[Misc] Fire doors on houses converted into flats

[Icy Gull]

This place is such a font of knowledge I thought I’d ask. My daughter, who lives in a flat in an old three storey house, has been told by the committee that administers the place that she is legally obliged to have a fire door on the entry to her flat. It seems from what I have seen online that the communal front door does indeed need to be a fire door, but it seems there is no legal requirement to have a fire door on the door to your flat, if it is not shared.

Any one know the facts on this?

Thanks

 

[LVGull]

This place is such a font of knowledge I thought I’d ask. My daughter, who lives in a flat in an old three storey house, has been told by the committee that administers the place that she is legally obliged to have a fire door on the entry to her flat. It seems from what I have seen online that the communal front door does indeed need to be a fire door, but it seems there is no legal requirement to have a fire door on the door to your flat, if it is not shared.

Any one know the facts on this?

Thanks

Yes should be 30 min fire rated. So 44mm solid core door, solid wood frame, intumescent smoke and fire seals. Party walls that seperate the flat should be 1hr Fire Rated. Also all penetrations should be fire stopped.

If not in place and it was my daughter, I’ll sort ASAP.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

I was about to reply, when my wife just found an interesting article about the above, she may post up later. However, yes as above you need to have a door that meets certain standards. This is due to multiple fires in building where smoke and fire spread too easily, causing loss of life that was clearly preventable.

 

[mikeyjh]

This place is such a font of knowledge I thought I’d ask. My daughter, who lives in a flat in an old three storey house, has been told by the committee that administers the place that she is legally obliged to have a fire door on the entry to her flat. It seems from what I have seen online that the communal front door does indeed need to be a fire door, but it seems there is no legal requirement to have a fire door on the door to your flat, if it is not shared.

Any one know the facts on this?

Thanks

Think about it this way, legal requirement or not, fire door could save her life - She may be the most safety conscious fire wary person in the world, the person across the halway may be a drug crazed, candle loving arsonist, I'd get one put in....

 

[Pickles]

Yes should be 30 min fire rated. So 44mm solid core door, solid wood frame, intumescent smoke and fire seals. Party walls that seperate the flat should be 1hr Fire Rated. Also all penetrations should be fire stopped.

If not in place and it was my daughter, I’ll sort ASAP.

Just had some fitted where I live. Another big thing is that must have 3 hinges.

 

[LVGull]

Think about it this way, legal requirement or not, fire door could save her life - She may be the most safety conscious fire wary person in the world, the person across the halway may be a drug crazed, candle loving arsonist, I'd get one put in....

It’s not just about the door, it’s the whole build up including partition walls (party walls), and penetrations through these walls.

 

[LVGull]

Just had some fitted where I live. Another big thing is that must have 3 hinges.

Yes 3 fire certified 4” hinges.

 

[beorhthelm]

It’s not just about the door, it’s the whole build up including partition walls (party walls), and penetrations through these walls.

does the wall regulation apply retrospectively? 10's of thousands of flats in converted buildings wont be up to spec, or more to the point certified as such.

 

[GT49er]

Surely the requirement to provide all this would have been part of the planning permission when the house was converted to flats? So wouldn't the responsibility lie with the developers, not the tenants?

 

[Triggaaar]

My daughter, who lives in a flat in an old three storey house

Is she the owner, or is it rented?

 

[Pickles]

Surely the requirement to provide all this would have been part of the planning permission when the house was converted to flats? So wouldn't the responsibility lie with the developers, not the tenants?

I spoke to the council lady about this, who did the inspecting. It's all about how many people live as different 'households' in a building, amongst other things.
She also said they're really all over this now because of Grenfell towers.

 

[mikeyjh]

Surely the requirement to provide all this would have been part of the planning permission when the house was converted to flats? So wouldn't the responsibility lie with the developers, not the tenants?

That's definitely the question I'll be asking, as the fire is licking around my hairy arse fleeing out of the nearest window.

 

[GT49er]

That's definitely the question I'll be asking, as the fire is licking around my hairy arse fleeing out of the nearest window.

Yes, but as a person with common sense, I am asking the question before that happens.

 

[mikeyjh]

Yes, but as a person with common sense, I am asking the question before that happens.

I know, I was being glib. Sorry.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

does the wall regulation apply retrospectively? 10's of thousands of flats in converted buildings wont be up to spec, or more to the point certified as such.

I believe 187 flats on our estate and all were legally required to change the doors to meet the fire standards set up to prevent loss of life. Even the one set of flats with open walkways.

 

[Icy Gull]

Is she the owner, or is it rented?

Owner and has the flat on the market so is reluctant to spend money unless she has to but obviously will if she stays.

 

[Triggaaar]

Owner and has the flat on the market so is reluctant to spend money unless she has to but obviously will if she stays.

Is the previous owner responsible for selling something they shouldn't have? When was the flat converted, what were the requirements then, and if there's a law that they changes have to be retrofitted, when did that come in? (I know you don't know all the answers, but fill in what you can)

 

[Icy Gull]

Is the previous owner responsible for selling something they shouldn't have? When was the flat converted, what were the requirements then, and if there's a law that they changes have to be retrofitted, when did that come in? (I know you don't know all the answers, but fill in what you can)

I have no idea but I get the impression that this is an aftermath of Grenfell as I cannot see anywhere that it is a legal requirement to have fire doors on your flat door unless it is a purpose built block of flats, hence my starting the thread. She has a friend who is a fireman and apparently it is the Fire Brigade who make the recommendations anyway. She is waiting for him to respond.

Thanks to all those that have responded to my initial post.

 

[beorhthelm]

I believe 187 flats on our estate and all were legally required to change the doors to meet the fire standards set up to prevent loss of life. Even the one set of flats with open walkways.

changing doors is one thing, changing partition walls is another. previously regulations have not applied retrospectively, i.e. if you have an older property you dont have to have a Part P consumer unit* but if you change it or have new electrics you have to comply with new regs. so if you have an older conversion do the current regs apply retrospectively. i suppose its along the lines of the OP point, are there really legal requirements to retrofit doors? it may be idea to change the door, but if the fire is going to go through the 6" wide stud wall or floor shared with your neighbour, its bit pointless.

* or maybe you do for rental? we have odd regulations that apply to rental but not to owner occupied.

 

[Triggaaar]

I have no idea but I get the impression that this is an aftermath of Grenfell

Can't be, legislation wouldn't come in that quickly. I had a flat in Hove in the 90s, and because a high-up member of the council had lost his daughter in a fire (I think), the rules in B&H were quite strict - we had to have an expensive alarm system retro fitted. I'm surprised it doesn't already have a fire door though.

as I cannot see anywhere that it is a legal requirement to have fire doors on your flat door unless it is a purpose built block of flats, hence my starting the thread.

Indeed. If selling, don't worry unless someone can show you it's a requirement for it to be retrofitted (different for new conversions).