FIFA Poppy Fine

[Herr Tubthumper]

Here's an interesting view which has been articulated well.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...red-fifa-over-poppies-could-have-been-avoided

"Home countries’ FAs seeing red over poppies could have been avoided"

 

[wellquickwoody]

Getting tired of football and it's mawkish commemoration of nearly EVERY tragedy, big and small, local, national, international...and soon galactic no doubt. Absolutely meaningless unless got something to do with THAT team.

Have to agree. In this instance we should have had a minutes silence pre match, lain a wreath on the centre circle perhaps, and then got on with the game. Commemorating would have been both done, and seen to be done, without the oh so modern need to draw attention to how much it means to those involved. Anyway......

 

[wellquickwoody]

Is, of course, the right answer, I will be very disappointed of these fines are payed.

Paid, paid.

 

[rippleman]

Don't pay it.

That FIFA moron clearly understands NOTHING about the poppy. How can the cretin claim that it is a "political symbol"? How can the meathead claim it is religious? Breathtaking ignorance.

Those of any religion - or none, those across the political spectrum (or with no political views), choose to wear the poppy.

I really hope the FA tells them to get stuffed but let's face it, an organisation that only bans a player for 5 games for racism is going to rollover when it comes to FIFA. The FA needs to get rid of the "blazers" who are making us a laughing stock and get people in to run the game who have a slight clue what they are doing.

 

[Easy 10]

I'm so weary of the trend that football has to be seen as some kind of moral flagship these days, and this whole poppy binfest is symptomatic of the mawkishness that has swept over our game. You can barely start a match now without there being a minutes silence for something, or someone. QPR v Villa had the kickoff delayed while everyone stood round the centre circle "in memory of the loss of people connected with the clubs this year" - I mean come on.

Purchasing and wearing a poppy is a personal choice. It doesn't need to be arbitrarily embroidered onto a players football shirt once a year, or stuck on an armband, because that defeats the object. I don't need to see Albion or England players sporting poppies on their shirts, or observe (ANOTHER) minutes silence before kickoff, because I've already got my own poppy, and I've already done a silence on 11/11 at 11. So why again, when I go to a cuffing football match ? Seriously, whats football got to do with it ?

Its all about gesture politics these days. Being publically SEEN to be paying tribute. Its tiresome and unnecessary. The FA, as usual, are just grandstanding to us now, as they continue to bicker with the eternal arch-villains FIFA over this thing. We didn't need poppies on the shirts in the first place IMO, so I couldn't give a stuff about the fine. They were warned beforehand. So just pay up and shut up ffs, then we can all move on with our lives.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Wouldn't the simple answer to this be that FIFA just makes sure that the international fixtures weekend never fails on 11/11 (or within a few days of it) but rather have this round of fixtures played later in the month or season instead (making it less stop / start at the beginning of the season for club teams too as an added bonus)

This game wasn't the first to be held on this anniversary and they too were marked by the wearing of poppies and the FA were fined then too.

This year the game fell on quite a big anniversary (100 years since the battle of the Somme and the mass loss of life that brought) so of course it's going to be marked by people in some way. Why did FIFA then schedule a match for this date when they knew that this was likely? and the whole situation easy to avoid

 

[spring hall convert]

Wouldn't the simple answer to this be that FIFA just makes sure that the international fixtures weekend never fails on 11/11 (or within a few days of it) but rather have this round of fixtures played later in the month or season instead (making it less stop / start at the beginning of the season for club teams too as an added bonus)

Where does that stop? FIFA moves the fixtures at our behest and it opens it up other associations making their own demands.

I'm far from in FIFA's corner but there's something individual to the home nations that we seem to think we're some sort of special case. There's 200 odd other members as well.

 

[goldstone]

I'm so weary of the trend that football has to be seen as some kind of moral flagship these days, and this whole poppy binfest is symptomatic of the mawkishness that has swept over our game. You can barely start a match now without there being a minutes silence for something, or someone. QPR v Villa had the kickoff delayed while everyone stood round the centre circle "in memory of the loss of people connected with the clubs this year" - I mean come on.

Purchasing and wearing a poppy is a personal choice. It doesn't need to be arbitrarily embroidered onto a players football shirt once a year, or stuck on an armband, because that defeats the object. I don't need to see Albion or England players sporting poppies on their shirts, or observe (ANOTHER) minutes silence before kickoff, because I've already got my own poppy, and I've already done a silence on 11/11 at 11. So why again, when I go to a cuffing football match ? Seriously, whats football got to do with it ?

Its all about gesture politics these days. Being publically SEEN to be paying tribute. Its tiresome and unnecessary. The FA, as usual, are just grandstanding to us now, as they continue to bicker with the eternal arch-villains FIFA over this thing. We didn't need poppies on the shirts in the first place IMO, so I couldn't give a stuff about the fine. They were warned beforehand. So just pay up and shut up ffs, then we can all move on with our lives.

Well said that man. You have summarised the whole nonsensical situation beautifully.

 

[portlock seagull]

I'm so weary of the trend that football has to be seen as some kind of moral flagship these days, and this whole poppy binfest is symptomatic of the mawkishness that has swept over our game. You can barely start a match now without there being a minutes silence for something, or someone. QPR v Villa had the kickoff delayed while everyone stood round the centre circle "in memory of the loss of people connected with the clubs this year" - I mean come on.

Purchasing and wearing a poppy is a personal choice. It doesn't need to be arbitrarily embroidered onto a players football shirt once a year, or stuck on an armband, because that defeats the object. I don't need to see Albion or England players sporting poppies on their shirts, or observe (ANOTHER) minutes silence before kickoff, because I've already got my own poppy, and I've already done a silence on 11/11 at 11. So why again, when I go to a cuffing football match ? Seriously, whats football got to do with it ?

Its all about gesture politics these days. Being publically SEEN to be paying tribute. Its tiresome and unnecessary. The FA, as usual, are just grandstanding to us now, as they continue to bicker with the eternal arch-villains FIFA over this thing. We didn't need poppies on the shirts in the first place IMO, so I couldn't give a stuff about the fine. They were warned beforehand. So just pay up and shut up ffs, then we can all move on with our lives.

This is the unabridged version of mine earlier (!) but this this and this again. I know it represents huge numbers of people who wear a poppy with pride, feel sorry for whomever or whatever ill fate has befallen someone(s) somewhere on the planet at some point but really, I'm just going to carry on chatting through the next one we're asked to observe in memory of earthquake victims in Indonesia BECAUSE ITS GOT F UCK ALL TO DO WITH FOOTBALL! I already stopped clapping like a gormless seal when asked to do that for someone I've never met or heard of. It's just so utterly meaningless and when it is eg Alan Mullery or someone we're all connected to it's going to be meaningless then too because it'll be just another week in football and just another death. Footballs mawkishness has got to the point where people don't think, including those asking. It's become default to contact clubs and ask; or issue a mandate to the crowd regardless of where in the world or tenuous the link to football. Just stop it. I come to watch a game not to be corralled against my will into some meaningless cult like act. If you want that, it's called Church! Just as I don't expect to sit through a trailer of those we've lost so far this year from the world of entertainment each time I go to the cinema.

Enough is enough! It's got so infectious, it's even happening in the Power-chair League and other teams. Why does football think it's so important in this respect, beyond normal society conventions?

 

[Easy 10]

Well said that man. You have summarised the whole nonsensical situation beautifully.

Thanks. Still expecting a few pelters from those who think these gestures are welcome and necessary, as criticising anything to do with something as emotive as the poppy seems to bring out the outrage. But I honestly think FIFA have got it right on this, just maybe not for the right reasons. There is a time and a place for honouring our war dead and current armed forces, and every single one of us is perfectly capable of doing that in our own way, without it needing it to be while we just so happen to be attending a football match.

This is the unabridged version of mine earlier (!) but this this and this again. I know it represents huge numbers of people who wear a poppy with pride, feel sorry for whomever or whatever ill fate has befallen someone(s) somewhere on the planet at some point but really, I'm just going to carry on chatting through the next one we're asked to observe in memory of earthquake victims in Indonesia BECAUSE ITS GOT F UCK ALL TO DO WITH FOOTBALL! I already stopped clapping like a gormless seal when asked to do that for someone I've never met or heard of. It's just so utterly meaningless and when it is eg Alan Mullery or someone we're all connected to it's going to be meaningless then too because it'll be just another week in football and just another death. Footballs mawkishness has got to the point where people don't think, including those asking. It's become default to contact clubs and ask; or issue a mandate to the crowd regardless of where in the world or tenuous the link to football. Just stop it. I come to watch a game not to be corralled against my will into some meaningless cult like act. If you want that, it's called Church! Just as I don't expect to sit through a trailer of those we've lost so far this year from the world of entertainment each time I go to the cinema.

Enough is enough! It's got so infectious, it's even happening in the Power-chair League and other teams. Why does football think it's so important in this respect, beyond normal society conventions?

Couldn't agree more.
I'm not sure I would ever openly disrespect a minutes silence by chatting through it, but I agree with your point entirely. For want of a better phrase, its gotten to a point of overkill now. The whole idea of a minutes applause while a deceased fans picture appears on the screen in a "significant" minute is just weird to me. At some point the entire gesture will be royally hijacked by something happening on the pitch (a goal, a red card, a penalty), which will lead to all kinds of "do-we-don't-we-carry-on-clapping?" nonsense. Whatever happened to just popping a picture and a short obituary in the programme ?

 

[portlock seagull]

Thanks. Still expecting a few pelters from those who think these gestures are welcome and necessary, as criticising anything to do with something as emotive as the poppy seems to bring out the outrage. But I honestly think FIFA have got it right on this, just maybe not for the right reasons. There is a time and a place for honouring our war dead and current armed forces, and every single one of us is perfectly capable of doing that in our own way, without it needing it to be while we just so happen to be attending a football match.



Couldn't agree more.
I'm not sure I would ever openly disrespect a minutes silence by chatting through it, but I agree with your point entirely. For want of a better phrase, its gotten to a point of overkill now. The whole idea of a minutes applause while a deceased fans picture appears on the screen in a "significant" minute is just weird to me. At some point the entire gesture will be royally hijacked by something happening on the pitch (a goal, a red card, a penalty), which will lead to all kinds of "do-we-don't-we-carry-on-clapping?" nonsense. Whatever happened to just popping a picture and a short obituary in the programme ?

I didn't clap for some of the recent fans deaths. Not because didn't feel sorry for them or families but just because I wasn't aware of what was on the big screen because I was watching a game of football and had no idea until half way through / never heard of said person or knew there was an observation so didn't seem especially relevant. Many around be equally didn't, probably for same reason. It's just weird as you say. And when did we all start to join in these mass commermorations and under what criteria? Can I ask the same for my family and friends, if so we've a bit of a backlog as last two years have been terrible. I'll need at least 5 minutes worth of observations. Which game shall we KO at 3.05?

 

[Scotty Mac]

Wouldn't the simple answer to this be that FIFA just makes sure that the international fixtures weekend never fails on 11/11 (or within a few days of it) but rather have this round of fixtures played later in the month or season instead (making it less stop / start at the beginning of the season for club teams too as an added bonus)

This game wasn't the first to be held on this anniversary and they too were marked by the wearing of poppies and the FA were fined then too.

This year the game fell on quite a big anniversary (100 years since the battle of the Somme and the mass loss of life that brought) so of course it's going to be marked by people in some way. Why did FIFA then schedule a match for this date when they knew that this was likely? and the whole situation easy to avoid

Whenever they held it, the FA would want to mark it. Spurs had a minutes silence two weeks before Armistice Sunday for crying out loud

Because the FA want to be seen as an overly respectful organisation, if England's nearest game to November 11th was in mid October you know they'd still commemorate it

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Where does that stop? FIFA moves the fixtures at our behest and it opens it up other associations making their own demands.

I'm far from in FIFA's corner but there's something individual to the home nations that we seem to think we're some sort of special case. There's 200 odd other members as well.

When he fixtures come out for this countries leagues, there had been requests for certain dates to be avoided and to make sure things like fixtures being played away on a particular weekend.

How hard would i be for the various FA's to say which weekends hold significant meaning (be it remembrance, national day (such as independence or any other very significant date) and for them to use a similar system to avoid their playing fixtures near to sensitive dates like this? This is not about the home nations, as any national side could request certain dates are avoided for political or religious reasons.

Failure to take this into account when setting dates is only ever likely to lead to various FA's defying FIFA (not just the home nations) and ending up with a fine or points deduction from disciplinary proceedings when a little common sense could have easily avoided the situation

Regarding the poppies and the whole remembrance thing. If, say, they had played in September and / or February instead of November, then i would seriously doubt that any form of remembrance event would have been held at the games.

(and i still don't get how remembering those who died in war is religious or political)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm so weary of the trend that football has to be seen as some kind of moral flagship these days, and this whole poppy binfest is symptomatic of the mawkishness that has swept over our game. You can barely start a match now without there being a minutes silence for something, or someone. QPR v Villa had the kickoff delayed while everyone stood round the centre circle "in memory of the loss of people connected with the clubs this year" - I mean come on.

Purchasing and wearing a poppy is a personal choice. It doesn't need to be arbitrarily embroidered onto a players football shirt once a year, or stuck on an armband, because that defeats the object. I don't need to see Albion or England players sporting poppies on their shirts, or observe (ANOTHER) minutes silence before kickoff, because I've already got my own poppy, and I've already done a silence on 11/11 at 11. So why again, when I go to a cuffing football match ? Seriously, whats football got to do with it ?

Its all about gesture politics these days. Being publically SEEN to be paying tribute. Its tiresome and unnecessary. The FA, as usual, are just grandstanding to us now, as they continue to bicker with the eternal arch-villains FIFA over this thing. We didn't need poppies on the shirts in the first place IMO, so I couldn't give a stuff about the fine. They were warned beforehand. So just pay up and shut up ffs, then we can all move on with our lives.

Wales didn't have the poppy on their shirts or on an armband, but still got fined because supporters were wearing poppies.

 

[Eddiespearritt]

I'm also close to seeing FIFA's broader point of view on this issue - every country has been involved in wars and tragedies which need remembering but how does that translate to a football match as a vehicle every time. Also I'm confused by the growth of individual commemorations during matches for people that often many of us don't know.
However, I'd have more sympathy for FIFA if their moral scruples and indignation also covered the antics of the Russian regime (invading countries, bombing civilians to obliteration, state sponsored doping and murder) or the Qatari dependence on effectively slave labour living in appalling conditions to deliver a World Cup for FIFA. If FIFA want to stand up and be counted on minor policing issues great - but then do it for the really major issues too.

 

[spring hall convert]

How hard would i be for the various FA's to say which weekends hold significant meaning (be it remembrance, national day (such as independence or any other very significant date) and for them to use a similar system to avoid their playing fixtures near to sensitive dates like this? This is not about the home nations, as any national side could request certain dates are avoided for political or religious reasons.

Pretty hard I'd imagine for 211 international associations making demands some for genuine and some, I'd imagine, for frivolous reasons. Why make a difficult job harder?

(and i still don't get how remembering those who died in war is religious or political)

I'd go as far as to say in this country it isn't (though James McClean thought otherwise.) But that's not really the point. I can certainly imagine scenarios in countries that have far more tumultuous recent political histories than our own where it might be. Why should it be up to FIFA to adjudicate which of those is or isn't political? They'd only completely **** it up anyway.

We do think we are special cases. You don't have to look too far away from this island to find other nations with plenty of WW1 & 2 war dead to commemorate, yet they seem to manage it without all this fuss.

 

[spring hall convert]

Wales didn't have the poppy on their shirts or on an armband, but still got fined because supporters were wearing poppies.

Quite. I think FIFA could have helped themselves by distinguishing here.

"Football's governing body took action against the Football Association of Wales (FAW) because fans wore poppies in the stands and the armed forces held bunches of poppies at the side of the pitch."

From the BBC.

If it literally means supporters wearing their own individual poppies, this is insane. Is it referring more to one of those displays where every supporter is given a coloured card which when all displayed together reveals something? That's something that would have had to have been organised by the FA or stadium etc...

 

[Fred Oliver - Legend]

And so they should, should of been a lot more too,and a points deduction enough to not see us not qualify. Celebrating murderers is bad enough but having sport get dragged into it is wrong and has nothing to do with it. If you want to show your shamfulll support to war mongerers then do it privately and quietly.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

And so they should, should of been a lot more too,and a points deduction enough to not see us not qualify. Celebrating murderers is bad enough but having sport get dragged into it is wrong and has nothing to do with it. If you want to show your shamfulll support to war mongerers then do it privately and quietly.

Troll.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

And so they should, should of been a lot more too,and a points deduction enough to not see us not qualify. Celebrating murderers is bad enough but having sport get dragged into it is wrong and has nothing to do with it. If you want to show your shamfulll support to war mongerers then do it privately and quietly.