Factory Records

[fatfingers]

Well Marley and Hendrix were big when alive, however I would say in the case of Joplin and maybe the likes of Tim Buckley their passing raised their profile. It's almost a cliché to say that dying doesn't do you any harm, I wonder if Gary Glitter has thought of trying it.

I would help him

 

[NMH]

Transmission, New Dawn Fades and Decades tend to vie for the position of my favourite Joy Division.

Interesting to wonder whether Joy Division would have taken the direction of New Order had Curtis lived.

No-one can know for sure, but indications were that they would have been big if Curtis had lived. They were already featuring very highly with the music rags, and were a movement as well as a group. Post-punk, JD were something kids could identify with - dour and depressed, anguished, dark, and dressing to suit their mood.
Notable that Curtis headed an image that he really did live! What exacerbated what....was it the image enforcing his deeply depressed loss-of-hope mood, or was it his emotional state that influenced both the music and image?

Amy Winehouse has hopelessly embraced her own image to the point of submersion, but along with it comes an incapability to exist on a social or entertainment level (so far). Exulting her own inebriation and dependence on alcohol, she finds her malady is celebrated.... then the resultant inability to function angers those who have idolized her for her addiction! Catch 22 again, albeit easier to see how that frustrating circle works (or doesn't).
Now that no-one likes or trusts her, is sick of her attitude and behavior, she is set with a challenge to actually come up with the goods as an entertainer or go and drown herself in her own poison until she makes the news as another dead 'legend' like Janis Joplin.

More sublime perhaps, are the heroin and acid casualties. They immerse themselves in drugs that fueled their enigmatic songwriting and imaginative records, until they cannot step away from the tray - like a lab rat that will choose the door where the cocaine is, rather than the one with food, until it dies....or cannot stand up to make the choice any longer. Extremes are Syd Barrett, who died spiritually, as a functioning communicative person - and Kurt Cobain, who just blew his self away.

Morrissey might be another comparable, but his songs were about whinging emo bender-angst in the north. He could sustain that whinge for a successful career, until he ultimately became just a bore to the buying public at large. He can now submerge into aging queendom, and that's the sustainable embodiment of an image that he lives.

Ian Curtis committed suicide, and embodied his image forever as a depressive.
Could he have sustained the depression, through a long successful career - is a quandary. Music and entertainment has a way of bringing the best to the front - the people who play from the heart, who MEAN what they do, who aren't actually faking it.

 

[fatfingers]

quality post sir

 

[warsaw]

for me 'Warsaw' is great

Why thank you Sir Sarcy!

Personally I love 'Twenty Four Hours', a thrilling wall of thrashing guitar.

Anyone read Deborah Curtis' biography? While we all like to think of Curtis as a genius/god, her account of what it was like to live with him brings us back to reality. A good read.

 

[Buzzer]

Biggest selling 12" in history ? Hard to say when Factory weren't part of the BPIA we only have their word for it. However it's worth noting that there's nothing like somebody passing away to increase their popularity. Elvis did okay after his death as did people like Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison to name but two more.

I disagree. New Order really struggled to shake Ian's death and the band had very unfavourable reviews for ages after. It didn't help that all of a sudden Bernard was thrust into the limelight as the lead singer when he previously had the stage presence of a dead cat. They lost a lot of fans - especially after their discovery of the dance scene in New York and Chicago and the direction they took their music.

People like Elvis and Jim Morrison would always have done well seeing as they were such huge stars before they died. I think if you want to look at death being a positive career move then look at Nick Drake, Elliott Smith, Tim Buckley (as previously mentioned).

 

[El Presidente]

To true , why is it every genious in which ever field is flawed in some way?

Ian Curtis
Sean Ryder
George Best
Paul Gasgione
Oliver Reed
Jim Morrison
Heath Ledger
Kurt Cobaine
River Phoenix

god giveth in one hand and taketh with the other?

.....I think you forgot Doug Loft from that list.

 

[El Presidente]

Anyone read Deborah Curtis' biography? While we all like to think of Curtis as a genius/god, her account of what it was like to live with him brings us back to reality. A good read.

Yup, read it, have also just finished 'From Joy Division to New Order' by Mick Middles, which is another good story, with more input about Tony Wilson.

 

[NMH]

quality post sir

Thanks ff

 

[Sir Sarcy]

What is interesting is the idea that if Curtis had not killed himself then i dont believe Factory would have ever become what they were.

Could you really see Curtis taking JD the way that New Order went and adreeing to open the Hacienda or sign up bands like the Happy Mondays, not on your life.

They probably would have drifted into obscurity once Ian got bored of writing

 

[medicine man]

What is interesting is the idea that if Curtis had not killed himself then i dont believe Factory would have ever become what they were.

Could you really see Curtis taking JD the way that New Order went and adreeing to open the Hacienda or sign up bands like the Happy Mondays, not on your life.

They probably would have drifted into obscurity once Ian got bored of writing

Exactly- they may have been a success, actually made proper money, paid their bands, signed The Smiths and not have to sell out to London Records.

The Hacienda lost money hand over fist- when it got really popular, when acid house hit, people were drinking water not beer.

The Factory story is a fascinating one, whenever it looked like success was about to hit, something would happen.

A book I'd recommend is 24hr Party People, written by Wilson (RIP) as a side buddy to the film, a very entertaining read.

Also, synths were being used in Joy Division- it would only be a matter of time for a more electronic sound to develop- Hannett loved sound and what could generate it or what could be done to it.

 

[Garage_Doors]

Digital was always the best song for me,