Falmer; The sequence of construction

[portlock seagull]

I'm totally with Sully on this. Spot on pal!

And of course, the breakeven figure relies on many of the "told you they wouldn't fill it" fans getting off their arses and coming to the ground. Ow, the irony!!

 

[Lady Whistledown]

The vast majority of clubs who've built new stadiums have seen long term gains as a result. Southampton are a different case as their decline has been based on the loss of Premier League money, when they had top flight wages to pay. The stadium accounts for only a small part of their losses.

Most clubs with new grounds have attracted new audiences, as well as pulling back long lost fans who haven't been for years. This should be even more impactive with the Albion, as we haven't just been playing at a much loved but tired old ground- we've been stuck with a totally inadequate, embarrassing crap-hole. The new stadium alone will pull in plenty of floating voters, and if the team can even slightly compare, yet more will come.

So any equation of current crowd levels with projected attendances at Falmer is a waste of time, as it really isn't relevant.

Like somebody said, if Milton Keynes can go from having quite literally no fans to over 15,000 in less than ten years, it goes to show the power of top class facilities and decent marketing.

 

[The Large One]

Like somebody said, if Milton Keynes can go from having quite literally no fans to over 15,000 in less than ten years, it goes to show the power of top class facilities and decent marketing.

Or Reading from not much more than no fans to over 20,000... etc

 

[Lady Whistledown]

If you build it...

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"Oh, people will come, Ray. People will most definitely come"

 

[Albion Dan]

The vast majority of clubs who've built new stadiums have seen long term gains as a result. Southampton are a different case as their decline has been based on the loss of Premier League money, when they had top flight wages to pay. The stadium accounts for only a small part of their losses.

Most clubs with new grounds have attracted new audiences, as well as pulling back long lost fans who haven't been for years. This should be even more impactive with the Albion, as we haven't just been playing at a much loved but tired old ground- we've been stuck with a totally inadequate, embarrassing crap-hole. The new stadium alone will pull in plenty of floating voters, and if the team can even slightly compare, yet more will come.

So any equation of current crowd levels with projected attendances at Falmer is a waste of time, as it really isn't relevant.

Like somebody said, if Milton Keynes can go from having quite literally no fans to over 15,000 in less than ten years, it goes to show the power of top class facilities and decent marketing.

I have no doubts that for the first couple of seasons we will get very good crowds. Whether that remains is entirely down to what happens on the pitch. I hope it does.

Your argument doesnt always stackup though. A handful have done very well (Hull, Plymouth, BLackpool and Reading) more than a handful have also had a crippling financial disaster (Coventry, Darlington, Leicester, Southampton). Some of those clubs are in trouble because of relegation but its not as clear cut as that.

You have done economics on your CIM course. You must understand that there are big risks with what we are doing in the current climate.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

They are financial advisors and auditors. Possibly worse.

Ok. Let's not rely on financial advisors. Let's place our future in the hands of gamblers and poker players.







Oh.

 

[GT49er]

I don't pretend to understand the finances, but I'm still worried about the future. £65 million is one hell of a lot of money, and it does seem over extravagant for a medium size club whose traditional home is the upper echelons of the third tier of English football, with occasional bumpy excursions into the second tier.

Wherever the £65 million comes from, and whoever coughs up the dosh, they are going to want their money back - about a hundred times as much as we've ever been able to affford for a player - with knobs on. I hope it all comes good - but I'm still concerned.

 

[Lokki 7]

Much of the funding is coming from other sources. The club will not have a debt of £65M on the day the stadium opens. Nothing like. As most of the doomsday predictions started from this premise, they are all fatally flawed...

Agreed. But I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested we are about to take out a £65m mortgage so their comments are not based on that. From memory I think the club have to scrape together around £20m after all the grants and sponsorships are in. As I have already said, add this to our existing liabilities and we are in debt to an equivalent level as Southampton. Maybe we are somehow different to them and our business plan is much healthier but it would be foolish not to consider the similarities because if we get it wrong, there is no more club to support. People seem to be throwing out names like Price Waterhouse as if that is some kind of guarantee, it is not. Not by a long shot.

 

[shoreham moonraker]

Readings fickle supporters are dropping off dramatically, BHA shouldnt have that problem, you have a traditional fan base that far exceeds reading whom were averaging 2-3000 for year after year.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I don't pretend to understand the finances, but I'm still worried about the future. £65 million is one hell of a lot of money, and it does seem over extravagant for a medium size club whose traditional home is the upper echelons of the third tier of English football, with occasional bumpy excursions into the second tier.

Wherever the £65 million comes from, and whoever coughs up the dosh, they are going to want their money back - about a hundred times as much as we've ever been able to affford for a player - with knobs on. I hope it all comes good - but I'm still concerned.

As Lokki has said, the mortgage that we will have to service will be in the region of £20 million (I thought it was £25m, it might be more now, who knows??)

As with any mortgage they will be looking to pay that off over the next 30 odd years, and I'm sure they've worked out various senarios to meet the repayments. You've got to think long term, Falmer isn't just about us, it's to make sure there's a club in 50 years and 100 years time.

 

[Seasider78]

Jesus never happy are we unless we are moaning about something!

Yes we are in the middle of an economic crisis and lending has never been under more scrutiny so if the Albion secure funding for this stadium then it will be demonstrate how impressive our financial plans are. After all nobody is going to lend that sort of cash in this climate on a flimsy proposal.

As for the future who knows and what happens on the pitch will largely dictate that but only in time will we be sure which way it goes. For now can't we just enjoy the moment and be a little more positive and show a bit of faith in the people delivering this stadium for all of our enjoyment.

 

[Lokki 7]

Jesus never happy are we unless we are moaning about something!

For now can't we just enjoy the moment and be a little more positive and show a bit of faith in the people delivering this stadium for all of our enjoyment.

No one is stopping you doing anything. You go ahead and believe in whatever you want without question and be as positive as you like.

There is a big difference between questioning some very large figures and being a "moaner" or "negative". This business plan will put the Albion out of existence if it is wrong. I have no idea what you do or how old you are, but I don't see what right you have to tell others who prefer to use their brains a bit more that they should stop thinking for themselves and tow the club line. It may be their money, but it is the club we all love so we all have a major interest in it's long term survival. Taking everything for granted, even if it turns out to be correct, is very dangerous.

 

[Knotty]

No one is stopping you doing anything. You go ahead and believe in whatever you want without question and be as positive as you like.

There is a big difference between questioning some very large figures and being a "moaner" or "negative". This business plan will put the Albion out of existence if it is wrong. I have no idea what you do or how old you are, but I don't see what right you have to tell others who prefer to use their brains a bit more that they should stop thinking for themselves and tow the club line. It may be their money, but it is the club we all love so we all have a major interest in it's long term survival. Taking everything for granted, even if it turns out to be correct, is very dangerous.

You have convinced me to change my outlook on this.

I will now think the worst at every stage until the stadium is built.

I will then continue to think the worst in case the football is not good enough to maintain the crowds

And I'll continue to think the worst every season because however we play in one season it might be worse the next.

That will keep me thinking the worst until the day I die - in about 30 years time if I get that far.

On second thoughts why don't I save myself years of being negative and miserable by slashing my wrists now?

 

[Man of Harveys]

Not at all sure what the problem is here: when we were at Gillingham, people said we'd never get permission play at Withdean. Now we're at Withdean, people said we'd never get planning permission for Falmer. Once we had permission for Falmer, people said they wouldn't believe it until the bulldozers moved in. Now the bulldozers have moved in, people are saying they won't finish the job and that we'll run out of money.

There'll almost certainly be something else once we've moved in - maybe that we're about to run out of money unless Dick Knight personally reads out lengthy statements about the club's finances during every single halftime, or something like that.

Point is, they've always been proven wrong by the club so far. Simple really.

 

[Deano's Invisible Pants]

The clubs that have succeeded after getting new stadia have also put together exciting, winning football teams (eg. MK Dons, Reading). We need to do the same. If we do, I think we will hit the break even point. If we don't, we will struggle to hit the 10k mark and will lose money.

Simple really.

 

[Lokki 7]

You have convinced me to change my outlook on this.

I will now think the worst at every stage until the stadium is built.

I will then continue to think the worst in case the football is not good enough to maintain the crowds

And I'll continue to think the worst every season because however we play in one season it might be worse the next.

That will keep me thinking the worst until the day I die - in about 30 years time if I get that far.

On second thoughts why don't I save myself years of being negative and miserable by slashing my wrists now?

Furry muff. All I'm trying to get across, very poorly it would seem, is that questioning the biggest financial decision this club will ever make does not mean someone is negative or dis-loyal or critical. It should be a normal part of the process, but ok, I'll shut up. I'm sure we'll do a Hull rather than a Southampton.

 

[Knotty]

Furry muff. All I'm trying to get across, very poorly it would seem, is that questioning the biggest financial decision this club will ever make does not mean someone is negative or dis-loyal or critical. It should be a normal part of the process, but ok, I'll shut up. I'm sure we'll do a Hull rather than a Southampton.

No, what you said was fine. It was just me over-reacting, and it should have been directed more at others and not you. I apologise.

It's just that NSC these days seems to be a constant stream of moans and negativity about anything and everything - even complaining that the new club shop is going to be on the other side of the road! Sure, what has happened on the pitch deserves it, but when the one shining light is the new stadium which we've been fighting for for so long, I find it very depressing to keep reading negative comments about it - more depressing than the football if that's possible!

Sorry.

 

[Lokki 7]

A very gracious apology but not necessary. I do actually agree with all that you've said. It is only out of a deep love for the club and a minimal (yet very disturbing) experience of finance that I express some concern.

 

[Curious Orange]

I got a reply from Insider regarding the capacity of the East Stand, which is follows:

The east, south and north stands are all single tier. The capacity of the stadium is 22,500 and the area above the seating in the east stand is part of the area earmarked for City College.

So, any expansion in capacity could only really come from filling in the corners, unless the City College plan doesn't get backing from the relevant funding body.

 

[Smythe]

I dont care where the 65m is coming from or how much debt we are in after...just get it built......i just want to watch the Albion at the new stadium!! DK has never been one to put this club in jepordy by spending wildly and im sure hes not going to with the cost of the stadium. Im pretty sure providing things on the pitch are not too bad, we will get 12-15k average at least. I think Falmer will transform this club, i know loads of people who have said they will go when Falmer is built....im sure many of us do.....its gonna be rather good watching this stadium take shape!!