[Music] Fairytale of New York - PC gone mad or correct decision?

[midnight_rendezvous]

PC gone mad. What's homophobic about a meatball

Poor old Mr Brain must be living every single day in perpetual fear of generation snowflake.

Is this the same generation that complained about the Sainsbury’s advert too

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

Fairytale of New York is a masterpiece and certainly one of the better Christmas Records.
It seems a shame that radio one want to prevent their new listeners from hearing it.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I totally get why banning the word '******' from one of the most played Christmas songs makes sense.

However, why are they banning the word 'slut' which has been in common usage since the Middle Ages?

 

[Eeyore]

The song is not homophobic. It has a character that uses homophobic language. It deals with a section of society that did/does use prejudiced language in the same way that 'Oliver's Army' uses a racist term that was applied by the English to the Irish. Macgowan dealt with the fuss in a very level headed and erudite way a couple of years ago https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...******-reference-in-christmas-song-1.3723622:

“The word was used by the character because it fitted with the way she would speak and with her character,” he said. “She is not supposed to be a nice person, or even a wholesome person. She is a woman of a certain generation at a certain time in history and she is down on her luck and desperate.”
He said the dialogue was “as accurate as I could make it but she is not intended to offend! She is just supposed to be an authentic character and not all characters in songs and stories are angels or even decent and respectable, sometimes characters in songs and stories have to be evil or nasty in order to tell the story effectively.”
The singer added that he did not want to get into an argument about the song and said he would have no problem with that word being bleeped out during radio airplay.

L.P. Hartley's famous quote from the 'Go-Between' is relevant to most of these arguments about offence versus context: "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there." Let's have an understanding of the truth of this and accept that we can acknowledge the progress made in many areas between then and now without complete condemnation of artists who created great things, but didn't have access to the increased understanding of the potential effects of language on minority groups that came with late 20th/21st century political consideration.

I side more with McGowan's explanation.

We seem to have a society which deals in absolute rather than context and intent.

The term 'offence' is an abused one too. It's not about offence but whether something is right in its context.

Someone mentioned 'Sussex by the Sea'. It's not relevant, everyone knows the term 'gay' means something else. If someone wanted to update the word 'men' to 'folk' so it was inclusive I'd have no problem with that either. Women are useful too !

Context, intent, inclusiveness. They can sit comfortably together if folk don't get their knickers in a twist. Society can progress without deleting history.

 

[lawros left foot]

Couldn't agree more. What songs are you thinking of?

Laid by James

“She only comes when she’s on top”
Has become,
“ She only sings when she’s on top “
Also
“Black my eyes and call me pretty “
Has become,
“ Paint my eyes and call me pretty “


Oliver’s Army by Elvis Costello

“One more widow, one less white ****** ”
Has become,
“One more widow, one less mumble, mumble mumble”

I don’t know if they have re-written All the way from Memphis, yet.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Sure I heard Laid last week on 6 with the original lyrics?

 

[Is it PotG?]

R2 still play Perfect 10. Always found it a bid 'odd'.

When he's at my gate, with a big fat eight
You wanna see the smile on my face
And even at my door, with a poor poor four
There ain't no man can replace
'Cause we love our love in different sizes
I love her body, especially the lies
Time takes it's toll, but not on the eyes
Promise me this, take me tonight
If he's extra large (that's me) well I'm in charge (uh-huh)
I can work this thing on top
And if he's XXL, well what the hell (uh-huh)
Every penny don't fit the slot
And the anorexic chicks that model six
They don't hold no weight with me
Well eight or nine, well that's just fine
But I like to hold something I can see

 

[Mr Putdown]

Laid by James

Oliver’s Army by Elvis Costello

Since when have either of those songs been homophobic and when did James and Elvis Costello become rap artists?

 

[Stato]

[tweet]1329394157354446850[/tweet]

Nice to see them putting that feckless tosser Fox in his place.

A fantastic Pogueian response: combining a Rabelaisian use of language with a healthy disdain for dishonest right wing politicking and throwing in the historical knowledge needed to use a word like herrenvolk, which I've just had to look up and consider to be a very apt insult to throw at Fox.

I see from the report in The Scotsman that Radio One have only said that they will play the edited version instead of not playing it at all. Seems a sensible compromise and has been done with songs that have words that could potentially offend a segment of the audience for years. https://www.scotsman.com/heritage-a...-song-explained-and-it-offensive-2020-3040986

Now can we concentrate on the real issue of having the dismal Pet Shop Boys cover of 'Always On My Mind' that kept Fairytale off Number One replaced on all radio stations either by something good by PSBs like 'Suburbia' or 'Being Boring' or with the faultless Willie Nelson version.

 

[rippleman]

Our wonderful BBC has, in the past, banned songs by such reactionary luminaries as Shirley Bassey, Bob Dylan, Wings, Arthur Askey and George Formby.

They have history for this kind of censorship going back decades. A list can be found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_banned_by_the_BBC


We really shouldn't be surprised!

 

[worthingseagull123]

The worst thing in the world is offending someone.

 

[Stato]

The mention of James reminds me that my kids would quite happily campaign for me to stop playing the song 'Skullduggery' about the singer having his head hollowed out by insects eating his brains. Throughout their childhoods they have also been upset at times by Jonathan Coulton's 'Re: Your Brains' The Ronnettes 'Leader of The Pack' and Benny Hill's 'Ernie'. Just a month ago, I was made to skip the latter on a Seventies compilation that was playing in the car because, even after all these years, they haven't got over Ernie's sad end.

 

[m@goo]

I think the less homophobia, racism and misogyny in life the better.

These things may not affect you personally but they affect many, often causing huge mental health issues. So many gay men take their lives every year simply because they are too afraid to come out because society thinks it's ok to use the word gay as a jibe. Using homophobic insults needs to be as socially unacceptable as using racist terms and that will happen in the coming years.

So, so many women have suffered at the hands of men that think it's ok to treat women disrespectfully because that's how they're treated in the media.

So to my mind songs like The Fairy tale of New York need to be consigned to the unacceptable bin just as several 70's and 80's TV programs are due to their racism. Just as page 3 girls are now and 90's lad mags etc.

 

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

Q; where does NSC stand on Soft Cells 'Sex Dwarf'

A: About 3 foot 6

no doubt ill be banned proberly for being hightist

Regards

DF

 

[A1X]

Given the Pogues themselves disowned the lyrics in 1992 isn't this all a bit of a fuss about nothing?

 

[stewart12]

quite a lot of songs get censored because of certain words...it's quite normal for rap songs to be censored for radio

feel like the "itS pC GoNE maD!!!!!!" brigade only have an issue with this because it's a song that they know....wonder if they'd feel the same about, say, Stan by Eminem which was heavily censored for radio. Maybe because people tuning into the radio don't necessarily need to listen to a bloke going on about murdering his pregnant wife. If they want to hear it they could have (and this dates the song) bought the album and listened to the uncensored version, in the same way that if you really want to hear someone calling their partner a ****** then you can quite easily find it and listen to it but I don't think a teenager tuning into radio 1 needs to hear that

 

[JBizzle]

Ah here we go, loads of people exploding with righteous rage on social media over something that really isn't actually important to them.

Changing the lyrics to a song because it is offensive to some people shouldn't be an issue. The fact is "you" might not be offended, but there are people out there that genuinely are and, as others have said, this will be played 1,000s of times over the next month - Who really cares if the lyrics are changed as long as it's for the right reasons? I know I don't. Besides, they aren't altering the song, they're just playing a different version by the same artist.

I've also just seen that populist sewer-weasel Laurence Fox is the "frontman" of this protest. On that note, I've never been more certain that this is the correct course of action.

 

[Stato]

I think the less homophobia, racism and misogyny in life the better.

These things may not affect you personally but they affect many, often causing huge mental health issues. So many gay men take their lives every year simply because they are too afraid to come out because society thinks it's ok to use the word gay as a jibe. Using homophobic insults needs to be as socially unacceptable as using racist terms and that will happen in the coming years.

So, so many women have suffered at the hands of men that think it's ok to treat women disrespectfully because that's how they're treated in the media.

So to my mind songs like The Fairy tale of New York need to be consigned to the unacceptable bin just as several 70's and 80's TV programs are due to their racism. Just as page 3 girls are now and 90's lad mags etc.

Whilst I have sympathy with most of your post, your last statement is a little silly. As previously mentioned, Fairytale is not a homophobic song. I would suggest that things being 'consigned to the unacceptable', as well as ringing a bit of 'Fahrenheit 451', does little or nothing to change the challenges faced by those affected and throws the baby out with the bathwater (Tenpole Tudor anyone?).

Art is complex. It has many intended and unintended consequences. Interpretation is beyond the creator's control and it is perfectly possible to challenge, or even condemn elements of a piece of art, or artist's perceived intent and still learn from, or love other elements.

WB Yeats's 'The Second Coming' is one of my favourite poems. It gave Chinua Achebe the title of 'Things Fall Apart' and Joan Didion 'Slouching Towards Bethlehem'. It was written in post WWI Europe and I interpret it as a warning of the coming of fascism / totalitarianism that is still very relevant today. However, Yeats was an Irish nationalist and supporter of the crypto-fascist 'Blueshirts', so I'm pretty certain didn't intend my interpretation. It doesn't matter. I take what I want from his work. He can't correct me from the past.

Consigning things to 'the unacceptable' because of outdated attitudes, prejudices, or language chucks away the offensive element, but with it goes everything that may be of worth. An understanding of historical context and the ability to separate intent, contemporary attitudes and the experiences / advantages of the creators allows us to consider and discuss why the misogyny, homophobia, racism or classism was expressed. Understanding the origins of prejudice seems far more useful to challenging prejudice than not acknowledging and considering anything or anybody deemed to be displaying it. The latter is a dead end as it only stops prejudice being openly expressed, not being felt.

 

[Grombleton]

Given the Pogues themselves disowned the lyrics in 1992 isn't this all a bit of a fuss about nothing?

Gives the frothing masses something to froth about. Everyone else just gets on with it.

 

[Eeyore]

[tweet]1329394157354446850[/tweet]

Nice to see them putting that feckless tosser Fox in his place.

I LOVE it. If that's the new lyric then I'm all for thus.