[News] Farmers

[Weststander]

Any sympathy I may have had disappeared when Clarkson piled in!

How does that help genuine farmers?

Clarkson will remain wealthy beyond dreams.

 

[Eeyore]

Reeves took a hammer to crack a tax avoidance ‘nut’. Some say it’s spite against a non Labour cohort.

Discussed even on nsc pre budget. There are two types of rural landowner. Genuine farmers who own and farm the land, very often for generations. The land has significant value despite modest profits because rich folk or house builders want to buy it up. I’ve seen farmers accounts showing the modest profits, I doubt anyone else here has. Supermarkets have all the power.

Then wealthy tax avoiders such as Clarkson.

On future deaths both categories will be required to pay substantial IHT. Category 1 do not have the cash.

Requiring the selling up of land and businesses.

We know 2024 Brits don’t want to work crazy hours, pre Brexit we relied on harder working foreigners to do that, post pandemic millions including teens/20’s have said fck the rat rice I want to enjoy life.

So who’s going to replace the farmers selling up? In the mid to long term this will damage the fabric of our countryside, a load of non farming chancers will buy up land, scar it in furtive attempts to get planning for a home or three, we may well have to import more food.

Bizarrely this is ideological from the left. On NC’s phone on this a few weeks ago, a couple of callers said spitefully it’s payback for the farmers being quiet in the 1994 miners strike, another for challenging Labour on fuel prices in 2001. WTF! The internet has created a load of weirdos at both ends of the political spectrum.

This was my thought. Sitting on land worth £5m that has been an ongoing farm for generations, and still intends to be, then slapped with a £1m inheritance tax bill. I can see it from their perspective too. If they sell, fine. But there should be different rules for ongoing concerns.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm with the farmers on this.

Could you explain why, unlike everyone else, they should be able to pass on millions without paying inheritance tax?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Nicky Campbell's phone-in this morning is on farming.

There is a bus load of farmers on their way to London to protest against the introduction of some inheritance tax for farmers.

Crikey, what an entitled bunch.

They seem to have lived a simple life, with 'very little income' (some saying a few tens of thousands of pounds profit a year), but if their farm is worth more than three million pounds then, as a married couple, they will be liable to 20% inheritance tax (half what you and I pay), with this change coming in a couple of years, if they 'do nothing' to mitigate against the change.

Apparently farming is 'not a commercial business'. This means it is some sort of vocation, with little reward, that is offset by not having to think about anything, such as investment, saving, pensions and money in general.

And it's not fair.

Well, diddums.

A caller has pointed out that all that is needed is planning, but the farmers seem to think they shouldn't have to plan or think. OK, mates.

Final bleat: 'the government are taking away our way of life'. What did I do with that small onion I had in my pocket?

Clearly Harry you don't have any farmers in your family. I do and I can assure you it's not an easy existence - they get a pittance in 'profit' and their pay is far less than some townie medical lecturer with a gold plated pension

 

[Official Old Man]

I'm trying to keep up with this.
From what I understand, a farm owned by a couple will bring in an anual profit of £50K to £100K, for which they work hard.
But the value of the land will be around £5million, thus when they die and the kids take over, the kids have to pay 20% of the value. Let's say £1million tax due.
Now they can pay that over 10 years thus £100,000 a year. But that would be their entire profit gone.
Think that's how it is.
But, like anything, there are ways around this. Just needs a good accountant.

 

[clapham_gull]

How does that help genuine farmers?

Clarkson will remain wealthy beyond dreams.

It does appear not as best thought out as it could have been, but this is this Government at the moment. For balance I'd like them to go after the supermarkets as well.

To the above point, I'm not sure how Clarkson is helping, especially when his previous honest comments on why he bought his farm are included in much of the coverage.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Clueless

Harry or the government ? Or both ?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Reeves took a hammer to crack a tax avoidance ‘nut’. Some say it’s spite against a non Labour cohort.

Discussed even on nsc pre budget. There are two types of rural landowner. Genuine farmers who own and farm the land, very often for generations. The land has significant value despite modest profits because rich folk or house builders want to buy it up. I’ve seen farmers accounts showing the modest profits, I doubt anyone else here has. Supermarkets have all the power.

Then wealthy tax avoiders such as Clarkson.

On future deaths both categories will be required to pay substantial IHT. Category 1 do not have the cash.

Requiring the selling up of land and businesses.

We know 2024 Brits don’t want to work crazy hours, pre Brexit we relied on harder working foreigners to do that, post pandemic millions including teens/20’s have said fck the rat rice I want to enjoy life.

So who’s going to replace the farmers selling up? In the mid to long term this will damage the fabric of our countryside, a load of non farming chancers will buy up land, scar it in furtive attempts to get planning for a home or three, we may well have to import more food.

Bizarrely this is ideological from the left. On NC’s phone on this a few weeks ago, a couple of callers said spitefully it’s payback for the farmers being quiet in the 1984 miners strike, another for challenging Labour on fuel prices in 2001. WTF! The internet has created a load of weirdos at both ends of the political spectrum.

What I still fail to get my head around is why a genuine family business isn't already structured for succession planning.

I seem to be hearing that farmers don't want to operate as modern businesses, however with my limited agricultural knowledge, the successful dynamic farms are the ones embracing technology, social media, and the business model of farming. Even without the IHT issue, it would seem farmers are missing out on potential tax benefits of being LLPs or Limited Companies that their own industry press and advice appear to be telling them.

All this IHT is seemingly avoided if genuine farming families that wish their decedents to continue their farming are properly bought into the ownership of the business earlier, and rightly so too if they are due to manage and run the farm going forward.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

One on the box this morning claimed it’ll cost him £800k

So without get the abacus out that values his farm at £4 mil.

I’m struggling to side with him.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Could you explain why, unlike everyone else, they should be able to pass on millions without paying inheritance tax?

Somewhat depends if you want food on your table. A farm is a business and if farmers estates are forced to sell them to pay IHT then they will be either snapped up by big corporate farm businesses who care little about the environment & animal welfare and more about profits. Or the farms will get built on meaning having to import even more food and supermarket prices will go up.

 

[Is it PotG?]

One on the box this morning claimed it’ll cost him £800k

So without get the abacus out that values his farm at £4 mil.

I’m struggling to side with him.

In your opinion, how will the bill be paid?

 

[Peteinblack]

Environmentalists blocking roads to protest against Climate Change and over-reliance on cars > arrests and prison.

Farmers blocking roads to protest against Inheritance Tax > fawning and forelock-tugging.

A two-tier police and justice system.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Using a trust for succession planning in a farming family can be a practical and effective way to ensure the farm’s continued success and the fair distribution of assets among heirs.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Nicky Campbell's phone-in this morning is on farming.

There is a bus load of farmers on their way to London to protest against the introduction of some inheritance tax for farmers.

Crikey, what an entitled bunch.

They seem to have lived a simple life, with 'very little income' (some saying a few tens of thousands of pounds profit a year), but if their farm is worth more than three million pounds then, as a married couple, they will be liable to 20% inheritance tax (half what you and I pay), with this change coming in a couple of years, if they 'do nothing' to mitigate against the change.

Apparently farming is 'not a commercial business'. This means it is some sort of vocation, with little reward, that is offset by not having to think about anything, such as investment, saving, pensions and money in general.

And it's not fair.

Well, diddums.

A caller has pointed out that all that is needed is planning, but the farmers seem to think they shouldn't have to plan or think. OK, mates.

Final bleat: 'the government are taking away our way of life'. What did I do with that small onion I had in my pocket?

You seem to be very angry and confrontational lately, often closer to fishing and baiting arguments than I recognise from your older posts. Just saying...

 

[boik]

Reeves took a hammer to crack a tax avoidance ‘nut’. Some say it’s spite against a non Labour cohort.

Discussed even on nsc pre budget. There are two types of rural landowner. Genuine farmers who own and farm the land, very often for generations. The land has significant value despite modest profits because rich folk or house builders want to buy it up. I’ve seen farmers accounts showing the modest profits, I doubt anyone else here has. Supermarkets have all the power.

Then wealthy tax avoiders such as Clarkson.

On future deaths both categories will be required to pay substantial IHT. Category 1 do not have the cash.

Requiring the selling up of land and businesses.

We know 2024 Brits don’t want to work crazy hours, pre Brexit we relied on harder working foreigners to do that, post pandemic millions including teens/20’s have said fck the rat rice I want to enjoy life.

So who’s going to replace the farmers selling up? In the mid to long term this will damage the fabric of our countryside, a load of non farming chancers will buy up land, scar it in furtive attempts to get planning for a home or three, we may well have to import more food.

Bizarrely this is ideological from the left. On NC’s phone on this a few weeks ago, a couple of callers said spitefully it’s payback for the farmers being quiet in the 1984 miners strike, another for challenging Labour on fuel prices in 2001. WTF! The internet has created a load of weirdos at both ends of the political spectrum.

Surely the simple solution is that the tax only becomes payable when the farm is sold? No benefit for tax avoiders if they can't sell the land. No penalty for farmers who genuinely want to hand the farm down.

 

[AK74]

Given the existing suicide rate and mental health illness among those in the UK farming community, the impact of the IHT policy may have very troubling consequences.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I'm trying to keep up with this.
From what I understand, a farm owned by a couple will bring in an anual profit of £50K to £100K, for which they work hard.
But the value of the land will be around £5million, thus when they die and the kids take over, the kids have to pay 20% of the value. Let's say £1million tax due.
Now they can pay that over 10 years thus £100,000 a year. But that would be their entire profit gone.
Think that's how it is.
But, like anything, there are ways around this. Just needs a good accountant.

Also my understanding, the issue being if the working farm is handed down and continues to be a working farm then there isn’t the margin to repay over the allotted time.

Personally I think there should be an exemption if the farm land continues to be farmed as it’s needed , however if sold then a charge should be applied retrospectively

 

[Super Steve Earle]

One on the box this morning claimed it’ll cost him £800k

So without get the abacus out that values his farm at £4 mil.

I’m struggling to side with him.

Well he can't spend the £4m can he?

 

[DJ NOBO]

It’s a tough sell to convince joe public that this levy isn’t a rich person’s problem, and a marginal one at that.
Much like VAT on private school fees.
In both cases, I find myself asking “why was this legal tax dodge ever in place, and how has it lasted so long?”.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Clearly Harry you don't have any farmers in your family. I do and I can assure you it's not an easy existence - they get a pittance in 'profit' and their pay is far less than some townie medical lecturer with a gold plated pension

All things considered IHT on farms seems fair, and as far as I can tell it can be mitigated if they bring their businesses into the modern world.