Financial restrictions at the Albion hampering the playing budget?

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I'm not on a wind up. I got off my arse and dug out the accounts from 2011 from Companies House and then summarised them on NSC.

I was surprised at the time that there were no comments from the club about the finances on either seagulls.co.uk (apologies if I missed them BTW) or the Argus.

The success of the Amex in terms of bringing money in has been a revelation, but we need to contextualise things. 22,000 season tickets at an average of £350 (remember the ST price includes VAT, so you have to net that off from the price paid to arrive at the figure received by the club, and then take into account the lower fees paid by concessions) each brings in £7.7 million, add in extras from 1901'ers, corporates and away fans adds let us say another £3 million. The TV deal for the Championship is about another £2 million, giving a total of £13 million in total. Even if with some sponsorship and allied revenue stream we are probably looking at £15 mill max.

Then compare this to a club who has just been relegated from the Premiership, who has a parachute payment of £18 million in the first season, and then £9 million for each of the next two seasons, and it clearly knocks the Albion's negotiating position into a cocked hat.

I'm not being critical of anyone, just trying to look at things from an analytical perspective only.

Good man El Pres.

We can't/are not prepared to compete on wages with clubs who may have far higher revenues than us. So it should be.

The club is in good hands and that suits me fine, wherever that takes us, and whatever division we are in.

These are the greatest of days for our club.

 

[magoo]

I'm quite happy not to break the bank buying players we can't afford.

And call me naive but I would be surprised if the Amex made a profit in it's first season considering the amount of money we lost while at Withdean.

 

[SWCspider-man]

Maybe this is why David Barber was brought in, reading about him it seems to be that he is the king Midas of football.

 

[BensGrandad]

Should we not be pointing a finger at the rail companies over the non payment of travel it was obvious that the station staff could not control the numbers of people going through the gates or inspect travel vouchers. That was not a fault by the club and had the station staff enforced this by whatever means people wouldn't have travelled for free and either would have given the club more money for travel vouchers or bought more tickets. I know that checking tickets etc takes time but is it the station staffs fault if people arrive late and are held up in a queue. Understandably effort was placed on getting people on trains to and from the stadium and inevitably that meant certain people took advantage of this.

Another simple generation of revenue would have been for the club to have ran the catering and kiosks as an offshoot company themselves rather than franchise it out to a catering company,thus only receiving a fee or rental .

 

[Basil Fawlty]

I've been thinking this for a while. I think we're getting priced out by other clubs, in terms of Wages and other such demands. But we won't be held to ransom by any player coming or signing a new improved contract. We'll never go back to the old days, of this happening and I for one am glad. Even through I do agree, that it is time that the UEFA and Fifa put a Salary Cap in Football, for this to stop happening!

 

[Eddiespearritt]

It's Paul Barber - and if he is King Midas why go from the FA (where very big commercial deals were possible) to Spurs under the complications of working for Levy - to the outpost of Vancouver Whitecaps. Seems like a career path in reverse. Clearly the only reason the job was available was because the previous MD / CEO were hustled very quickly out of the door.

TB has said publicly that he has had to write bigger personal cheques than he anticipated.

On the subject of stewards and matchday staff I doubt very if they are at levels insisted upon by regualtory bodies - the number of people standing arounf to direct you are admirable but way in advance of what is necessary. The contracts for these services must be debilitating financially.

I for one would be delighted if the club is run in future on financially sustainable grounds and that our objectives are realistic. Over-extending to reach the promised land has been the downfall of many in the past - and more will go the same way in the future. We should support the team - and the principle of common sense management and the right principles.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

I'm not on a wind up. I got off my arse and dug out the accounts from 2011 from Companies House and then summarised them on NSC.

I was surprised at the time that there were no comments from the club about the finances on either seagulls.co.uk (apologies if I missed them BTW) or the Argus.

The success of the Amex in terms of bringing money in has been a revelation, but we need to contextualise things. 22,000 season tickets at an average of £350 (remember the ST price includes VAT, so you have to net that off from the price paid to arrive at the figure received by the club, and then take into account the lower fees paid by concessions) each brings in £7.7 million, add in extras from 1901'ers, corporates and away fans adds let us say another £3 million. The TV deal for the Championship is about another £2 million, giving a total of £13 million in total. Even if with some sponsorship and allied revenue stream we are probably looking at £15 mill max.

Then compare this to a club who has just been relegated from the Premiership, who has a parachute payment of £18 million in the first season, and then £9 million for each of the next two seasons, and it clearly knocks the Albion's negotiating position into a cocked hat.

I'm not being critical of anyone, just trying to look at things from an analytical perspective only.

This type of analysis is accurate. It is obviously very expensive competing at the top end of the Championship and obviously unsustainable without promotion to the Premier League or massive subsidy from investors. This is why the aim is promotion - Reading, Southampton and West Ham were successful last year.

Nothing is guaranteed for ever. Outside the top handful of gold-plated clubs then football clubs will cycle through peak and trough.

We are currently riding a wave of success thanks to the investment of a very, very rich lifelong Albion fan. Money is being spent not just on players (ala Pompey, Leeds, Palace, etc) but on some very wise foundations for the future. It is not irresponsible as a fan to, at the moment, sit back and enjoy it.

 

[El Presidente]

Whilst stewarding might be a visible expense that people are querying, again let us put it in context.

If the Albion get rid of 50 stewards. Then the total annual saving would be (assuming a wage of £8 an hour and a six hour shift for 25 matches)..............£60,000.

 

[Ernest]

Should we not be pointing a finger at the rail companies over the non payment of travel it was obvious that the station staff could not control the numbers of people going through the gates or inspect travel vouchers. That was not a fault by the club and had the station staff enforced this by whatever means people wouldn't have travelled for free and either would have given the club more money for travel vouchers or bought more tickets.

I know that checking tickets etc takes time but is it the station staffs fault if people arrive late and are held up in a queue. Understandably effort was placed on getting people on trains to and from the stadium and inevitably that meant certain people took advantage of this.

Another simple generation of revenue would have been for the club to have ran the catering and kiosks as an offshoot company themselves rather than franchise it out to a catering company,thus only receiving a fee or rental .

You answer your own questions. Southern were getting paid so no revenue to protect and far better to keep the trains and queues moving than to check tickets as they assumed and were told by the club that everyone had vouchers. Blame the people who decided that they wouldn't pay, nothing to stop anyone simply buying a ticket to Falmer if they hadn't got one but many decided they would rather travel free and become a drain on the clubs finances.

 

[somerset]

I'm quite happy not to break the bank buying players we can't afford.

And call me naive but I would be surprised if the Amex made a profit in it's first season considering the amount of money we lost while at Withdean.

Has it been mentioned, that last year the club said that all its financial forecasts had been based on revenue derived from an average break even figure of 12k..... now we obviously did a bit better than that, by 66% more or less,...... does it not follow then that it would take a massive deviation from forecast figures for this club to be financially unstable........ at least from the effects of last season if taken in isolation.

 

[Ernest]

Whilst stewarding might be a visible expense that people are querying, again let us put it in context.

If the Albion get rid of 50 stewards. Then the total annual saving would be (assuming a wage of £8 an hour and a six hour shift for 25 matches)..............£60,000.

How much to get rid of the all the hangers on and lap dogs who have had jobs created for them over the years ?

 

[Don Quixote]

We've got to gamble, spend big, to get into the premier league for the money.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

You answer your own questions. Southern were getting paid so no revenue to protect and far better to keep the trains and queues moving than to check tickets as they assumed and were told by the club that everyone had vouchers. Blame the people who decided that they wouldn't pay, nothing to stop anyone simply buying a ticket to Falmer if they hadn't got one but many decided they would rather travel free and become a drain on the clubs finances.

But how does the money from the ticket sales make it to the Club- how do Southern know how many people bough tickets to Falmer for the reason of going to the football against which to discount whatever they charge the Club?

 

[Pavilionaire]

I can't conceive that food, drink or merchandise sales in 2011/12 were any LESS than budgeted. The evidence would seem to suggest we rode the wave of our early season good form and the feel-good factor persisted throughout the season. Therefore, in terms of revenue we must have exceeded expectation.

Costs is altogether different. I wonder about transport, policing and stewarding, and can see that these might have ended up higher than anticipated.

 

[El Presidente]

How much to get rid of the all the hangers on and lap dogs who have had jobs created for them over the years ?

.........and what about the cup final money from '83?

Knight OUT!

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

We've got to gamble, spend big, to get into the premier league for the money.

Do you work for Palace or Portsmouth ?

 

[El Presidente]

I can't conceive that food, drink or merchandise sales in 2011/12 were any LESS than budgeted. The evidence would seem to suggest we rode the wave of our early season good form and the feel-good factor persisted throughout the season. Therefore, in terms of revenue we must have exceeded expectation.

Costs is altogether different. I wonder about transport, policing and stewarding, and can see that these might have ended up higher than anticipated.

I agree with you totally on the revenue side of things, but the mutterings I have heard have specifically been in relation to cost overruns.

 

[Ernest]

.........and what about the cup final money from '83?

Knight OUT!

It is a SCANDAL

 

[Ernest]

But how does the money from the ticket sales make it to the Club- how do Southern know how many people bough tickets to Falmer for the reason of going to the football against which to discount whatever they charge the Club?

I mean the vouchers when you buy your match ticket, and season ticket holders not buying their book of vouchers thinking they would travel free once they realised there were no ticket checks

 

[matt]

Any chance this is the real reason for Ken Brown's departure?

Every chance.