Falkland Islands lie in Argentinian waters, UN commission rules

[clapham_gull]

Lots of things but mainly it's my government involved in this antiquated bit of land robbery so I have a right to say balls to it.

Self-determination means the right to be INDEPENDENT, not foist yourself on to a country the other side of the globe. If the islanders want to go their own way, good luck to them but not at our expense and making us look like a bunch of 19th century jokers to the rest of the civilised world

Where I stand. I don't particularly care, but agree with the self determination concept. It's up to them and they aren't lording it over an Argentinian underclass.

Problem with independence is the Falklanders don't want it and The Argentinians want the islands. Quite why they want them is beyond me but we are stuck with it all the time they consider themselves to be a very far away home county with penguins.

Although it probably kept Thatcher in power (and she reaped the applause) official history tells us that her Government probably wanted rid. She was repeatedly warned what would happen and it did. Many in the military never forgive her and yet they had to sort all the mess out. Quite how she found it appropriate afterwards to act so "victorious" is beyond me.

So today this has little to do with Imperialism or the British Empire. It's basically public opinion here and there post the war. Previous to that the marority of the population probably hasn't heard of the place. Today most with a British Passport knows where it is.

The worst thing the Argentinians did was invade. If they hadn't they would now have it and spent the last 30 years struggling to find a use for it.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I wasn't providing any support, I was responding to the anger in your post, trying to provide some historic context/perspective and frankly bemused by your use of the phrase "self loathing lefties" and, for someone so seemingly articulate, your recourse to such naive black/white, us good/them bad football style perspectives when considering political matters.

You refer to self determination and what's in our national interest. It's interesting therefore that during the Falklands war any right to self determination was totally subsumed by national interest when the British subjects living on Diego Garcia were forcibly evicted from their island (when, to borrow your phrase, Britain did hold the whip hand). Their abysmal treatment during and after the removal reveals such woeful hypocrisy; stirring, flag-waving jingoism invoked for Falklands, truly shameful, completely under-the-radar abnegation of duty over Diego Garcia.

I thought your thumbs up to the post by London Irish signified support for his view that we should give up all overseas territories even if against the wishes of the people living there and treat their desire to remain associated with the UK as a joke.

You wouldn't be surprised at my use of that term if you were familiar with his views on a range of issues and his adoration for the Current Leader of Labour and his fellow travellers. Loathing our historical legacy and many other aspects of this country is in their DNA. Hopefully his later posts gave you a better understanding of his pov.

The treatment of the people on Diego Garcia over a decade earlier by a different government was wrong and not particularly relevant when compared to how we acted in the right way by countering an illegal invasion of our overseas territory in support of people who wanted to remain 'British'.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'm sure the families of the 323 needlessly killed would appreciate this. Disrespectful in the extreme I'd say.

"Needlessly killed". Er, we were at war at the time, HMS Sheffield etc?

And if any Argentinians are reading this, so sorry for any offence caused.

 

[Diego Napier]

The treatment of the people on Diego Garcia over a decade earlier by a different government was wrong and not particularly relevant when compared to how we acted in the right way by countering an illegal invasion of our overseas territory in support of people who wanted to remain 'British'.

It is absolutely relevant as a prime example of double standards and the casual ease with which peoples' emotion and opinion can be so easily manipulated. The outcomes at Diego Garcia and the Falklands were both the result of political expediency, their lives were and continue to this day to be of little consequence.

 

[clapham_gull]

Lots of things but mainly it's my government involved in this antiquated bit of land robbery so I have a right to say balls to it.

Self-determination means the right to be INDEPENDENT

Should have added - isn't it actually about the right to choose sovereignty ?

Falklanders have chosen (98% on 92% turnout) NOT to be INDEPENDENT of the UK.

Highly inconvenient for the successive governments and us the UK Tax payer. Bugger but that's democracy for you. Argentina hasn't helped more recently with refusing to come to talks with the residents present.

Part of my brain thinks it's f#### ridiculous that there is an island thousands of miles away that is part of this country. The other half thinks that it is just as ridiculous to ask white Australians to vacate the country. We could extend that to America and whilst we are at it ask African Americans to vacate back to where we helped unfortunately took them from in the first place.

However it wasn't them was it. It was their distant relatives. So politeness and democracy tells me - let's ask them what they would like to do now ?

It's a simple question with the Falklands since their doesn't appear to be a displanted native voice crying to return to their spiritual homeland.

Unless we can find a way to change their minds we are stuck with it. If it opens us up to accusations that we hanging onto the empire I'll live with it.

That doesn't sit nicely with modern anti-colonial thinking unfortunately, but I don't consider it part of that history. Neither do I get all nationalistic about it. It's just an oddity of history.

Before I go - I do plan to visit to get a feel of the place and it's people. I may come back thinking they are all nutters who should "come home". But unless I find Argentinian slaves tending their flocks, I doubt it.

 

[London Irish]

I thought your thumbs up to the post by London Irish signified support for his view that we should give up all overseas territories even if against the wishes of the people living there and treat their desire to remain associated with the UK as a joke.

You wouldn't be surprised at my use of that term if you were familiar with his views on a range of issues and his adoration for the Current Leader of Labour and his fellow travellers. Loathing our historical legacy and many other aspects of this country is in their DNA. Hopefully his later posts gave you a better understanding of his pov.

On the contrary, I think Britain is great and feel very lucky to be born and live here and it will be much improved if we have another government like the Labour one of 1945 that truly made this one of the best places in the world to live in.

You see that's enough for me.

Unlike you, you deluded twerp, whose only pride in Britain is based on the wholesale theft of land the other side of the world. Seriously, just how screwed up do you have to be for the basis of your pride in your country to be some godforsaken rocks in the south Atlantic.

 

[London Irish]

Is that all you think the Chinese are doing in sub Saharan Africa?

You are not seriously implying that the Chinese have militarily invaded countries there? Or are you?

Remember by that token the Chinese have also invaded the UK and will be in control of our nuclear industry shortly. All thanks to the patriotic decision of Cameron's government.

 

[London Irish]

i'm wondering who exactly you think the land is being robbed from? the Falklanders are for all intents and purposes the indigenous people.

Argentina - as the United Nations has decided. The tiny, tiny number of Falklanders, less than live in the few Brighton streets, are mainly settler Welsh and Scots, you need to look up what indigenous means.

 

[London Irish]

In your own mind, you're still in your VI form common room on a sunny day aren't you? Holding the attention of all manner of speccy misfits who think you must know something more than they or you wouldn't talk with such opinionated authority. But all the while, you know that all the normal people (including the intelligent, learned ones) are outside enjoying the sunshine. "land robbery" indeed. Absolute quality. Well played.
.

You were bullied at school, wern't you? Couldn't have been nice - seriously you should check how often you randomly mention schooldays in your posts.

 

[London Irish]

The international law principle of self determination is that inhabitants have the right to chose their sovereignty and international political status without interference.

It does not mean you have to be independent or self governing.

Wrong. Self-determination means determining your own destiny, not that of large country like Britain, nor its modern relations with other democratic sovereign states like Argentina.

Everyone really knows once the brief interlude of Thatcher post-imperial madness is over, we will go back to the status quo ante of 1981, when Argentina and Britain had been discussing for some years a mutually acceptable joint arrangement for the future of the islands. You all know this will happen again, despite the bluster of the Empire dribblers.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Argentina - as the United Nations has decided. The tiny, tiny number of Falklanders, less than live in the few Brighton streets, are mainly settler Welsh and Scots, you need to look up what indigenous means.

There are nine generations of Falkland Islanders living on previously uninhabited islands, unlike The Spanish settlers who displaced indigenous South American people when Argentina became a country seeking independence in 1833.
The Falkland Islands were established in 1750.

 

[beorhthelm]

Argentina - as the United Nations has decided. The tiny, tiny number of Falklanders, less than live in the few Brighton streets, are mainly settler Welsh and Scots, you need to look up what indigenous means.

Argentine attempts to colonise the land where abandoned (along with French and Spanish before), the Scots and Welsh attempts were successfull. you need to look up what intents and purposes means, with no genuine indigenous people the nth generation Falklanders are the nearest thing.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It is absolutely relevant as a prime example of double standards and the casual ease with which peoples' emotion and opinion can be so easily manipulated. The outcomes at Diego Garcia and the Falklands were both the result of political expediency, their lives were and continue to this day to be of little consequence.

It is certainly a prime example of double standards re respecting and defending the wishes of the inhabitants of a British overseas territory. At least the government made the right decision (regardless of motives) in the Falklands.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

On the contrary, I think Britain is great and feel very lucky to be born and live here and it will be much improved if we have another government like the Labour one of 1945 that truly made this one of the best places in the world to live in.

You see that's enough for me.

Unlike you, you deluded twerp, whose only pride in Britain is based on the wholesale theft of land the other side of the world. Seriously, just how screwed up do you have to be for the basis of your pride in your country to be some godforsaken rocks in the south Atlantic.

Your posts and opinions suggest otherwise. I would love to be a fly on the wall at one of your private revolutionary Corbynista gatherings. I bet the (true) opinions expressed there would be something to behold.

 

[Gregory2Smith1]

On the contrary, I think Britain is great and feel very lucky to be born and live here and it will be much improved if we have another government like the Labour one of 1945 that truly made this one of the best places in the world to live in.

You see that's enough for me.

Unlike you, you deluded twerp, whose only pride in Britain is based on the wholesale theft of land the other side of the world. Seriously, just how screwed up do you have to be for the basis of your pride in your country to be some godforsaken rocks in the south Atlantic.

all these pipe dreams going on in your head

united Ireland

Falklands given to Argentina

Gibraltar given to Spain

Corbyn as president

you do realise that none of these will happen

just calm down and go and have a guiness

 

[Bold Seagull]

Lots of things but mainly it's my government involved in this antiquated bit of land robbery so I have a right to say balls to it.

Self-determination means the right to be INDEPENDENT, not foist yourself on to a country the other side of the globe. If the islanders want to go their own way, good luck to them but not at our expense and making us look like a bunch of 19th century jokers to the rest of the civilised world

This is what you stated above.

Wrong. Self-determination means determining your own destiny, not that of large country like Britain, nor its modern relations with other democratic sovereign states like Argentina.

Everyone really knows once the brief interlude of Thatcher post-imperial madness is over, we will go back to the status quo ante of 1981, when Argentina and Britain had been discussing for some years a mutually acceptable joint arrangement for the future of the islands. You all know this will happen again, despite the bluster of the Empire dribblers.

You obviously couldn't determine yourselves to be assimilated into a state that doesn't want you, but you clearly stated that self determination is the right to be independent, that can be true, but it is also true the inhabitants could determine to be part of a country that wants them - it isn't just about being independent. So I am not wrong, you have just chosen to misinterpret what was said to you.

 

[GT49er]

Unlike you, you deluded twerp, whose only pride in Britain is based on the wholesale theft of land the other side of the world. Seriously, just how screwed up do you have to be for the basis of your pride in your country to be some godforsaken rocks in the south Atlantic.

Those 'godforsaken rocks' are somebody's home - and have been their home for nine generations. Their home was then invaded by a hostile foreign would-be colonial power, intent on empire building, That is 'theft of land' - and wow! shock horror, it wasn't Great Britain that was doing it!
Those oppressed and invaded people then appealed to us for help to expel the land thieves that were trying to turn them into an unwilling colony of Argentina. I'm rather proud we responded to that plea, and no, that is far from being the only thing I'm proud of about my country.

 

[London Irish]

Your posts and opinions suggest otherwise. I would love to be a fly on the wall at one of your private revolutionary Corbynista gatherings. I bet the (true) opinions expressed there would be something to behold.

There are 15,000 steelworkers in this country whose lives are about to be destroyed. If you love this country so much, tell me what you think should be done to save the livelihoods of these hard-working British people now under threat.

Does your pride in your country extend to them?

Or is it all just a load of bullshite to cover up your eternal suck-up to the rich and powerful?

 

[London Irish]

Those 'godforsaken rocks' are somebody's home - and have been their home for nine generations. Their home was then invaded by a hostile foreign would-be colonial power, intent on empire building, That is 'theft of land' - and wow! shock horror, it wasn't Great Britain that was doing it!
Those oppressed and invaded people then appealed to us for help to expel the land thieves that were trying to turn them into an unwilling colony of Argentina. I'm rather proud we responded to that plea, and no, that is far from being the only thing I'm proud of about my country.

You are proud that 1,000 people were slaughtered so that 1,800 sheepfarmers can work away under one red and blue flag rather than a blue and while flag? That scale of blood sacrifice and family tragedy and ruin you think proportionate and just?

Are you at all aware we were in advanced negotiations with Argentina to either share or hand back sovereignty because the British governments of the time recognised the weakness of their case? Weakness that has now been confirmed by the UN? None of that is relevant?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There are 15,000 steelworkers in this country whose lives are about to be destroyed. If you love this country so much, tell me what you think should be done to save the livelihoods of these hard-working British people now under threat.

Does your pride in your country extend to them?

Or is it all just a load of bullshite to cover up your eternal suck-up to the rich and powerful?

Classic internet debate. Start getting personal about someone's opinion and go off at a tangent.