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[Football] FA Cup Replays Scrapped
- Thread starter Frutos
- Start date
Barber is Levy's bestie, no real shock in how he voted, if he did indeed vote that way
Do we also know it's the big 6 ( I hate that phrase) that have driven this?
Hardly any "big 6" have replays.... it's always the middle low team managers moaning about the replays as survival comes first.
I think the replays till the 4th/5th round was the ideal solution, seems pointless to do away with a couple of rounds
- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,927
From a personal perspective, I have questioned the need for replays since forever. Going into a cup draw as an 'or' is no fun (mind you, they do draws before the round is complete and I don't think they should)
A match that needs to be finished on the day is more drama. 90 minutes then straight to penalties. That would give smaller clubs a bigger chance. I'm not sure that many have won lucrative replays anyway. And they are often played in half empty stadiums.
If prize money can be distributed more evenly and smaller clubs can be given a helping hand I'm all for that. A shorter sharper FA Cup might preserve it's integrity longer as well.
I must add, I was of this opinion when Albion were in the lower leagues as well.
A match that needs to be finished on the day is more drama. 90 minutes then straight to penalties. That would give smaller clubs a bigger chance. I'm not sure that many have won lucrative replays anyway. And they are often played in half empty stadiums.
If prize money can be distributed more evenly and smaller clubs can be given a helping hand I'm all for that. A shorter sharper FA Cup might preserve it's integrity longer as well.
I must add, I was of this opinion when Albion were in the lower leagues as well.
jackalbion
Well-known member
- Aug 30, 2011
- 4,926
Most match going fans want replays. A tradition of the competition going back as far as I remember. It’s one of many things what makes our football culture in the UK so unique and addictive. Glad Barber (unless he was the director not informed) made the decision for us all #together
- Oct 17, 2008
- 14,533
The increasing enshittification of the FA Cup.
- Feb 22, 2014
- 2,828
I have long thought that replays were always about gouging more money out of fans. As someone else said, if small clubs are relying on the chance of a replay with a bigger club there is something fundamentally wrong in the system. That or they are just badly run like we were, in which case throwing more money at them ain’t necessarily the best way. Doing things the same way, “because that’s how we’ve always done it,” doesn’t cut it for me.
Milano
Well-known member
The first copper nail was hammered into the FA Cup when the WEAK FA allowed ManU to dictate to them in 2000. This was followed by the criminal decision to knock down Wembley completely at an insane cost, meaning that the cost of the rebuild had to be clawed back by destroying the mystery and romance of the old place by playing as many games as possible there. The next nail was holding the semis there. The next was allowing TV to f*** around with match times and allow the draw to be before some teams had even played FFS. Then moving the final to not be the last match, there was a lot of anger at this and it was moved back. Then moving R5 to midweek and now all replays are gone and the EPL/Sky have their way that the final is no longer the final match.
They’ve killed it.
The FA are a PATHETIC organisation. I would support a boycott of the FA Cup.
If PBOBE was complicit in this then shame on him, not in my name.
They’ve killed it.
The FA are a PATHETIC organisation. I would support a boycott of the FA Cup.
If PBOBE was complicit in this then shame on him, not in my name.
- Oct 17, 2008
- 14,533
I think that’s very easy for us to say from our current position. The truth is that finances outside of the PL are absolutely f***ed and have been since Sky and the TV money. The haves and have-nots will always be the case, short of a very wealthy third party benefactor (such as Tony Bloom).
I think it’s completely unfair to assume clubs with very small stadiums, fanbases, modest budgets and such are badly run. The majority of the 92 spend within their means and still operate at large losses. How can, say, Harrogate Town, with an average attendance of 2,500 people paying £18 a head average (£45k per week matchday ticket income, their main source of revenue) afford to operate?
Well, they can’t. The average League Two wage is approximately £2,000 per week. £2,000 x a squad of 20 is £40,000. Nearly their entire income spent on wages alone. Never mind operating costs, stadium costs, bonuses, staffing costs, and the endless expenses involved in operating a football club.
These clubs aren’t selling players for profit like we are, their share of television income is minimal, they don’t shift much merch, 500 matchday burger sales will only go so far.
The FA Cup and the potential it provides for a pay day helps provide dozens of teams each year a lifeline for survival.
I don’t think it’s about gouging money from fans at all, I think it’s about the tradition of preserving the legitimacy of a cup competition by having a definitive winner. A league is decided by every match across the season - a cup is decided in those 90 minutes. It’s about meritocracy.
In my opinion this is the final death knell for a competition which has been shat on and run into the ground by the Premier League
The lower/non league clubs that are getting their knickers in a knot about the possibility that in the future they MIGHT have a bit of a cup run that MIGHT involve them getting a draw in a round of a cup that MIGHT mean earning a few more £’s to sustain them, then they really need to question the way their club is run.
This is a massive fuss about nothing. Evolve or die. The FA Cup was going the way of the latter so suck it up.
This is a massive fuss about nothing. Evolve or die. The FA Cup was going the way of the latter so suck it up.
- Oct 17, 2008
- 14,533
Milano
Well-known member
- Feb 22, 2014
- 2,828
Finances inside the PL aren’t that great, we are one of how many to actually make a profit?
You say a league is decided by every match across the season - a cup is decided in those 90 minutes.Well, that’s what I am arguing for, a cup should be decided in 90 minutes. If not then a penalty shoot out rather than the endless replays we used to get. Pay the clubs more equally instead of loading up the televised games. If the FA cup is dying as you say then it has to evolve. Carrying on as we are is not going to work. If replays are so good why not make the ties 2 legs in the earlier rounds?
I still think FA cup has some magic and understand with no clubs having reserve sides early rounds are an opportunity for squad players to have a game. However cant understand why no replays has come in from first round.
There is a problem with congestion at top of game but this is all about number of games in early rounds of European competitions. Was never a problem when top 2/3 qualified but now another needless one has appeared now it is top 6/7. Because UAFA want more and more European countries to have teams in these competitions more and more of early rounds are against teams of our Div 1/2 standard. Never happen but numbers need reducing and replace latest competition with a pre season tournament to replace friendlies. Also far to many meaningless international games including Nations Cup. Farce big countries are drawn in early rounds against Malta/Gilbralta etc who should instead be qualifying.
There is a problem with congestion at top of game but this is all about number of games in early rounds of European competitions. Was never a problem when top 2/3 qualified but now another needless one has appeared now it is top 6/7. Because UAFA want more and more European countries to have teams in these competitions more and more of early rounds are against teams of our Div 1/2 standard. Never happen but numbers need reducing and replace latest competition with a pre season tournament to replace friendlies. Also far to many meaningless international games including Nations Cup. Farce big countries are drawn in early rounds against Malta/Gilbralta etc who should instead be qualifying.
NorthstandRacoon
Well-known member
Surely not? Delusional, and that us me bring kind. Clearly have no knowledge on how our pyramid system work.
WASH
Well-known member
So for those of you with a nervous disposition to stats look away now!! Since hearing from Simon 'The Orange One' Jordan on Talk Sport the other day commenting on how few replays actually involved The Big 6 or even Prem teams against smaller sides and playing Devils Advocate in saying that, although he agreed with the outcry against the removal of replays from the FA Cup (as do I btw despite what this analysis might show) and saying could there be an argument for the proposal that the FA will be distributing a certain amount of money amongst all the Clubs to 'compensate' them from potential losses by not getting the chance of a replay, as the actual number of times the scenario of a bumper payday from a lucrative replay is actually quite small and doesn't happen often.
I've looked at the past 15 seasons as a sample and it does unfortunately show some credence to the fact that big money spinning replays against the Prem sides for lower and non league teams doesn't happen very much and in the case of non league teams it hasn't happened over the period looked at (2009/10 - 2023/24) at all!!
There have been a total of 376 replays from a possible 1564 games (where replays could have happened, the COVID years and removal of replays from certain rounds in certain seasons are excluded) so 24% of games have resulted in replays, in itself a fairly sizeable number... argument for replays. Of those 376, 143 have gone to extra time and 50 have resulted in penalty shootouts.
The split per round as per the table, shows that the higher number of replays occur in rounds 1 (25.5%), 2 (25%) and 6(QF) (25%) however the caveat to the rnd 6 data is it only covers the first 7 years of the data gathering period (7 out of 28 games went to replays before they were scrapped in 2016/17).
When the Prem sides enter in rnd 3 the total number of replays is 97 from a total of 416 possible replay making fixtures (23.3%), 48 of them involving Premier Lge teams (12 of them have been all Prem replays) so 36 matches have involved Prem sides replaying against teams from a lower division and the split of them show that Prem v Champ games = 22 times, Prem v Lge 1 = 10 times and Prem v Lge 2 only 4 times in 15 years (and Liverpool were in 2 of those!, Bolton and Villa the others). No Prem v NL replays though, so no big replay paydays to any non league Clubs over the past 15 years. The total of replays involving Prem Clubs v Lge 1, 2 or NL sides amounts to 8%. So sadly this could be used as a stick to beat the objectors to the removal of replays with when the FA 'say' they will be distributing money to all Clubs, giving everyone something whereas they are, based on the numbers, very unlikely to get anything if they hope for a replay.
Round 4 has seen 46 replays from 208 games and Prem teams (excluding all Prem matches, 5 games) have been involved in 21 of them (51.2%), again, matches v lower league Clubs are few and far between, v Champ = 9 matches, v Lge 1 = 8 games and v Lge 2 4 times.
The 5th round pretty much guaranteed that a Prem team would be involved with them replaying in 12 of the 13 games that needed a second go before they were scrapped in 2018/19. Only 1 of those 12 was an all Prem game so the lower league teams were pretty much assured of being involved in a replay against a top tier team.
Obviously when round 3 comes around and Prem and Champ teams enter the Comp the number of these teams swells the numbers in the draw so the likelehood of Prem v AN Other is reduced and is why the number of Prem v Prem and Prem v Champ replays is increased (6.1% and 10.1% respectively) giving less chance for the dream draw and potential replays occurring.
When looking at the Prem Big 6 teams who have been involved in replays and the Moaning Minnies having to play too many games because of these 'inconvienient' extra games, Spurs have played in the most replays, 10 in 15 years, 5 of them against a fellow Prem team (Champ once, Lge 1 3 times and Lge 2 once). Liverpool are next with 8, (Prem teams twice, Champ x3, Lge 1 once and Lge 2 twice), Man. City and Man. Utd have been involved in 5 replays each, (City 1 v a Prem team, 3 times v Champ and once v a Lge 1 side). 4 of Utd's 5 replays have been against Prem teams and only once in 15 years have they played a replay against anyone lower than this level and that was Lge 2 Cambridge back in rnd 4 2014/15. Chelsea also have played 5 replays (2 Prem, 2 Champ and 1 Lge 1 team). Arsenal total 4 replays (Prem once, Champ twice and Lge 1 once).
So for all the bleating, the Big 6 have only been involved in 6 replays between them in the past 6 seasons (Liverpool 2, Spurs 2, Chelsea 1, Man. Utd 1). Man. City's last replay was in the 5th rnd in 2016/17 and Arsenal was in the same round the season before! 35 Prem Clubs have been involved in replays during this 15 year period and outide the Big 6 the most replays have been played by Wolves 7 (3 against other Prem sides), Fulham 6 (3 v Prem teams), West Ham 6 (4 against Prem teams) and Sunderland 5 (2 against Prem sides).
In conclusion, it would appear that removing replays becasue of the denial of a big payday against a Prem team is difficult to argue based on the numbers as it happens so infrequently so why not get rid of them but as we all know it's not always about the money, for the fans it's the prestige, the excitement of a visit to a Big Prem team's ground or the chance to see big name players come to your little ground, the hope that a major upset is possible and being part of the 'Magic of the FA Cup'. Let's hope there might be some chance of a rethink esp if the collective of Clubs below the Prem get together and say no and take action somehow, maybe even boycott it for at least one season to try and make a point but as we all know the FA don't have the backbone to stand up to the Prem Clubs and as the UEFA Comps expand next season making the Big 6 richer and richer and further away from reality sadly the FA Cup looks destined to be remembered for what it used to be in days gone by.
I've looked at the past 15 seasons as a sample and it does unfortunately show some credence to the fact that big money spinning replays against the Prem sides for lower and non league teams doesn't happen very much and in the case of non league teams it hasn't happened over the period looked at (2009/10 - 2023/24) at all!!
There have been a total of 376 replays from a possible 1564 games (where replays could have happened, the COVID years and removal of replays from certain rounds in certain seasons are excluded) so 24% of games have resulted in replays, in itself a fairly sizeable number... argument for replays. Of those 376, 143 have gone to extra time and 50 have resulted in penalty shootouts.
The split per round as per the table, shows that the higher number of replays occur in rounds 1 (25.5%), 2 (25%) and 6(QF) (25%) however the caveat to the rnd 6 data is it only covers the first 7 years of the data gathering period (7 out of 28 games went to replays before they were scrapped in 2016/17).
When the Prem sides enter in rnd 3 the total number of replays is 97 from a total of 416 possible replay making fixtures (23.3%), 48 of them involving Premier Lge teams (12 of them have been all Prem replays) so 36 matches have involved Prem sides replaying against teams from a lower division and the split of them show that Prem v Champ games = 22 times, Prem v Lge 1 = 10 times and Prem v Lge 2 only 4 times in 15 years (and Liverpool were in 2 of those!, Bolton and Villa the others). No Prem v NL replays though, so no big replay paydays to any non league Clubs over the past 15 years. The total of replays involving Prem Clubs v Lge 1, 2 or NL sides amounts to 8%. So sadly this could be used as a stick to beat the objectors to the removal of replays with when the FA 'say' they will be distributing money to all Clubs, giving everyone something whereas they are, based on the numbers, very unlikely to get anything if they hope for a replay.
Round 4 has seen 46 replays from 208 games and Prem teams (excluding all Prem matches, 5 games) have been involved in 21 of them (51.2%), again, matches v lower league Clubs are few and far between, v Champ = 9 matches, v Lge 1 = 8 games and v Lge 2 4 times.
The 5th round pretty much guaranteed that a Prem team would be involved with them replaying in 12 of the 13 games that needed a second go before they were scrapped in 2018/19. Only 1 of those 12 was an all Prem game so the lower league teams were pretty much assured of being involved in a replay against a top tier team.
Obviously when round 3 comes around and Prem and Champ teams enter the Comp the number of these teams swells the numbers in the draw so the likelehood of Prem v AN Other is reduced and is why the number of Prem v Prem and Prem v Champ replays is increased (6.1% and 10.1% respectively) giving less chance for the dream draw and potential replays occurring.
When looking at the Prem Big 6 teams who have been involved in replays and the Moaning Minnies having to play too many games because of these 'inconvienient' extra games, Spurs have played in the most replays, 10 in 15 years, 5 of them against a fellow Prem team (Champ once, Lge 1 3 times and Lge 2 once). Liverpool are next with 8, (Prem teams twice, Champ x3, Lge 1 once and Lge 2 twice), Man. City and Man. Utd have been involved in 5 replays each, (City 1 v a Prem team, 3 times v Champ and once v a Lge 1 side). 4 of Utd's 5 replays have been against Prem teams and only once in 15 years have they played a replay against anyone lower than this level and that was Lge 2 Cambridge back in rnd 4 2014/15. Chelsea also have played 5 replays (2 Prem, 2 Champ and 1 Lge 1 team). Arsenal total 4 replays (Prem once, Champ twice and Lge 1 once).
So for all the bleating, the Big 6 have only been involved in 6 replays between them in the past 6 seasons (Liverpool 2, Spurs 2, Chelsea 1, Man. Utd 1). Man. City's last replay was in the 5th rnd in 2016/17 and Arsenal was in the same round the season before! 35 Prem Clubs have been involved in replays during this 15 year period and outide the Big 6 the most replays have been played by Wolves 7 (3 against other Prem sides), Fulham 6 (3 v Prem teams), West Ham 6 (4 against Prem teams) and Sunderland 5 (2 against Prem sides).
In conclusion, it would appear that removing replays becasue of the denial of a big payday against a Prem team is difficult to argue based on the numbers as it happens so infrequently so why not get rid of them but as we all know it's not always about the money, for the fans it's the prestige, the excitement of a visit to a Big Prem team's ground or the chance to see big name players come to your little ground, the hope that a major upset is possible and being part of the 'Magic of the FA Cup'. Let's hope there might be some chance of a rethink esp if the collective of Clubs below the Prem get together and say no and take action somehow, maybe even boycott it for at least one season to try and make a point but as we all know the FA don't have the backbone to stand up to the Prem Clubs and as the UEFA Comps expand next season making the Big 6 richer and richer and further away from reality sadly the FA Cup looks destined to be remembered for what it used to be in days gone by.