily. So whilst I agree it would be nice to get to the point where that sort of thing can happen, I'd say there needs to be a cultural shift first, towards a place where the referee is respected by and large.

"making the game all about them".

Solly showed how to deal with diving.
Perhaps the players mothers need to be available so the offending player (Dunk) can repeat what they said directly to her.

 

[Simster]

"making the game all about them".

Solly showed how to deal with diving.
Perhaps the players mothers need to be available so the offending player (Dunk) can repeat what they said directly to her.

No he didn't, he just played to the whistle.

 

[Stat Brother]

No he didn't, he just played to the whistle.

Which would irradiate diving if teams were constantly down to 10 men because the opposition didn't needlessly kick anyone the ball out.

 

[Icy Gull]

Which would irradiate diving if teams were constantly down to 10 men because the opposition didn't needlessly kick anyone the ball out.

That’s a bit extreme

 

[Simster]

Which would irradiate diving if teams were constantly down to 10 men because the opposition didn't needlessly kick anyone the ball out.

Absolute bollocks. Players only dive to buy free kicks and always have done. Playing to the whistle has also always been done, this kicking the ball out for the opposition is a relatively new thing and didn't really happen in the 80s when I started watching regularly.

Regardless, this is a thread about referees FFS. No need to derail it with this nonsense.

 

[Stat Brother]

There's me thinking the thread was about respecting the referee by not repeatedly abusing, belittling and conning them.

 

[rippleman]

Good point, I wonder if this thread would even exist on a rugby forum? Does the respect for referees extend on and off the pitch, as it clearly doesn’t in football?

The great Billy Beaumont summed it up perfectly:

"Football is a gentlemen's game played by hooligans. Rugby is a hooligans' game, played by gentlemen"

 

[Mellotron]

Absolute bollocks. Players only dive to buy free kicks and always have done. Playing to the whistle has also always been done, this kicking the ball out for the opposition is a relatively new thing and didn't really happen in the 80s when I started watching regularly.

Regardless, this is a thread about referees FFS. No need to derail it with this nonsense.

The thing that really annoyed me also is that Everton actually had the ball for a while, whilst Richarlison was lying on the floor crying. It only became an issue bizarrely once we had the ball.

 

[Simster]

The great Billy Beaumont summed it up perfectly:

"Football is a gentlemen's game played by hooligans. Rugby is a hooligans' game, played by gentlemen"

Not at the game I went to see last week at Twickenham. Sold out 82,000 stadium, 'Quins v Wasps was overshadowed by the sort of spitting incident you expect from South American soccerists at the World Cup, and then a tackle that really did pay scant regard to Mike Brown's safety and could have left him paralysed!

 

[WATFORD zero]

The thing that really annoyed me also is that Everton actually had the ball for a while, whilst Richarlison was lying on the floor crying. It only became an issue bizarrely once we had the ball.

The thing that really annoyed me also is that Richarlison played on for a bit before throwing himself to the ground 'injured', before Everton actually had the ball for a while, whilst Richarlison was lying on the floor crying. It only became an issue bizarrely once we had the ball