[Albion] Folarin Balogun

[blockhseagull]

This is the going rate in elite football, and “zero top flight experience”? So what?

Transfer fees are not purely based on current top flight experience. We should know this from our own Ben White saga.

Lots of other metrics determine the valuation of a player, and it’s not entirely current footballing ability. Age, potential and as an asset, resale value.

To put it in simple terms:
- If we sign a 34 year old player for 8m there is zero chance of recouping that fee
- if we sign an 18 year old for 8m there is a chance of recouping that fee and potentially making a profit should he turn into a gem.

I have no idea if this report is true, but buying a player like this and loaning him out shouldn’t be a surprise to us fans anymore, no? It’s almost like we have a business model at play.

No I said ZERO senior football experience.

He hasn’t played a competitive game at a senior level... at all.

Now I’m not arguing with anything your saying about future sell on and potential etc etc... your correct.

My point is specific to our need for a striker this season and that things are a bit tighter now post covid. And is obviously my own opinion

 

[vagabond]

No I said ZERO senior football experience.

He hasn’t played a competitive game at a senior level... at all.

Now I’m not arguing with anything your saying about future sell on and potential etc etc... your correct.

My point is specific to our need for a striker this season and that things are a bit tighter now post covid. And is obviously my own opinion

Same points stand if he has zero senior experience.

We do also need a striker for now though. Fully agree with you on that.

 

[deslynhamsmoustache1]

This is exactly what the fourth striker spot is for. When we are comfortable winning in games he gets a chance the last 20 minutes or so. Wouldn’t want to pay 8 million but 3-4 with appearance, goals scored etc. add on’s and I’m all for it. As he progresses so he climbs the strikers pecking order.

 

[Whitechapel]

Same points stand if he has zero senior experience.

We do also need a striker for now though. Fully agree with you on that.

Are you really trying to argue that there’s no difference between someone with over 100 professional starts and somebody with 0?

 

[vagabond]

Are you really trying to argue that there’s no difference between someone with over 100 professional starts and somebody with 0?

That’s not at all what I said. Don’t misrepresent me thanks.

Please read carefully and feel free to comment against a specific point I raised.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Suspect we may be being linked due to the similarity of the situation with Lamptey's.

Having said that, one look at us tells you the pathway to the first team for a young striker is wide open (at the moment).

 

[blue-shifted]

This is exactly what the fourth striker spot is for. When we are comfortable winning in games he gets a chance the last 20 minutes or so. Wouldn’t want to pay 8 million but 3-4 with appearance, goals scored etc. add on’s and I’m all for it. As he progresses so he climbs the strikers pecking order.

What would he have got on the pitch last season, 20 minutes?

 

[Uter]

Having said that, one look at us tells you the pathway to the first team for a young striker is wide open (at the moment).

Exactly my thinking.


Sancho went to Dortmund for a similar sum with no senior minutes at all. Now worth £80m +
Lamptey had 31 minutes of PL football and 14 minutes of FA cup experience before joining us.

Once players gain experience and prove themselves then pretty soon we can't afford them. It's a calculated gamble. This might be the only opportunity we ever get to sign him.

I sense our recruitment seems to be quite focused in part on picking up good academy products in the 16/17/18/19 age range.

Leeds (e.g. Gelhardt from Wigan) and Villa (e.g. Ben Chrisene from Exeter) seem to be adopting a similar strategy.

 

[Swansman]

I’m sure the lad is great

But £8m for someone with ZERO senior football experience.

Firm no from me

Now I’m not overly excited by some of the players we are linked with currently, but I think I’d rather have Dia from Reims and his 1 in 3 scoring record than £8m on someone who hasn’t kicked a ball at senior level.

He could well take to it like a duck to water, however Connolly has shown us this season at times it’s VERY hard and I don’t think we can afford to take that risk currently

Are you really trying to argue that there’s no difference between someone with over 100 professional starts and somebody with 0?

Are you guys saying it would have been better signing... Martin Kelly from Palace or Geoff Cameron from QPR instead of Tariq Lamptey?

If the player is good enough, he is good enough no matter how many appearances they got previously. This guy will also get to 100 appearances, if he gets to play a 100 games. If everyone thought "you need to be proven in order to prove yourself", it would all get very weird. Luckily most PL managers arent like that these days.

In fact, every single England national team player had zero appearances before they had one appearance. And even more importantly, a bucket of them did very well in their first season of first team football.

Experience is a pretty small factor compared to quality.

 

[A1X]

I'm prepared to trust Ashworth and his team on this guy, if we are after him they clearly fancy him and as a third choice (at first) option I can think of worse.

Worst case scenario is he flops and we move him on for a couple of million in a year or two to someone in the Championship.

 

[brighton_tom]

Id be happy to take a punt on this guy for a minimal fee/wages. If they want £8m then we could offer £3-4million upfront and add ons after a certain amount of appearances. But i'd hope we'd sign someone else with experience too.

 

[b.w.2.]

At least he is a striker, and not another bl00dy CB.

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

I was getting quite down over the Nunez situation, but if we got this lad, so long as he isn't the main back up to Maupay and Connolly it would be good. Someone like Dia as back up until he is fully ready for first team action would mean we were better covered - I have to say I was very underwhelmed at the idea of him being our main signing. Let's face it, we aren't going to entertain the sort of wage demands Watkins is making. I presume Dunk's new contract is a one-off situation. If we were to sign someone else on £70,000 per week, would we not have a large number of the current players demanding the same?

A friend on a WhatsApp group I'm on also mentioned that we have our own Lorent Tolaj, who has been scoring goals for fun in the Under-18s. His 19th birthday is later this year. Okay, he's clearly not ready for the first team yet, but it would be good to see him get some time in the Carabao Cup. He is quite a finisher, as the video from the FA Youth Cup I've linked to shows. Mind you, I don't think the keeper is going to go very far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8IuxMXJW4I

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Id be happy to take a punt on this guy for a minimal fee/wages. If they want £8m then we could offer £3-4million upfront and add ons after a certain amount of appearances. But i'd hope we'd sign someone else with experience too.

I thought that clubs automatically get add ons from future sales of players they have developed.
No?

I may have misunderstood that.

 

[Swansman]

I thought that clubs automatically get add ons from future sales of players they have developed.
No?

I may have misunderstood that.

Its complicated... there is a FIFA rule called "solidarity payments" where the club that develops a player will get a sell-on fee from future transfers depending on how many years below the age of 21 (?) he spent at the club. This is a pretty low fee, I think 5% is what you can get at most.

And more importantly it only applies to international transfers. Watford and City will get money if Sancho moves from Dortmund to i.e. United, but they wont get anything (from this rule) if he moves from Dortmund to Bayern.

The solidarity payment thing was mainly created to prevent teams from the big European countries from robbing all the small countries of their most talented players without having to pay anything at all.

Not sure if the FA got a similar system for domestic transfers but regardless, I think Arsenal would probably want to have a sell on clause closer to 20 or 30 percent rather than two or three.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Its complicated... there is a FIFA rule called "solidarity payments" where the club that develops a player will get a sell-on fee from future transfers depending on how many years below the age of 21 (?) he spent at the club. This is a pretty low fee, I think 5% is what you can get at most.

And more importantly it only applies to international transfers. Watford and City will get money if Sancho moves from Dortmund to i.e. United, but they wont get anything (from this rule) if he moves from Dortmund to Bayern.

The solidarity payment thing was mainly created to prevent teams from the big European countries from robbing all the small countries of their most talented players without having to pay anything at all.

Not sure if the FA got a similar system for domestic transfers but regardless, I think Arsenal would probably want to have a sell on clause closer to 20 or 30 percent rather than two or three.

Makes sense, thanks.
That being the case, then £8m seems steep for an unproven player, whom they expect a further 30% from if we sell him on.

 

[Whitechapel]

Are you guys saying it would have been better signing... Martin Kelly from Palace or Geoff Cameron from QPR instead of Tariq Lamptey?

If the player is good enough, he is good enough no matter how many appearances they got previously. This guy will also get to 100 appearances, if he gets to play a 100 games. If everyone thought "you need to be proven in order to prove yourself", it would all get very weird. Luckily most PL managers arent like that these days.

In fact, every single England national team player had zero appearances before they had one appearance. And even more importantly, a bucket of them did very well in their first season of first team football.

Experience is a pretty small factor compared to quality.

No, I’m not. In fact I’ve posted in this thread that I’d be happy with the signing and compared it to the signing Lamptey.

I was just disagreeing with the notion that having no Prem experience is somehow comparable to no first team experience. A young player with 100 appearances in the Football League is less of a risk than a young player who has never played above youth level. It doesn’t mean exceptional talents like Lamptey won’t make the step up comfortably, but that doesn’t make it the same as someone like Ben White who was has 100+ appearances to his name.

Thanks for the patronising bollocks though.

 

[blockhseagull]

Are you guys saying it would have been better signing... Martin Kelly from Palace or Geoff Cameron from QPR instead of Tariq Lamptey?

If the player is good enough, he is good enough no matter how many appearances they got previously. This guy will also get to 100 appearances, if he gets to play a 100 games. If everyone thought "you need to be proven in order to prove yourself", it would all get very weird. Luckily most PL managers arent like that these days.

In fact, every single England national team player had zero appearances before they had one appearance. And even more importantly, a bucket of them did very well in their first season of first team football.

Experience is a pretty small factor compared to quality.

How do you know he is good enough ?

As he hasn’t ever played a game of senior competitive football it’s pretty tough to judge id guess so £8m is a lot of money to be paying for someone who hasn’t played men’s football.

If we were talking a lower fee in the region of Lamptey or a low up front fee with add ons I’d be of a different thought.

£8m for someone with zero experience at any senior level is high.... especially for a club our size

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I suppose it comes down to the simple equation that if we don't spend 8m on him now and wait for him to play first team football, if he's good we probably won't be able to get him for 25m next year even if we have the cash and he's available. Sometimes that risk has to be taken. It comes down to believing and trusting in our scouts.

 

[Pevenseagull]

In the word of Sarah Cracknel on St Etienne's, "He's on the phone" ...YES