Honky Tonx
New member
Now that would go against all Tory principals.
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First Grammar school to open in 50 years
- Thread starter TomandJerry
- Start date
Leyton Gull
Banned
- Sep 14, 2015
- 411
They ARE in a way.
Surely that's quite a small population? I had always imagined that most school principals would be inclined to vote for a left-of-centre party.
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
You see this received wisdom simply isn't true. There has been no great decline in numeracy or literacy. Children learn about a wide range of historical periods, my son is at a ww1 expereince day and his younger brother is currently studying the Greeks in his primary school.
In my personal experience it is definitely true, at least in STEM subjects. My son got an A* in Maths A level; he volunteered to take a scholarship paper I sat in 1975, aged 12 - he got 17%. He got an offer from Bristol Uni to read Maths there; the requirement was AAA. I got an offer to read Maths at Bristol in 1981; my offer was DD. Same course, same uni; and it's Maths - maths hasn't changed that much in 30 years - it's still calculus etc....
It's not 'received wisdom'. It's first hand observation - and no, that doesn't mean that EVERYONE is illiterate or cannot add up. Delighted your sons are doing well, but perhaps things are done better in Jibrovia............. There has been a decline in literacy and numeracy, although I'm sure the Department of Education (or whatever it's called these days) can cook up some stats to suggest otherwise.
I apologise for an error in my post - I had forgotten that they also do WW1, along with slavery and the holocaust; my kids did it as well - I'd just forgotten.
And as for your younger one studying the Greeks, I would point out that he is in a PRIMARY school, so not in the turmoil of modern day secondary education yet. Primary schools here did project work on both the Romans and the Ancient Egyptians; my comments only applied to secondary education.
This blaming of a specific type of education is a crock of shit. You've either got it or you haven't. I hated my comprehensive days, but got enough to do and get A-Levels, then enough to get a degree. Wasn't my chosen subject, but I did what was needed to learn throughout whatever education establishment would have me, as well as incredible support from my parents.
Now I wouldn't say I'm incredibly well off, but we have enough to ensure that my family don't need for anything.
Some people expect the educational establishment to get you were you need to go. Whilst a great school can give you an advantage, your own individual effort will give you more.
Now I wouldn't say I'm incredibly well off, but we have enough to ensure that my family don't need for anything.
Some people expect the educational establishment to get you were you need to go. Whilst a great school can give you an advantage, your own individual effort will give you more.
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
Anecdotal evidence which given your obvious bias we can safely ignore
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
Im calling bullshit on this one
- Jan 3, 2012
- 17,355
The best of education will not spoon-feed people, but will recognise what talents and skills people have, help them to develop those and enable them to get where they need to go themselves through, as you put it, their own "individual effort".
Your call - though it's true. The bit about Bristol is probably independently verifiable. Their website will show you the grades required for maths now (for all I know it's higher than AAA now, since it was 2 years ago that he got his offer). Other websites exist that show the normal offers for a wide variety of unis in various subjects at various points in time. My offer from Bristol was pretty standard at the time.
Surely, the biggest problem here is the annexing of a Grammar school in Sevenoaks, by the Weald of Kent school in Tonbridge, ten miles away, against the will of Parliament. It is against the law to set up new Grammar schools, but they have been allowed to do that by Nicky Morgan, and use public money to do it. I imagine this will be the thin end of the wedge, and by the end of this parliament, there will be many more annexed Grammar schools.
It seems , as with the drone strikes over Syria, the Tories don't feel they have to rule within the letter of the law, as long as they have a a bit of wriggle room
It seems , as with the drone strikes over Syria, the Tories don't feel they have to rule within the letter of the law, as long as they have a a bit of wriggle room
Fine argument, exquisitely put. Comprehensive punctuation?
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
The majority of people who want grammar schools assume that their brilliant children will get into them.
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
Yes, what we need are STATS!
I live in Sevenoaks so have a local viewpoint on this. In case its not blindingly obvious to all, Kent remains one of the few remaining Grammar counties in England. That means by definition, the non Grammar 11+ schools are 'poor' compared to the national average, which isn't surprising when the majority of the top stream kids are syphoned off to other schools. Kent also predominantly has single sex schools. The Academy school in Sevenoaks is a recent merger of the local girls & boys schools, the locals were really apposed to it and didn't want their kids mixing with the opposite sex. In fact for the kids already at the school when it merged they remain in single sex classes until they finish Y11.
In Kent as a whole, more kids pass the 11+ then there are places available. So passing it may not be sufficient to get a place, but passing it with a high 90+ score usually is, so another reason for tutoring. Kent CC is making it hard as they can to make the test 'non coachable'. It used to be taken in November but gets earlier & earlier and is now taken in early September. Sevenoaks apparently is the only town in Kent without its own Grammar school - latest figures show 1500 kids travel to Tunbridge Wells or Tonbridge each day. The Grammar places are more keenly sought after for boys than girls, mainly due the fact that 2 of the 3 schools in Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells (Judd & Skinners) are 'super selective'. i.e. you have to pass with close to 100%.
There was a previous application for this extension turned down, as Weald proposed to open a mixed 'annexe' in Sevenoaks, and it was rejected on the grounds it can't possibly be an annexe if you don't take boys already. Weald consulted their parents and took a vote on whether to become a mixed school but that was flatly rejected. So they re-applied but this time just for an annexe to its girls school, which has now been accepted. The local paper is reporting that as part of the application they had to demonstrate that pupils will be taught at both schools, i.e. Tonbridge & Sevenoaks, and that it won't operate as a separate school. Quite how that will be managed & implemented I don't know.
So Sevenoaks now has, subject to appeals etc., a Grammar school for girls. Reports are saying that they are in talks with one or two of the boys schools to do the same.
I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the Grammar system or not, but in Kent you are stuck with it and its not likely to change. The race to get a place in them is perfectly understandable and I can't criticise any parents for wanting the best for their kids.
In Kent as a whole, more kids pass the 11+ then there are places available. So passing it may not be sufficient to get a place, but passing it with a high 90+ score usually is, so another reason for tutoring. Kent CC is making it hard as they can to make the test 'non coachable'. It used to be taken in November but gets earlier & earlier and is now taken in early September. Sevenoaks apparently is the only town in Kent without its own Grammar school - latest figures show 1500 kids travel to Tunbridge Wells or Tonbridge each day. The Grammar places are more keenly sought after for boys than girls, mainly due the fact that 2 of the 3 schools in Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells (Judd & Skinners) are 'super selective'. i.e. you have to pass with close to 100%.
There was a previous application for this extension turned down, as Weald proposed to open a mixed 'annexe' in Sevenoaks, and it was rejected on the grounds it can't possibly be an annexe if you don't take boys already. Weald consulted their parents and took a vote on whether to become a mixed school but that was flatly rejected. So they re-applied but this time just for an annexe to its girls school, which has now been accepted. The local paper is reporting that as part of the application they had to demonstrate that pupils will be taught at both schools, i.e. Tonbridge & Sevenoaks, and that it won't operate as a separate school. Quite how that will be managed & implemented I don't know.
So Sevenoaks now has, subject to appeals etc., a Grammar school for girls. Reports are saying that they are in talks with one or two of the boys schools to do the same.
I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the Grammar system or not, but in Kent you are stuck with it and its not likely to change. The race to get a place in them is perfectly understandable and I can't criticise any parents for wanting the best for their kids.
chimneys
Well-known member
- Jun 11, 2007
- 3,609
Very well summed up fellow Sennockian.
It is important to understand this is a local issue for the only district in the whole of Kent not to have a Grammar School, consequently c1, 500 kids are shipped off daily on 2 hour bus rides (an hour there and an hour back) to Grammar Schools in Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells. Imagine 1, 500 Brighton/Hove secondary school kids having to get to/from Worthing using public transport daily.
It is not a Grammar v No Grammar national issue!