Firemans strike today - Retire at 55 or else...

[vegster]

The pension is good but the pay is shockingly bad.

That's why they often have another job to help make ends meet.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

I don't think that firefighters can be expected to be fit enough to be frontline in their late 50s. I similarly don't think that teachers will be quick/robust enough in their mid-to-late 60s to teacher a class of teenagers. The solution in both cases is to put older members of staff in back office roles where they can bring their experience to bear and still provide a useful service. Unfortunately none of the government offices responsible for these departments are forward-thinking enough to work out what these roles might be, so they are unable to offer this when discussions take place between unions and departments. It's incredibly short-sighted.

When you say back office roles, surely training and mentoring the younger staff, passing on their experience would be the best use.

 

[nicko31]

A firefighter who earns £29,000, and retires after a full career aged 60 will get a £19,000 a year pension, rising to £26,000 with the state pension

£19k, for the rest of us its £500k to buy an annuity. Hands up who has this kinda money in their private pension fund?

The whole final salary pension thing was a nice idea, but a completely flawed model.

 

[keaton]

Of course they're paid for by the public, where do you think your ticket price goes ffs, Tony Blooms back pocket No, it goes into their wages, from which pension contributions and NI contributions are made. When they retire, they will draw the state pension, just like you, me or anybody else......

And after they've quit the game, any long term medical problems will be treated via NHS hospitals, paid for by just who, exactly?

If you're going to be arsey try and be less thick. The Fireman have a public sector pension with contributions from the public purse. A footballers pension is topped (if at all) by the club

 

[wellquickwoody]

I challenge you to fight a fire or rescue someone once you hit 55+ ! It's not just about pensions, it's about the public's safety.

What about a desk job, or maintenance work?

 

[Nibble]

You've got to be more subtle than that if you want to catch anything.

Ha! That proper made me chuckle.

 

[sten_super]

When you say back office roles, surely training and mentoring the younger staff, passing on their experience would be the best use.

Yes, precisely this kind of thing - although there is a potential to end up with too many mentors within one station, which is why you'd probably want a range of potential roles available to them.

 

[ozseagull]

I don't think some people realise how much fire and police contribute to their own pensions. People always say how lucky fire and police are to have such great pensions. I believe both professionals are now paying in about 12% of their wages. Between £300 - £500 per month for some! A large amount to have taken monthly!

The government getting these professions to work to 60 is bizarre. A 60 year old fighting a fire or a 60 year old arresting a violent druggie. Not easy. It's an attempt to get people to leave before their pension matures and save huge amounts of money.

 

[Nibble]

I don't think that firefighters can be expected to be fit enough to be frontline in their late 50s. I similarly don't think that teachers will be quick/robust enough in their mid-to-late 60s to teacher a class of teenagers. The solution in both cases is to put older members of staff in back office roles where they can bring their experience to bear and still provide a useful service. Unfortunately none of the government offices responsible for these departments are forward-thinking enough to work out what these roles might be, so they are unable to offer this when discussions take place between unions and departments. It's incredibly short-sighted.

What utter rot. A 60 year old has plenty to offer a class. Wisdom, life experience, teaching skills. That is genuinely one of the most ill thought out, half baked, idiotic things I have EVER seen on this forum. And that's going some with a forum that boasts the likes of Ernest, Buzzer and Hybrid X as contributers.

 

[sten_super]

£19k, for the rest of us its £500k to buy an annuity. Hands up who has this kinda money in their private pension fund?

The whole final salary pension thing was a nice idea, but a completely flawed model.

Total contributions to the current fire service pension scheme total about 40% of salary - 11-15% worker contribution (depending upon earnings) and 26.5% contribution from the employer. My maths makes a 39.5% (to take the midpoint) contribution assuming an average salary of £29,000 to be £11,455 per annum, which sums over 35 years to be just over £400k. Add in compound interest and you are not far away from £500k.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I think their retirement age has been 60 for a while now: it's not that that's the issue as they could be moved into an office based role if it was becoming too much. The strike is connected to the pension and the fact they could lose out somehow on that.

Playing devil's advocate here, what's the difference between a firefighter cutting the roof off your car at 54 years and 364 days and one doing it at, say, 55 years and 12 days? You don't suddenly lose it once a specific date comes along.

Retirement age is, by definition, an arbitrary thing. The ones who are still fit enough to be on front line operations at 55 will still be going along, and the ones who aren't, won't. Regardless of what the government decrees is their retirement point.

 

[sten_super]

What utter rot. A 60 year old has plenty to offer a class. Wisdom, life experience, teaching skills. That is genuinely one of the most ill thought out, half baked, idiotic things I have EVER seen on this forum. And that's going some with a forum that boasts the likes of Ernest, Buzzer and Hybrid X as contributers.

I think that says far more about you than it does about me, to be perfectly honest.

I suggest you try teaching before you are quite so quick to judge the amount of effort and physical/mental fitness it takes to supervise 30 unruly teenagers. All I know (as neither a teacher nor a fireman) is that I certainly wouldn't fancy doing either job when I'm approaching old age.

 

[Nibble]

I think that says far more about you than it does about me, to be perfectly honest.

I suggest you try teaching before you are quite so quick to judge the amount of effort and physical/mental fitness it takes to supervise 30 unruly teenagers. All I know (as neither a teacher nor a fireman) is that I certainly wouldn't fancy doing either job when I'm approaching old age.

I do teach and hope to be more than capable of doing it when I am in my 60's but thanks for the attempt at patronisation. I'm sure all the poor teachers you deem past it at 60 will appreciate you looking out for them Whether a teacher wants to be teaching at 60 and whether they are capable of it are two different matters. Most are, just in case you didn't pick up on that ;-)

 

[Simster]

What utter rot. A 60 year old has plenty to offer a class. Wisdom, life experience, teaching skills. That is genuinely one of the most ill thought out, half baked, idiotic things I have EVER seen on this forum. And that's going some with a forum that boasts the likes of Ernest, Buzzer and Hybrid X as contributers.

Haha, still smarting at being so comprehensively owned by Buzzer last week I see.

 

[Nibble]

Haha, still smarting at being so comprehensively owned by Buzzer last week I see.

I have thought of little else.

 

[happypig]

Remuneration for any job isn't just monthly pay, it also includes other things like pensions. Firefighters accept that they get a fairly modest wage for the job they do but this is offset by a better pension than many others enjoy. It's the same for the police and armed forces.
I don't know why so many people begrudge public sector workers something that they have worked for for all thier lives.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I don't blame them for striking. My mate is a firefighter and explained it like this: If you signed up to a pension saying you'd get one thing and your employer changed it so you'd have to work twice as long for half as much, you'd try and fight it wouldn't you?

Whatever you think about how much they deserve it, and I know from my mate how cushy it is 95% of the time, if it happened to me I wouldn't bend over and take it either.

 

[BLOCK F]

I don't blame them for striking. My mate is a firefighter and explained it like this: If you signed up to a pension saying you'd get one thing and your employer changed it so you'd have to work twice as long for half as much, you'd try and fight it wouldn't you?

Whatever you think about how much they deserve it, and I know from my mate how cushy it is 95% of the time, if it happened to me I wouldn't bend over and take it either.

Work twice as long for half as much?
Have I missed something.Can you expand on this?

 

[sten_super]

I do teach and hope to be more than capable of doing it when I am in my 60's but thanks for the attempt at patronisation. I'm sure all the poor teachers you deem past it at 60 will appreciate you looking out for them Whether a teacher wants to be teaching at 60 and whether they are capable of it are two different matters. Most are, just in case you didn't pick up on that ;-)

Apologies, it's hard to keep track of all the professions on here, last I knew you were an actor. My wife is a teacher and has no idea how she'll cope as a teacher in her late 60s if the kids are as boisterous as they are now (notwithstanding the fact that they'll probably be much worse!). While to a point I accept that there is a difference between wanting to and being capable of teaching, there is definitely a quality control issue. We all get worse at things as we get older (beyond a certain point) - is it actually in the best interests of schools and fire stations to keep employees on when they are relatively inefficient? Of course if people want to keep going they should be able to, but that's not what is being proposed.

 

[Ronnie]

You forget that firemen quite often have another job for when they are between shifts, which I believe is the reason for them having to retire early, poor devils.

For our information Firefighters pay approx. 12% into their pension therefore as they pay a lot more in they can retire earlier