FFP latest predictions

[Mo Gosfield]

We paid a decent fee for Colunga, also small fees for Bergkamp and two young players one from Norway(now left) the other Latvia(not sure where he is) i believe

Totalling £1.35 million.

 

[Creaky]

Under current rules if a club loses £15 million over 3 years £6 million of that has to be funded by equity purchase and the club's debt increase by £9 million.

If I understand it correctly under the new rules there doesn't have to be any equity purchase and debt increases by £15 million

No wonder owners voted in favour of the changes!

Mad - FFP should be looking to reduce debt not making changes to allow yet more.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Ok

"Pathetic rubbishing"? I have just read back through this entire thread [MENTION=20]granny weatherwax[/MENTION], and there isn't a single post that "rubbishes" Bournemouth in any way, let alone pathetically. What I did see, though, were a number of well-observed posts about the size of Bournemouth's loss in their League 1 promotion season (a loss that even we have not managed to "achieve" in recent seasons!), and some posts raising very legitimate questions about the size (and sustainability) of Bournemouth's spending on players in the meantime (along with a poster claiming somewhat detailed knowledge of the remuneration of one member of the Bournemouth squad).

We won't know the full truth of Bournemouth's wage bill until their next accounts get published, but given that the opening post of this thread contains a link to an independent website that estimates that the Cherries will fall foul of the FFP regulations and are "very likely" to have a transfer embargo imposed, I think all the questions raised in this thread with regard to AFCB have been relevant, fair and pertinent.

It wasn't necessarily on this thread, there were other comments made over the last few weeks concerning Bournemouth. Sorry if I offended you

 

[Grombleton]

. To be fair he made some very good points. We seemed to be gripped with the delusion that because we have a shiny stadium and a chairman who is a fan, we somehow are owed premiership football. And this pathetic rubbishing of Bournemouth is really unwarranted. They are a good club, with a very good team and decent fans.

They deserve as much sucess as anyone does. Good luck to them.

In fact, I agree completely. I hate the delusion that surrounds our club over things like this. I just thought rgb was starting to get a bit upset

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I will be incredulous if Bournemouth, Middlesbrough, and Forest pass FFP.

It seems that Bolton and Birmingham are doomed to fail the test as well, but at least they don't visibly appear to have been splashing the cash around.

 

[Peter Grummit]

[MENTION=28828]rgb[/MENTION] - interesting comments from you on this thread. It is always informative to have a dialogue with supporters from other clubs, and I would like to raise a couple of points that I would love to hear your thoughts on. In that spirit, I will ignore the posturing that seemed to creep into your last post.

Firstly, I'm very intrigued what has caused your complete about-face with regard to AFCB meeting the FFP criteria. Back on January 14, on here, when you were asked how AFCB were doing in regard to FFP, and whether they were likely to be in-line, you stated:-



However, today you posted:-



What is the evidence you have that has caused this dramatic shift? It would seem that even your Chairman doesn't share your confidence. This is a report on the BBC back on May 6 - AFC Bournemouth: Jeff Mostyn hopes for Financial Fair Play change

A quote from the article:-



And one can understand his concern when you look at the detail of their finances from season 2012-13 (when promotion was won): AFCB's wage bill increased BY MORE THAN £7 MILLION to £11 million. Yes, the wage bill TRIPLED in one year!!! AFCB's revenue was ..... £5.2 million. Your wages alone were more than twice your revenue!!!

[Here is the link, from the Bournemouth Echo, for these numbers - AFC Bournemouth: Cherries post £15million losses]

There is no reason to believe the spending has been reigned in; Grabban had his contract renewed TWICE last season, in the space of two months. There is anecdotal evidence, on here, of at least some of the squad receiving inflated wages as a result of promotion.

Given that AFCB lost £15.3 million in 2012-13, and the maximum permissible loss in 2013-14 is £8 million, how the heck do you expect to bridge that gap?


I am also very bemused by this comment you made today:-



The facts: Albion have paid a transfer fee for precisely ONE foreign player, namely Leo Ulloa. He cost around £2 million in January 2013. He scored 26 goals in 58 appearances, and he was sold to Leicester City in July for £8 million (potentially rising to £10 million, with add-ons). It was fantastic business by the club, from both a footballing and a financial perspective. Of the other foreign players we have signed in recent years: Inigo Calderon is perhaps the most loved player (and club ambassador) since the days of Peter Ward; Andrea Orlandi was so popular that when he was released in the summer there were calls on here for a petition to have the club change it's mind; David Lopez, after a slow start in his first season, had such a successful second half of the campaign that supporters virtually demanded that he was re-signed in 2013; Bruno has been a first-team regular for 3 seasons and is one of the classiest players we have; and Vicente, although he spent nowhere near long enough on the pitch, provided probably the most compelling moments the Amex regulars have seen.
AFCB: In August last year you signed Tokelo Rantie, a striker, for a similar sum to that which Ulloa cost, on a four-year deal. So far, he has scored 5 goals in 41 appearances. I am not aware of any bids of £8 million for him.

So, when you look at both of our clubs, if you are going to accuse one of them of "spunking" money on foreign players, the evidence would very strongly suggest that it is not, in fact, Brighton and Hove Albion who are the guilty party.


Just to be clear: I have no axe to grind with Bournemouth fans. You have a team who are currently doing the business on the pitch, and you deserve to enjoy it while it lasts. But you and I both know that AFCB's spending is significantly in excess of their revenue, and that they are almost certainly going to fail to meet the FFP criteria. I hope you are prepared for whatever consequences might follow as a result of that.

Who says all message boards are full of knee-jerk drivel! Great research and argument. [MENTION=28828]rgb[/MENTION] appears to have left the building....

PG

 

[lancyclaret]

[MENTION=28828]rgb[/MENTION] - interesting comments from you on this thread. It is always informative to have a dialogue with supporters from other clubs, and I would like to raise a couple of points that I would love to hear your thoughts on. In that spirit, I will ignore the posturing that seemed to creep into your last post.

Firstly, I'm very intrigued what has caused your complete about-face with regard to AFCB meeting the FFP criteria. Back on January 14, on here, when you were asked how AFCB were doing in regard to FFP, and whether they were likely to be in-line, you stated:-



However, today you posted:-



What is the evidence you have that has caused this dramatic shift? It would seem that even your Chairman doesn't share your confidence. This is a report on the BBC back on May 6 - AFC Bournemouth: Jeff Mostyn hopes for Financial Fair Play change

A quote from the article:-



And one can understand his concern when you look at the detail of their finances from season 2012-13 (when promotion was won): AFCB's wage bill increased BY MORE THAN £7 MILLION to £11 million. Yes, the wage bill TRIPLED in one year!!! AFCB's revenue was ..... £5.2 million. Your wages alone were more than twice your revenue!!!

[Here is the link, from the Bournemouth Echo, for these numbers - AFC Bournemouth: Cherries post £15million losses]

There is no reason to believe the spending has been reigned in; Grabban had his contract renewed TWICE last season, in the space of two months. There is anecdotal evidence, on here, of at least some of the squad receiving inflated wages as a result of promotion.

Given that AFCB lost £15.3 million in 2012-13, and the maximum permissible loss in 2013-14 is £8 million, how the heck do you expect to bridge that gap?


I am also very bemused by this comment you made today:-



The facts: Albion have paid a transfer fee for precisely ONE foreign player, namely Leo Ulloa. He cost around £2 million in January 2013. He scored 26 goals in 58 appearances, and he was sold to Leicester City in July for £8 million (potentially rising to £10 million, with add-ons). It was fantastic business by the club, from both a footballing and a financial perspective. Of the other foreign players we have signed in recent years: Inigo Calderon is perhaps the most loved player (and club ambassador) since the days of Peter Ward; Andrea Orlandi was so popular that when he was released in the summer there were calls on here for a petition to have the club change it's mind; David Lopez, after a slow start in his first season, had such a successful second half of the campaign that supporters virtually demanded that he was re-signed in 2013; Bruno has been a first-team regular for 3 seasons and is one of the classiest players we have; and Vicente, although he spent nowhere near long enough on the pitch, provided probably the most compelling moments the Amex regulars have seen.
AFCB: In August last year you signed Tokelo Rantie, a striker, for a similar sum to that which Ulloa cost, on a four-year deal. So far, he has scored 5 goals in 41 appearances. I am not aware of any bids of £8 million for him.

So, when you look at both of our clubs, if you are going to accuse one of them of "spunking" money on foreign players, the evidence would very strongly suggest that it is not, in fact, Brighton and Hove Albion who are the guilty party.


Just to be clear: I have no axe to grind with Bournemouth fans. You have a team who are currently doing the business on the pitch, and you deserve to enjoy it while it lasts. But you and I both know that AFCB's spending is significantly in excess of their revenue, and that they are almost certainly going to fail to meet the FFP criteria. I hope you are prepared for whatever consequences might follow as a result of that.

Fantastic post and research, Sir. I am a Burnley fan but have followed the FFP saga avidly - like Brighton, the Clarets tried hard to comply with the rules.

It amazes me when clubs like Forest, Middlesbrough and Bournemouth appear to have deliberately flouted the rules yet look like escaping transfer embargo punishments.

Both Bourrnemouth and Boro - ironically the current top two in the Championship - are both confidently claiming they will PASS the FFP rules but frankly I don't see how considering their wage bills are far in excess of their turnover.

It will be a travesty if these two teams are promoted at the expense of teams like the Seagulls, Ipswich, Huddersfield etc, who have stuck to the rules.

Is their any hope that Comrade Maximillian, Bournemouth's Russian owner, might get his assets "frozen" if he is found to have association with Vladimir Putin?

 

[AZ Gull]

Sorry if I offended you

 

[SAC]

Fantastic post and research, Sir. I am a Burnley fan but have followed the FFP saga avidly - like Brighton, the Clarets tried hard to comply with the rules.

It amazes me when clubs like Forest, Middlesbrough and Bournemouth appear to have deliberately flouted the rules yet look like escaping transfer embargo punishments.

Both Bourrnemouth and Boro - ironically the current top two in the Championship - are both confidently claiming they will PASS the FFP rules but frankly I don't see how considering their wage bills are far in excess of their turnover.

It will be a travesty if these two teams are promoted at the expense of teams like the Seagulls, Ipswich, Huddersfield etc, who have stuck to the rules.

Is their any hope that Comrade Maximillian, Bournemouth's Russian owner, might get his assets "frozen" if he is found to have association with Vladimir Putin?

Remember that many clubs didn't meet FFP (or flouted the rules) in year one but no one minded as there were no punishments. If a club is prepared to take their punishment, does it matter if they don't meet FFP?

 

[lancyclaret]

Remember that many clubs didn't meet FFP (or flouted the rules) in year one but no one minded as there were no punishments. If a club is prepared to take their punishment, does it matter if they don't meet FFP?

But which clubs are accepting punishments (embargoes) - they all seem to be trying to wriggle off the hook by voting to change the rules and using "creative accounting"/"cooking the books"/"bending the rules"....or downright "cheating".

Take your pick !!!!

 

[SAC]

But which clubs are accepting punishments (embargoes) - they all seem to be trying to wriggle off the hook by voting to change the rules and using "creative accounting"/"cooking the books"/"bending the rules"....or downright "cheating".

Take your pick !!!!

They will certainly try. It's difficult to say too much before the accounts have been published and the punishments handed out though. I don't think Burnley have anything to worry about, seem to be very well run and not spunking all of the PL money which will make them a difficult club to compete with if you are relegated.

 

[lancyclaret]

Back in the Championship next season, at least Burnley's directors won't be able to use the FFP rules as an excuse to spend NO money (like they did in 2012/13 & 2013/14).

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Back in the Championship next season, at least Burnley's directors won't be able to use the FFP rules as an excuse to spend NO money (like they did in 2012/13 & 2013/14).

I did look at Burnley's published accounts last year and didn't you buy back Turf Moor and your training ground in 2012/13? Isn't your Board's underlying philosophy to break even and that was the driver behind the sales of JR and CA in recent years, even though you were in receipt of parachute payments at the time?

 

[Mackenzie]

[MENTION=28828]rgb[/MENTION] - interesting comments from you on this thread. It is always informative to have a dialogue with supporters from other clubs, and I would like to raise a couple of points that I would love to hear your thoughts on. In that spirit, I will ignore the posturing that seemed to creep into your last post.

Firstly, I'm very intrigued what has caused your complete about-face with regard to AFCB meeting the FFP criteria. Back on January 14, on here, when you were asked how AFCB were doing in regard to FFP, and whether they were likely to be in-line, you stated:-



However, today you posted:-



What is the evidence you have that has caused this dramatic shift? It would seem that even your Chairman doesn't share your confidence. This is a report on the BBC back on May 6 - AFC Bournemouth: Jeff Mostyn hopes for Financial Fair Play change

A quote from the article:-



And one can understand his concern when you look at the detail of their finances from season 2012-13 (when promotion was won): AFCB's wage bill increased BY MORE THAN £7 MILLION to £11 million. Yes, the wage bill TRIPLED in one year!!! AFCB's revenue was ..... £5.2 million. Your wages alone were more than twice your revenue!!!

[Here is the link, from the Bournemouth Echo, for these numbers - AFC Bournemouth: Cherries post £15million losses]

There is no reason to believe the spending has been reigned in; Grabban had his contract renewed TWICE last season, in the space of two months. There is anecdotal evidence, on here, of at least some of the squad receiving inflated wages as a result of promotion.

Given that AFCB lost £15.3 million in 2012-13, and the maximum permissible loss in 2013-14 is £8 million, how the heck do you expect to bridge that gap?


I am also very bemused by this comment you made today:-



The facts: Albion have paid a transfer fee for precisely ONE foreign player, namely Leo Ulloa. He cost around £2 million in January 2013. He scored 26 goals in 58 appearances, and he was sold to Leicester City in July for £8 million (potentially rising to £10 million, with add-ons). It was fantastic business by the club, from both a footballing and a financial perspective. Of the other foreign players we have signed in recent years: Inigo Calderon is perhaps the most loved player (and club ambassador) since the days of Peter Ward; Andrea Orlandi was so popular that when he was released in the summer there were calls on here for a petition to have the club change it's mind; David Lopez, after a slow start in his first season, had such a successful second half of the campaign that supporters virtually demanded that he was re-signed in 2013; Bruno has been a first-team regular for 3 seasons and is one of the classiest players we have; and Vicente, although he spent nowhere near long enough on the pitch, provided probably the most compelling moments the Amex regulars have seen.
AFCB: In August last year you signed Tokelo Rantie, a striker, for a similar sum to that which Ulloa cost, on a four-year deal. So far, he has scored 5 goals in 41 appearances. I am not aware of any bids of £8 million for him.

So, when you look at both of our clubs, if you are going to accuse one of them of "spunking" money on foreign players, the evidence would very strongly suggest that it is not, in fact, Brighton and Hove Albion who are the guilty party.


Just to be clear: I have no axe to grind with Bournemouth fans. You have a team who are currently doing the business on the pitch, and you deserve to enjoy it while it lasts. But you and I both know that AFCB's spending is significantly in excess of their revenue, and that they are almost certainly going to fail to meet the FFP criteria. I hope you are prepared for whatever consequences might follow as a result of that.

[MENTION=28828]rgb[/MENTION]

OWNED.

 

[rgb]

Little update for you chaps:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30169243

The relevant part :-
'...... Mostyn also says the club are in line to meet the requirements of the new Financial Fair Play rules when they are audited in December,

The Cherries posted a £15.3m loss for the 2012-13 promotion season but Mostyn says that should not be confused as debt and that they have managed to balance the books since that figure was revealed in May.

"We've done it by a combination of commercial and player sales," added Mostyn.

"One of the criticisms that people have directed at it is that we are a big spending club. It couldn't be further from the truth. There was a recent article in a Cardiff newspaper that showed us to be one of the lowest spending clubs. Fans would say if you have £15m worth of debt then how can you sustain Financial Fair Play?

"First of all we haven't got any debt, let me make that absolutely clear. The fact we posted a £15m loss is totally different to debt. This is equity put into the football club, predominately by the owner.

He added: "That is permissible by Financial Fair Play and through a consequence of player sales and we were obviously extremely pleased with the (former Southampton midfielder) Adam Lallana transfer (of which Cherries received a portion) to Liverpool that has balanced the books.

"I remain absolutely confident that when our accounts are submitted to the Football League that we will meet the Financial Fair Play requirements for this year and not have a transfer embargo in January."

 

[nwgull]

Your owner doesn't seem to understand that the Championship FFP regs do not relate to debt; they relate to a max of 5m loss and a limit of 3m of equity is allowed to be put in to come to that figure (so effectively a loss limit of 8m).

Besides, what big bucks transfer sales did Bournemouth make in 13/14 anyway?

 

[rgb]

Surely the question is, what did AFCB spend on transfer purchases in 13/14?

 

[nwgull]

Surely the question is, what did AFCB spend on transfer purchases in 13/14?

Wages don't count then?

 

[nwgull]

Probably worth adding that the tone of the statements smack of someone pre-emptying the fact that they're going to struggle to meet the limits by bringing up stuff that is irrelevant to the 13/14 FFP limits: the Llallana sale and equity pumped in by the owner.

 

[rgb]

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/afc-bournemouth/alletransfers/verein/989

I know the figure quoted for Rantie in that link, is wrong (by quite a hefty chunk)

Again I will ask, please supply your source for knowing the AFCB wages by player?