[Music] Fairytale of New York - PC gone mad or correct decision?

[LlcoolJ]

A fair and equal social and professional landscape where people from as many backgrounds as is practicable can navigate their way through daily life without facing prejudice or offensive attitudes, enabling as many people as possible to have a fair chance at bettering themselves and make the most of opportunities that present themselves?

I'm OFFENDED! What's wrong with being a ****!!?

 

[Stato]

And yet McGowan himself, the man who penned the lyrics, couldn’t give a feck.

A couple of years before the release of Fairytale, the Pogues were on The Tube, Channel 4, Friday Tea-time. Macgowan was happy to censor himself on 'The Boys From County Hell':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQKETnoQQKY

It seems quite silly all of these blokes my age defending the right to free speech on the grounds of Shane's poetry being something that must be set in stone and left untouched by time. There is obvious evidence that Macgowan's not precious. 1) He has said so, 2) he has shown himself to be willing to compromise in the past (see above) 3) let's face it, any of us who've seen the Pogues live over the years have experienced points in songs where we can remember the words better than he can, so he can't be that bothered about their sanctity.

I love Fairytale of New York. I'm pleased that it gives Shane a decent income all these years later. If playing an edited version on Radio 1 acts an entry to the rest of their ouvre for anyone from this generation then crack on. When they've soaked up 'A Pair of Brown Eyes', 'Sally MacLennane', 'Waxies Dargle', 'The Sickbed of Cuchulainn', 'Thousands are Sailing', 'The Body of An American', 'A Rainy Night In Soho', 'Kitty' and so many more they'll appreciate the place where the language choices came from. (Then they can try Tom Waits.) If they're not that bothered about that and just want the melancholic romanticism of the Christmas song once a year, then the edited version allows for it to be consumed by a wider audience without excluding anyone other than those who just don't like it.

I still love Randy Newman's 'Rednecks', but understand that it uses language that is now archaic even in the context of it's anti-racist message. It's intent would be a secondary issue to the upset it would cause the wider population were it to be played annually on national radio stations. I suspect that writers like Brendan O'Neill and campaigners like Fox haven't batted an eyelid over Radio 1 playing versions of Stormzy's 'Shut Up' or 'Vossi Bop' that have swear words silenced. They didn't care in the least about Cee Lo Green's hit being 'Forget You' and not what it was called on the album. If they decide that words are not appropriate for children, that's them being responsible, if the younger generation decide for themselves then they're being 'snowflakes' who need to face harsh realities. It's just blokes from my race, class and age group being unwilling to give up the power to make decisions for everybody else. They should try it. I can say from personal domestic experience that when you don't feel that you have to be in charge of everyone else, you have far more time to drink whisky and hide in the other room with the Pogues on your headphones.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Health and safety gone mad

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

The Pogues support the removal of the word from the song - and have had a right go at the likes of Laurence Fox who is trying to make a name for himself out of criticising this type of stuff/

 

[chaileyjem]

A classic Christmas song that has been part of Christmas for pretty much as long as I can remember.
Obviously no more....on BBC.

It was featured in full as part of the most watched tv show of 2019 - on Christmas day on BBC 1.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Radio 1: Alternative version of the song played
Radio 2: Original version of the song played
6 Music: DJs have the choice which version they play

How much more choice, from one broadcaster, do you WANT?

Not to mention Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Amazon Music, YouTube, Vimeo, DailyMotion, Facebook, Twitter, or the original track on vinyl, cassette or CD

No more, that's quite enough. BBC have done what they feel is right and what they have done is OK.

However, I do feel they've made a big song and dance about it. Just play the updated version, then the young darlings will hear that it is the more polite version and won't have any reason to complain.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

A fair and equal social and professional landscape where people from as many backgrounds as is practicable can navigate their way through daily life without facing prejudice or offensive attitudes, enabling as many people as possible to have a fair chance at bettering themselves and make the most of opportunities that present themselves?

As much as I'd love that, PC culture would do the complete opposite. It would mean a society which much less freedom of expression and speech and to have the freedom of offending someone, within reason of course (I don't mean homophobia, racism etc because that's entirely unacceptable), but being able to say jokes which may offend.

Comedy is based lightly around this basis and if we head for a society which says we cannot say or do anything which may offend, it'll absolutely turn out for the worse, not better.

There is a journalist who I often read in the Observer, Kenan Malik, is a British Indian and he has had a lot to say of the PC culture slowly creeping into society. Whilst he says that some is welcome on obviously offensive content within society, we are also playing a dangerous game and I completely agree with him.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

I haven't read a single post on this thread because I was just having a very quick troll through the thread titles to see if anything caught my eye before shooting off to bed ... and I saw this one, and felt the hairs on the back of my neck start to quiver as my heckles began to raise ....

Now somebody else is bound to have already made this point, so I apologise if they have and I'm just repeating the same old dross .... but FFS ........... it is a song.
It is not a political or social statement or any other type of subliminal protest .... it is a SONG!

If anyone is offended by a SONG then might I suggest they give up listening to music, their life will be all the better for it.

Be truthful people ... does anybody REALLY buy a SONG for the words?

"Oh the tune is absolute dirge, but I love the words so I just had to buy this song".
Garbage ... nobody honestly does that.

They like the tune first and hope that the words might add to the experience, but it's no big deal if they don't, people will buy a good tune anyway.
I'm probably in a minority, but I struggle to understand the lyrics in songs nowadays, it's only about 1 in 50 that I can actually make out what's being said.

For the record, I love the melody and the singing of "Fairytale ....."
It's one of my favourite all time xmas songs, and I have never bothered to register what the words are actually saying or not saying, I don't listen to it for the words ... it's the TUNE that's important!

I agree with regards to the melodies and the fact it is, at the end of the day, just a song.

But I disagree re the lyrics.

The lyrics are what makes most songs great, however I do get where you are coming from, not everyone listens to just the lyrics and vice versa.

 

[sydney]

As much as I'd love that, PC culture would do the complete opposite. It would mean a society which much less freedom of expression and speech and to have the freedom of offending someone, within reason of course (I don't mean homophobia, racism etc because that's entirely unacceptable), but being able to say jokes which may offend.

Comedy is based lightly around this basis and if we head for a society which says we cannot say or do anything which may offend, it'll absolutely turn out for the worse, not better.

There is a journalist who I often read in the Observer, Kenan Malik, is a British Indian and he has had a lot to say of the PC culture slowly creeping into society. Whilst he says that some is welcome on obviously offensive content within society, we are also playing a dangerous game and I completely agree with him.

but it is perfectly right on for Trevor Noah, Nish Kumar and numerous other coc's to rip into whiteys..........sawll auld bollox innit.

 

[portlock seagull]

but it is perfectly right on for Trevor Noah, Nish Kumar and numerous other coc's to rip into whiteys..........sawll auld bollox innit.

Kumar is a **** and an unfunny one at that. His entire material is really thinly disguised racism as you allude. Bores on about his ethnicity...zzzzzzz. He needs to grow a pair. They might then drop too. Irritating squeak of a man.

 

[Pevenseagull]

The Pogues support the removal of the word from the song - and have had a right go at the likes of Laurence Fox who is trying to make a name for himself out of criticising this type of stuff/

I saw a tweet the other day labelling him a 'Waitrose Tommy Robinson'. Which I thought was rather good.

 

[HastingsSeagull]

I disagree with banning it at all given some of the crap spewed out like W.A.P. but if you're gonna find a compromise just don't play it mornings/daytimes and leave it on the schedule at night.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

No more, that's quite enough. BBC have done what they feel is right and what they have done is OK.

However, I do feel they've made a big song and dance about it. Just play the updated version, then the young darlings will hear that it is the more polite version and won't have any reason to complain.

You think THE BBC has made a big song and dance about it? Surely it's the outraged media and public who have jumped on the bandwagon, not understood a) the thinking behind it or b) the details of the decision (it's 'banned' from ONE radio station, not the whole cocking corporation) and have blown it out of all proportion? The Daily Mail, for example, has plenty of previous when it comes to having pops at the BBC – as have many other media outlets because they don't like/approve of the taxpayer-funded business model.

 

[Stato]

I've just finally got around to watching a BBC4 clip show of Manchester bands that I've had recorded since September and noticed that they silenced some words of John Cooper Clarke's presumably for fear of causing offence. Looking at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mzrnVbsaXk

it seems that it was actually censored from the original 1980 performance on the Old Grey Whistle Test. I must have missed Laurence Fox's early autumn campaign for the removed words 'Keith Joseph' to be reinstated to 'smiles and a Baby dies in a box on Beasley Street'.

 

[Easy 10]

A couple of years before the release of Fairytale, the Pogues were on The Tube, Channel 4, Friday Tea-time. Macgowan was happy to censor himself on 'The Boys From County Hell':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQKETnoQQKY

It seems quite silly all of these blokes my age defending the right to free speech on the grounds of Shane's poetry being something that must be set in stone and left untouched by time. There is obvious evidence that Macgowan's not precious. 1) He has said so, 2) he has shown himself to be willing to compromise in the past (see above) 3) let's face it, any of us who've seen the Pogues live over the years have experienced points in songs where we can remember the words better than he can, so he can't be that bothered about their sanctity.

I love Fairytale of New York. I'm pleased that it gives Shane a decent income all these years later. If playing an edited version on Radio 1 acts an entry to the rest of their ouvre for anyone from this generation then crack on. When they've soaked up 'A Pair of Brown Eyes', 'Sally MacLennane', 'Waxies Dargle', 'The Sickbed of Cuchulainn', 'Thousands are Sailing', 'The Body of An American', 'A Rainy Night In Soho', 'Kitty' and so many more they'll appreciate the place where the language choices came from. (Then they can try Tom Waits.) If they're not that bothered about that and just want the melancholic romanticism of the Christmas song once a year, then the edited version allows for it to be consumed by a wider audience without excluding anyone other than those who just don't like it.

I still love Randy Newman's 'Rednecks', but understand that it uses language that is now archaic even in the context of it's anti-racist message. It's intent would be a secondary issue to the upset it would cause the wider population were it to be played annually on national radio stations. I suspect that writers like Brendan O'Neill and campaigners like Fox haven't batted an eyelid over Radio 1 playing versions of Stormzy's 'Shut Up' or 'Vossi Bop' that have swear words silenced. They didn't care in the least about Cee Lo Green's hit being 'Forget You' and not what it was called on the album. If they decide that words are not appropriate for children, that's them being responsible, if the younger generation decide for themselves then they're being 'snowflakes' who need to face harsh realities. It's just blokes from my race, class and age group being unwilling to give up the power to make decisions for everybody else. They should try it. I can say from personal domestic experience that when you don't feel that you have to be in charge of everyone else, you have far more time to drink whisky and hide in the other room with the Pogues on your headphones.

You don't half come out with some BOLLOCKS

But this isn't one of those occasions. Great post, perfectly expressed, agree with every word.

 

[Stato]

You don't half come out with some BOLLOCKS

But this isn't one of those occasions. Great post, perfectly expressed, agree with every word.

Nice of you to say so. Although, when I read your first line, I thought for a minute that my wife had started an account.