Football League clubs have voted in favour of changes to the academy system-Why?

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Very disappointed that we voted for this. It's nothing short of blackmail by the Premier League, and IMO we should have stood firm.

I wonder who, along with Ken Brown, actually decided on which way we should vote?

As others have said, we voted for 7 subs, so weren't afraid of upsetting the smaller clubs in the summer.

And I'm pretty sure the 90 minute rule is travelling time, not training time.

 

[Brovion]

Very disappointed that we voted for this. It's nothing short of blackmail by the Premier League, and IMO we should have stood firm.

I wonder who, along with Ken Brown, actually decided on which way we should vote?

As others have said, we voted for 7 subs, so weren't afraid of upsetting the smaller clubs in the summer.

And I'm pretty sure the 90 minute rule is travelling time, not training time.

There are (were) two ninety minute rules. One applies to travelling time, but the other applied to how much training the boys were allowed to do per day.

 

[BigGully]

There are (were) two ninety minute rules. One applies to travelling time, but the other applied to how much training the boys were allowed to do per day.

I am pretty sure that there are only MINIMUM requirements of 3 hours per week for training at Centre of Excellences, not maximums.

1 hour travelling time up to 12years and 90 minutes thereafter.

 

[Brovion]

I am pretty sure that there are only MINIMUM requirements of 3 hours per week for training at Centre of Excellences, not maximums.

...

Not what I read originally, and today's story in the Indy seems to back me up. See 2nd to last paragraph: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...accepts-big-clubs-academies-plan-2373577.html

 

[Bakero]

I am pretty sure that there are only MINIMUM requirements of 3 hours per week for training at Centre of Excellences, not maximums.

1 hour travelling time up to 12years and 90 minutes thereafter.

Not according to Ferguson: "We are only allowed to coach [schoolboys] for an hour and a half a day. Barcelona can coach every hour of the day if they want and that's a great advantage they have got," Sir Alex Ferguson says.

Educate young players or we will be forever given footballing lessons | Paul Hayward | Football | The Guardian

 

[Brovion]

Not according to Ferguson: "We are only allowed to coach [schoolboys] for an hour and a half a day. Barcelona can coach every hour of the day if they want and that's a great advantage they have got," Sir Alex Ferguson says.

Educate young players or we will be forever given footballing lessons | Paul Hayward | Football | The Guardian

That's a good article and pretty much sums up my view on it. Did reading it change your opinion at all?

 

[Bakero]

That's a good article and pretty much sums up my view on it. Did reading it change your opinion at all?

It's an interesting article but it didn't change my opinion. Focusing on the scrapping of tribunals, these changes have been made purely in favour of the big clubs. As I mentioned before, I support the rule changes regarding hours that youth players can train but I don't think the architects of this plan were acting altruistically. The fact is it will undoubtedly be detrimental to the youth set ups of smaller clubs. The beauty of English football is the depth and the connection from Premier League, through the Football League, to semi-pro and amateur football. This will further the divide between the elite and the rest.

Another interesting article from before the vote:
Football League clubs fear eclipse under Premier League player plans | Football | The Guardian

 

[Brovion]

It's an interesting article but it didn't change my opinion. Focusing on the scrapping of tribunals, these changes have been made purely in favour of the big clubs. As I mentioned before, I support the rule changes regarding hours that youth players can train but I don't think the architects of this plan were acting altruistically. The fact is it will undoubtedly be detrimental to the youth set ups of smaller clubs. The beauty of English football is the depth and the connection from Premier League, through the Football League, to semi-pro and amateur football. This will further the divide between the elite and the rest.

Another interesting article from before the vote:
Football League clubs fear eclipse under Premier League player plans | Football | The Guardian

Fair comment, I don't 100% agree with you, but I certainly don't 100% disagree with you either. Be interesting to see how it pans out in practice and whether your more pessimistic view turns out to be correct. Speaking for myself I'd happily see us sacrifice a few Lewis Dunks if it meant England developed players skilful enough to win the World Cup!

 

[Lush]

Just as an aside, I see that Gus is saying on the website how the academies are pivotal to producing a decent national squad. However, just as every job in the UK is open to anyone in the EU, surely academy places will be open to any young player in the EU under EU rules and no-one will be allowed to discriminate against young EU players who want to join and are good enough?

 

[Bakero]

Fair comment, I don't 100% agree with you, but I certainly don't 100% disagree with you either. Be interesting to see how it pans out in practice and whether your more pessimistic view turns out to be correct. Speaking for myself I'd happily see us sacrifice a few Lewis Dunks if it meant England developed players skilful enough to win the World Cup!

I guess I'm thinking about Brighton, and by proxy other smaller clubs, rather than developing England internationals. In that regard, it does initially make sense to have the best kids training together with the best coaches: that leads us to the key problem though, the lack of top quality coaches. " Only 2,769 English coaches hold Uefa's B, A and Pro badges. Spain has 23,995, Italy 29,420 and Germany 34,790"

Football coach shortage paints bleak picture for England's future | Football | The Guardian

 

[Gus is god]

still the main issue for me is the scrapping of the 90min rule

 

[HG201]

Absolutely ridiculous move. All this game is now is keeping the big names (and big bank accounts) happy

 

[BigGully]

Sorry thought you said that the kids could only train 3 times a week.

I actually think the main problem are the restriction on the options young players have rather than worry about the clubs.

All clubs are brutally selfish and most offer the bare minimum standards and cram them full of mediocre coaches who then demand big fee's for developing an up and coming starlet that probably has his chromosomes and his big brother to thank for his skill.

Its a postcode lottery, if your a talented youngster in Somerset your options are limited whilst within the big cities you have more options to access first class coaching, but even they get you signed up at 8 years old and then you have very little opportunity to move to another club without some exorbitant fee being demanded by your registered club.

So I wouldnt weep for the clubs but for the decent 10 year old that is lumbered with a club that doesnt offer them the quality the deserve.

 

[Acker79]

I find it quite hard to get worked up about it.

-works both ways
When we get our academy up and running, won't we be able to sign some villa youth product or maybe someone from everton or newcastle? If we have a top training facility, and can offer a greater chance for first team action sooner than a premier league team wouldn't that be a selling point? We might even be premier league by the time our academy is up and running, so would benefit too.

-players develop at different rates
Some talent won't excel at a young age and so will be ignored by bigger clubs, and by the time they do start to develop their training club will have signed them to pro contracts and given them first team appearances.

The example of michael standing and gareth barry earlier in the thread is another example. We had no idea Barry would be as good as he has became, and we had higher expectations for standing. We were wrong on both counts, how can a panel accurately assess these players worth if the people who trained them couldn't?

-encourage clubs to give youth a chance so can recoup money
Won't clubs start giving their youth a chance in the first team so they cross over into the next group and buying clubs have to spend on them. Maybe giving that player first team action will give the a taste of it, and they might turn down the opportunity to join man utd's academy if tey can push for promotion the the championship with charlton.

-encourage big teams to sign young english talent to develop
Won't it make some of the bigger teams more willing to take a risk on signing top english talent if they don't have to pay through the nose? Better players, training together in better facilities, will lead to better english players available for the national team.

-most won't be sold on
It seems like people are expecting our youth systems to be strip mined. Is that really likely to happen, or will it be the best one or two leaving plenty for us to develop and bring through the ranks and benefit from?

-financial fair play rules might make it cost prohibitive for premier league teams to buy youth talent from smaller clubs at tribunal, meaning they just don't bother and the clubs get nothing
With fifa introducing the financial fair play rules, clubs are going to be looking to cut costs where possible. Would they really want to risk 1m in developing a player who may turn out to be the next joe gatting if it means they can't afford to sign Messi? Then what do we get? Nothing.

-how many people were looking at lewis dunk before he started to play in he first team?
I don't remember reading about scouts checking out Dunk, until he started to play for the first team and show he had something. I think there will be lots more like him who don't show their true potential until it is tested in the first team, at which point the price goes up anyway.

 

[AMEXican Wave]

From the Argus:

Albion priced out in hunt for top loan stars From The Argus)

Managing director Ken Brown, the club’s representative at yesterday’s meeting, revealed: “We thought long and hard about it and in the end voted with the majority.

“It was a very difficult decision to make, looking ahead to our own ambitions but also being mindful of what is best for the Football League in general.

“We have ambitions for training facilities and academy status and will be working towards that, identifying our own talent. This just makes it a bit harder.”

He acknowledges that it will adversely affect our youth development but why does he think it's "best for the FL in general"?

Whilst we may have voted for this as being the best choice for the football league, it is certain that we wouldn't have voted for it if we judged it significantly went against our interests. This suggests that the training facility we are going to build will be at the very highest academy level, and we won't be losing too many talents to other clubs.

 

[Gus is god]

Sorry thought you said that the kids could only train 3 times a week.

I actually think the main problem are the restriction on the options young players have rather than worry about the clubs.

All clubs are brutally selfish and most offer the bare minimum standards and cram them full of mediocre coaches who then demand big fee's for developing an up and coming starlet that probably has his chromosomes and his big brother to thank for his skill.

Its a postcode lottery, if your a talented youngster in Somerset your options are limited whilst within the big cities you have more options to access first class coaching, but even they get you signed up at 8 years old and then you have very little opportunity to move to another club without some exorbitant fee being demanded by your registered club.

So I wouldnt weep for the clubs but for the decent 10 year old that is lumbered with a club that doesnt offer them the quality the deserve.

But there is no post code lottery any more the 90 rule has gone. Young players can go to any club now

 

[cloud]

But realistically, they will go to one near where they live.

 

[BigGully]

But there is no post code lottery any more the 90 rule has gone. Young players can go to any club now

Most are sucked in at an earlier age before major clubs become aware, but they are already hampered by their registration.

They are still not allowed to go to any other clubs without permission from their registered club which would then demand there allocated compensation.

Whereas maybe a late developer is free to go where-ever he wants without a fee.

Who would you sign out of two similar players, one which is likely to cost you £40000+ due solely to him registering with a club at an earlier date or someone who is free who is not burdened by registration.

Clubs can sometimes sign too many, to ensure they receive their compensation if one comes good, inevitably signing youngsters that have very little chance of making it, but whilst they play with the emotions of a 10 year old, every now and then they get a nice fat cheque from another Academy.

I think they should free up the registration process and offer other reasons for a kid to stay with them if there's interest from another club other than demanding money and 'owning' a 10 year old.

 

[Gus is god]

BBC Sport - Derby County boss Nigel Clough praises Mason Bennett

Sure Derby will be worried now with this lad.

 

[drew]

Most are sucked in at an earlier age before major clubs become aware, but they are already hampered by their registration.

They are still not allowed to go to any other clubs without permission from their registered club which would then demand there allocated compensation.

Whereas maybe a late developer is free to go where-ever he wants without a fee.

Who would you sign out of two similar players, one which is likely to cost you £40000+ due solely to him registering with a club at an earlier date or someone who is free who is not burdened by registration.

Clubs can sometimes sign too many, to ensure they receive their compensation if one comes good, inevitably signing youngsters that have very little chance of making it, but whilst they play with the emotions of a 10 year old, every now and then they get a nice fat cheque from another Academy.

I think they should free up the registration process and offer other reasons for a kid to stay with them if there's interest from another club other than demanding money and 'owning' a 10 year old.

Where is your evidence that small clubs sign too many youngster?