FAO: Anyone who wishes to show their support to students...

[KneeOn]

Do f*** off-who the hell do you think funds your 'education' until you get yourself a job when you finally start paying back your loans? It certainly isn't you. Let me ask you one question: Are you happy to have 'blue collar' families fund your education while you swan through Uni until you graduate and then look down your nose at 'working class' people once you start earning more than them? If you want further education, pay for it yourselves because I'm not happy funding you-especially when I encounter little twats with 'attitude' like you.

I've since said sorry for an illthought out comment from frustration.

 

[Djmiles]

Yes, but there is a difference between not being able to find work and having too high expectations when you graduate in the first place. Many graduates won't look at work that could be done with an A-level qualification because its "below" them.

When you finish University and find you can't get a job because there are hundreds of other graduates going for the same one job, I think you'll quickly change your mind on going for jobs "below" you.

I got a degree and thought getting a job would be a piece of piss. 9 months later I found myself going for ANYTHING, and I'm still doing that same job today (albeit with a view to progessing to management next year).

 

[KneeOn]

Whats the point in them getting a bloody degree then?

Studying and getting a good degree gives you transferable skills and shows long term dedication. There is also cultural importance to such degrees.

 

[KneeOn]

When you finish University and find you can't get a job because there are hundreds of other graduates going for the same one job, I think you'll quickly change your mind on going for jobs "below" you.

I got a degree and thought getting a job would be a piece of piss. 9 months later I found myself going for ANYTHING, and I'm still doing that same job today (albeit with a view to progessing to management next year).

Sorry, not trying to have a go but is this misread everything i've said day?

I have gone through the "desperation of finding a job" phase and took one of the lowest paying jobs for my age. I know what its like to be desperate. I do not expect the job to walk to me and give me a car and a house after two minutes of graduating. That was my point but as you say, its late and i'm tired.

 

[Brian Potter]

Or, we've moved on with the times and have a new industry that with a bit of training can mean GB is on the forefront of new technology that will do everything from save lives, to make the world more connected socially, develop more platforms and use technology in ways that its not even been dreamed up of yet by those currently in the industry.

Sounds lovely and fluffy! However this (even if it was achieved) would only involve a very small minority of the top echelon of creative technical minds, and any such breakthrough would be swallowed up by the existing mega-corps so there would be no real net value to Britain apart from cudos as having come up with the idea.

 

[Djmiles]

Sorry, not trying to have a go but is this misread everything i've said day?

I have gone through the "desperation of finding a job" phase and took one of the lowest paying jobs for my age. I know what its like to be desperate. I do not expect the job to walk to me and give me a car and a house after two minutes of graduating. That was my point but as you say, its late and i'm tired.

I get the feeling I should have read the whole thread?

 

[KneeOn]

Unfortunetly a little bit of violence did a little bit of good . How the hell do you expect to get any support with that attitude?

Us "Older" students of the eighties had our own problems, grants went, so WE had to pay our way, the cost of housing around Brighton and Hove if you could find it.

Oh and you ask any student of that day how the fantastic facilities you have today, for example up at Falmer, on the University of Brighton site, compare to the shit we had to put up with, and you'll see why more might have to be paid to go to uni now. FFS, is there anyone who lived in the halls at Falmer or Coldean Lane back in those days?

Because while the students have to be realisitic so do you. What do you think would have gotten in to the news, a peaceful and uneventful perfect protest or one where things turned nasty. That little bit of violence DID to do a bit of good. Put us in the shop window. The bit you seem to (conveniently) missed off is the bit where i've said "it also did so much bad"...

I've also mentioned how the fantastic facilities at Uni's these days are worth a fee. A small one (not 9k a year!) but definately worth the 3k we pay now. If you double that, cut funding the facilities cannot carry a student to a degree alone. Cuts will hurt teaching staff numbers, quality and (although i said it isn't the be all and end all) the facilities. We won't have those fancy buildings much longer (at least not new ones) if these cuts are put in place.

 

[Uncle C]

...

I do believe it actually. Because I didn't read it in a brocure but I follow technology closely.

Minecraft was made by one person. Its made him a very rich man.
Facebook was made by four people. They've had a flim made about them.
Myspace, bebo, youtube, wikipedia, wikiLeaks are all examples of where education has helped people achieve and create things that we now (although not bebo and myspace) use constantly and would struggle to get by with.

With those numbers you would have more expectation of marrying a gay footballer. And, in case you hadn't noticed they are all part of the support, service and entertainment sector. Where are the jobs that manufacture things?

 

[KneeOn]

Sounds lovely and fluffy! However this (even if it was achieved) would only involve a very small minority of the top echelon of creative technical minds, and any such breakthrough would be swallowed up by the existing mega-corps so there would be no real net value to Britain apart from cudos as having come up with the idea.

If britian became more technologically friendly we would be able to attract the businesses that the current crop of IT graduates need (at least those who havn't taken sys admin jobs), which we would be able to make up in tax providing GB with more money.

 

[KneeOn]

With those numbers you would have more expectation of marrying a gay footballer. And, in case you hadn't noticed they are all part of the support, service and entertainment sector. Where are the jobs that manufacture things?

Elonex: A west midlands based computer company. Marketed the first ever sub £100 pound netbook in this country. The inhouse developed bespoke software for all kinds of businesses ranging from Amex, to Family Investments (head office - and only office- in our fair city), the NHS systems, McDonalds has its own system for sorting out scheduals and its own management system for sorting out floor plans and managing payroll.

 

[KneeOn]

I get the feeling I should have read the whole thread?

No, they were seperate points, you just argued the same point against me

The bit about the being in the desperate for a job bit was saying I know what its like, even if it is on a lower scale.

 

[Brian Potter]

If britian became more technologically friendly we would be able to attract the businesses that the current crop of IT graduates need (at least those who havn't taken sys admin jobs), which we would be able to make up in tax providing GB with more money.

But this is the point that some of us are trying to make - You cannot have a country totally immersed in developing IT and technology As Uncle C says "where are the manufacturing jobs". People need things like a kettle. They do not need Bebo or Wikipedia. And as you said, great ideas like Facebook only requried 4 people to develop. Manufacturing required people to physically make things,which means people have jobs.

 

[Uncle C]

Elonex: A west midlands based computer company. Marketed the first ever sub £100 pound netbook in this country. The inhouse developed bespoke software for all kinds of businesses ranging from Amex, to Family Investments (head office - and only office- in our fair city), the NHS systems, McDonalds has its own system for sorting out scheduals and its own management system for sorting out floor plans and managing payroll.

And you coneniently forget all the computing sysyems that cost millions and came to f*** all.

 

[KneeOn]

And you coneniently forget all the computing sysyems that cost millions and came to f*** all.

No industry is perfect even if it strives to be.

I've dug a hole a bit (to say the least) beacuse i've been asked different points, different times from all sides.

We've got a sub-optimal solution. We could do with a larger industry where things get made but China has that now, we've got no chance of taking production away from there. Not enough to significantly reduce the number of people needing a degree to get a meaningful well paid job.

Anyway i'm mentally and physically drained from work and i've stayed up becasue I enjoyed the debate. I need to sleep. Night chaps.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Or, we've moved on with the times and have a new industry that with a bit of training can mean GB is on the forefront of new technology that will do everything from save lives, to make the world more connected socially, develop more platforms and use technology in ways that its not even been dreamed up of yet by those currently in the industry.

Times have moved on but and a major but you have been conned into thinking by the last government that going to uni is the answer to all the country's needs. The wealth generation of this country has and will survive not by the "educated" but by entrepreneurial thinking. This is not borne from uni's but from within the person.

The last government upped the numbers of uni places but lowered the required standards. You're left with under educated masses as opposed to the educated few (by that I mean tomorrows scientists doctors etc). The degree status has been watered down and employers know this. It was a way of social engineering to not just remove the young from the jobs market but to socialise them.

Being educated at uni gives you no direct route into a job and many post graduates find themselves below those who found jobs within their desired field who started straight from school. Companies still prefer to train their employees in their "ways".

You state you need to go to uni to become an engineer, you don't and never have done. I'm a highly qualified engineer and never went.

My daughter is at present at uni studying Drama, her choice, and if she finds a job in the business fine but at present I would be surprised. She understands that its her life choice and that one day she will have to pick up the tap for it. Many of her friends have been on the marches and I took the time to ask them why? These fees charged by the uni's are far far too high, why? Because the government has allowed them to build massive empires taking huge amounts of cash to do what? My daughter has 12 hours of tuition a week for approx. 25 weeks a year. We worked out that given her grant, loan and fee loan this amounts to £350 per hour of tuition. Don't blame the government, the students need to question the uni's themselves. Instead the gullible are standing next to their uni "staff" on the marches. They have feathered their nest for too long, B Lair allowed and supported it and now's the time to rein it in.

All educational institutions are socialist thinking ( they have to be to protect themselves) and this suits Labour. The teachers etc pass this on and little lefties are born. Its only as you grow older you become wiser and perhaps a little more cynical but life itself is the true educator. Remember it was Labour (not just the banks) that f**ked this country don't blame those trying to rectify it.

 

[clapham_gull]

you patronising twat!

what you should be pointing out fuckwit is that when Student Loans were originally brought in by B liar, the interest rate was around 1%...without telling anyone it shot up to 4.5%.......and now the banks are being asked to quote to take over the Student Load Company and will chanrge somewhere in the region of 12%!!!

Student Loans surely introduced under the last days of Thatcher / early days of Major ?

 

[willingdon_seagull]

But have the protests clash with work.

The third national day of action (although it'll actuall be the fourth for brighton because of Tuesdays march - this is the third nationally organized and designated day) takes place on the 5th of December. Thats a Sunday folks. I'm aware of peoples opinions on this matter and they vary widely from total support to being in the anti-student protest camp.

This is the link:

Third National Day of Action - Sunday 5th December 2010

It would be nice to see those who support our movement against cuts in general and those particularly in education.

If this isn't your cause, you don't care or you disagree then thats your view. Even if only one person from here goes, it'll be one more voice standing united.

NO IFS. NO BUTS. NO EDUCATION CUTS!

f*** students. They always think the world owes them something. Their behaviour at these recent "demostrations" shows them up for what they really are. Mindless thugs and many are parasites. Absolutely no sympathy for them and they are not the only people in this country to face cuts.

 

[Don Quixote]

The education cuts they are inflicting are horrendous. Especially on primary schools.

 

[Don Quixote]

People who go to university tend to earn more than those who don't so they will pay more tax, it seems like it is worth giving them some money to do so.

 

[Southwick_Seagull]

Times have moved on but and a major but you have been conned into thinking by the last government that going to uni is the answer to all the country's needs. The wealth generation of this country has and will survive not by the "educated" but by entrepreneurial thinking. This is not borne from uni's but from within the person.

The last government upped the numbers of uni places but lowered the required standards. You're left with under educated masses as opposed to the educated few (by that I mean tomorrows scientists doctors etc). The degree status has been watered down and employers know this. It was a way of social engineering to not just remove the young from the jobs market but to socialise them.

Being educated at uni gives you no direct route into a job and many post graduates find themselves below those who found jobs within their desired field who started straight from school. Companies still prefer to train their employees in their "ways".

You state you need to go to uni to become an engineer, you don't and never have done. I'm a highly qualified engineer and never went.

My daughter is at present at uni studying Drama, her choice, and if she finds a job in the business fine but at present I would be surprised. She understands that its her life choice and that one day she will have to pick up the tap for it. Many of her friends have been on the marches and I took the time to ask them why? These fees charged by the uni's are far far too high, why? Because the government has allowed them to build massive empires taking huge amounts of cash to do what? My daughter has 12 hours of tuition a week for approx. 25 weeks a year. We worked out that given her grant, loan and fee loan this amounts to £350 per hour of tuition. Don't blame the government, the students need to question the uni's themselves. Instead the gullible are standing next to their uni "staff" on the marches. They have feathered their nest for too long, B Lair allowed and supported it and now's the time to rein it in.

All educational institutions are socialist thinking ( they have to be to protect themselves) and this suits Labour. The teachers etc pass this on and little lefties are born. Its only as you grow older you become wiser and perhaps a little more cynical but life itself is the true educator. Remember it was Labour (not just the banks) that f**ked this country don't blame those trying to rectify it.

As a student in my 2nd year at Uni there's not alot (if anything) I disagree with in this post.