[Football] FA Cup Final

[Weststander]

Mourinho is totally the wrong manager for United, he has set them back years with his style compared to their traditional fast flowing attacking football and spent obscene amounts doing it

ManC must be happy with his continued appointment. The park the bus football does work in 4 out of 5 games as ManU's equally huge spend has given them match winners, but unluckily for ManU, ManC have the money too and attacking football to go with it.

The snarling, sarcastic interviews, calling out players in public, does not help bridge that gap.

 

[Guinness Boy]

That's the problem though, United second in The Premier League, looked woeful today as they did against us. Paul Pogba could be a giant of a player but no way can he justify his enormous price tag. He looked ordinary today and against us. Jones and Smalling are appalling, I would much rather have Dunk and Duffy. How did they scrape second place? Chelsea are almost as bad, Hazard being the only stand out player.......look what he did against us. I am afraid United are all hype and have been found out against teams who can defend. I like Lingard and Rashford but against world class defenders look inadequate.
Not looking good for England, hope I am wrong but they need to be more at the game than today or else they will be anonymous at the world cup.

Have to agree, how on earth United finished second I've no idea. Jones is going to be a liability at the World Cup and everywhere else he goes. Rashford is just a bit too raw for now though I doubt he'll start in Russia. As much as I want to like Lingard, given his efforts for us and the goal that stopped Dancing Alan he's not what you'd call "world class". Meanwhile, as soon as Chelsea scored they sat deeper than we do. The one moment of class in the whole game decided it and even then Jones's comedy defending had to be involved.

 

[Brovion]

For the first time in years I actually picked a team and watched the Cup Final. I was supporting Man U as they had five Englishmen in their starting line-up whereas Chelsea (who are an English club in name only) only had one. Trouble is they were among the worst five players on the pitch.

And Motherwell and Sussex lost as well. What a shit day.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

That's the problem though, United second in The Premier League, looked woeful today as they did against us. Paul Pogba could be a giant of a player but no way can he justify his enormous price tag. He looked ordinary today and against us. Jones and Smalling are appalling, I would much rather have Dunk and Duffy. How did they scrape second place? Chelsea are almost as bad, Hazard being the only stand out player.......look what he did against us. I am afraid United are all hype and have been found out against teams who can defend. I like Lingard and Rashford but against world class defenders look inadequate.
Not looking good for England, hope I am wrong but they need to be more at the game than today or else they will be anonymous at the world cup.

Pogba is being ruined by Mourinho, same as Rashford, Shaw and Martial. Put Pogba under Pep and he would become the best midfielder in the world by a distance. Likewise Martial is a frightening talent, criminally wasted by his manager. He is also costing England as Shaw and Rashford should be starters in the side this summer but they won’t be as their careers have stalled under Mourinho.

How Jose still has that job I don’t know. He is so out of touch with the modern game it’s laughable

 

[Ernest]

No wonder the FA Cup is dead when the final is like that, should have been a game of attractive football not a war of attrition. I bet WILLY is glad he was stuck at a wedding reception than be forced to watch it

 

[Weststander]

Have to agree, how on earth United finished second I've no idea. Jones is going to be a liability at the World Cup and everywhere else he goes. Rashford is just a bit too raw for now though I doubt he'll start in Russia. As much as I want to like Lingard, given his efforts for us and the goal that stopped Dancing Alan he's not what you'd call "world class". Meanwhile, as soon as Chelsea scored they sat deeper than we do. The one moment of class in the whole game decided it and even then Jones's comedy defending had to be involved.

Your first point was covered by a group of football writers on TV this morning. Because ManU outspent the rest by many £100m's, giving them a great squad, compared to the rest. They said ManU will do the very ManU thing of spending their way out again this summer, on a huge spend to back Mourinho.

IMO there's a great chance that this time next year we'll be looking at the 2 Manchester clubs in the top 2 positions. Have Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal got the money to give them 22 strong players to lift the title?

 

[papajaff]

Think I managed to watch 10 minutes before the boredom set in. Cup Final day used to be a thing to get so excited about. Now just another day. The TV coverage from 12 noon on BBC and ITV. Watch one side and TAPE the other.

But the thing about the cup final was that it was played at the real Wembley. This 'new' Wembley is just another stadium now, very nice but could be anywhere in the world. I went to the last dozen games at the old Stadium and loved going there. The German fans I spoke to at the last game there were just asking why why why we were demolishing a jewel. I could not watch the twin towers of the old girl being demolished. That was a ****ing disgrace to do that.

And the semi finals: at Highbury, Villa, Old T, Hillsborough etc. Now at the poxy new Wembley.

MFIS!

 

[seagulls4ever]

Pogba is being ruined by Mourinho, same as Rashford, Shaw and Martial. Put Pogba under Pep and he would become the best midfielder in the world by a distance. Likewise Martial is a frightening talent, criminally wasted by his manager. He is also costing England as Shaw and Rashford should be starters in the side this summer but they won’t be as their careers have stalled under Mourinho.

How Jose still has that job I don’t know. He is so out of touch with the modern game it’s laughable

Quite a bit of hyberbole in that post!

I know it's fashionable to hate United and Jose, but United are in the best position they've been in since Ferguson left, despite having inherited a mess of a squad. I can quite easily see them winning the title next season with a couple of additions in the summer. He's done well to get them in the position they are with some bang average players. The title race would have been very close had it not been for City's unique season in the league where everything went perfectly for them. Jose won his last Premier League title only 3 years ago, so hardly out of touch. They were clearly the better team yesterday and were very unlucky to lose.

I can't comment on too much on the rest of your post as it's mostly wild speculation, but Shaw's attitude/fitness has not only been criticised by Jose, but also in the past by van Gaal, Hodgson and Pochettino. Alexander-Arnold looks a far better prospect than Shaw as it stands. Shaw had a couple of decent seasons at Southampton when still a teenager, but hasn't progressed. He was never a top player, just someone who looked like he had the potential to become one. It looks unlikely that will happen now, and a lot of that seems to be down to himself not having the necessary drive.

Usually people have a go at fans of other teams for wanting their manager out, calling them entitled etc for expecting instant success, or regular titles, but with Jose it seems it's more fans of other teams who want him out/say he shouldn't still be in a job, rather than the United fans themselves.

I guess if United win the title next season and City once again fail to get close to winning the CL, the fickle football fans will be back to calling Guardiola overrated (as they were last season) and Morihino will be heralded as a genius for providing United's first title since Ferguson left.

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

I managed to sleep through most of the final yesterday. I could say it was because it was very boring but I have feeling that the five hours of drinking in various beer gardens while avoiding the Royal Wedding may have had something to do with it.

 

[Weststander]

Quite a bit of hyberbole in that post!

I know it's fashionable to hate United and Jose, but United are in the best position they've been in since Ferguson left, despite having inherited a mess of a squad. I can quite easily see them winning the title next season with a couple of additions in the summer. He's done well to get them in the position they are with some bang average players. The title race would have been very close had it not been for City's unique season in the league where everything went perfectly for them. Jose won his last Premier League title only 3 years ago, so hardly out of touch. They were clearly the better team yesterday and were very unlucky to lose.

I can't comment on too much on the rest of your post as it's mostly wild speculation, but Shaw's attitude/fitness has not only been criticised by Jose, but also in the past by van Gaal, Hodgson and Pochettino. Alexander-Arnold looks a far better prospect than Shaw as it stands. Shaw had a couple of decent seasons at Southampton when still a teenager, but hasn't progressed. He was never a top player, just someone who looked like he had the potential to become one. It looks unlikely that will happen now, and a lot of that seems to be down to himself not having the necessary drive.

Usually people have a go at fans of other teams for wanting their manager out, calling them entitled etc for expecting instant success, or regular titles, but with Jose it seems it's more fans of other teams who want him out/say he shouldn't still be in a job, rather than the United fans themselves.

I guess if United win the title next season and City once again fail to get close to winning the CL, the fickle football fans will be back to calling Guardiola overrated (as they were last season) and Morihino will be heralded as a genius for providing United's first title since Ferguson left.

Away from Albion wildly guessing from their sofas, this is what ManU fans really think:

 

[seagulls4ever]

Away from Albion wildly guessing from their sofas, this is what ManU fans really think:


View attachment 97088

So 68% of those fans want him to stay? I'm not sure how that goes against what I said?

 

[Weststander]

So 68% of those fans want him to stay? I'm not sure how that goes against what I said?

Exactly, their views, but with a sizeable minority not rating Mourinho. Those criticising Mourinho are therefore not exclusively fans of other clubs. Thousands of comments from ManU fans fuming with him on their forum. I wonder if ManC fans are fearful of Mourinho bringing back the good times of SAF?

 

[seagulls4ever]

Exactly, their views, but with a sizeable minority not rating Mourinho. Those criticising Mourinho are therefore not exclusively fans of other clubs. Thousands of comments from ManU fans fuming with him on their forum. I wonder if ManC fans are fearful of Mourinho bringing back the good times of SAF?

I didn't say those criticising him were exclusively fans of other teams, I said "it seems it's more fans of other teams who want him out/say he shouldn't still be in a job". When you look at comments on football articles/social media, it does appear to be fans of other teams who are shouting the loudest (lots of obsessed trolls/kids I imagine). This seems contrary to situations at other clubs, like Everton, for example, where the majority of Everton fans wanted Allardyce out, but this has received a lot of criticism from fans of other teams (not by me), who say Everton fans were expecting too much.

He only gets this treatment because he's Mourinho/United. Objectively, he's not doing such a bad job. If you look at the players City have compared to United, they are far better. Guardiola inherited a far superior squad, and the club has recruited well. Mourinho's made clear progress since he's been at the club, and as is often said, managers need time - they are usually sacked far too quickly, which is often criticised. The opposite seems to be happening in the case of United/Mourinho.

If there's anyone who can bring back the good times in terms of titles, it's Mourinho. Against the might of City, they'll need his tactical nous to have a chance of winning the title. He's proved time and time again he knows how to win titles. Yes, it's probably partly why fans of rivals are so against him. This (last) season, I get the sense United are a force again. I haven't felt that way about them since Ferguson left.

 

[Weststander]

I didn't say those criticising him were exclusively fans of other teams, I said "it seems it's more fans of other teams who want him out/say he shouldn't still be in a job". When you look at comments on football articles/social media, it does appear to be fans of other teams who are shouting the loudest (lots of obsessed trolls/kids I imagine). This seems contrary to situations at other clubs, like Everton, for example, where the majority of Everton fans wanted Allardyce out, but this has received a lot of criticism from fans of other teams (not by me), who say Everton fans were expecting too much.

He only gets this treatment because he's Mourinho/United. Objectively, he's not doing such a bad job. If you look at the players City have compared to United, they are far better. Guardiola inherited a far superior squad, and the club has recruited well. Mourinho's made clear progress since he's been at the club, and as is often said, managers need time - they are usually sacked far too quickly, which is often criticised. The opposite seems to be happening in the case of United/Mourinho.

If there's anyone who can bring back the good times in terms of titles, it's Mourinho. Against the might of City, they'll need his tactical nous to have a chance of winning the title. He's proved time and time again he knows how to win titles. Yes, it's probably partly why fans of rivals are so against him. This (last) season, I get the sense United are a force again. I haven't felt that way about them since Ferguson left.

Worth a punt then. The betting markets make ManU 7/1, amazing odds. Without the best part of a £B spent each on transfers by ManU and ManC, it's hard to see the others winning the league.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I didn't say those criticising him were exclusively fans of other teams, I said "it seems it's more fans of other teams who want him out/say he shouldn't still be in a job". When you look at comments on football articles/social media, it does appear to be fans of other teams who are shouting the loudest (lots of obsessed trolls/kids I imagine). This seems contrary to situations at other clubs, like Everton, for example, where the majority of Everton fans wanted Allardyce out, but this has received a lot of criticism from fans of other teams (not by me), who say Everton fans were expecting too much.

He only gets this treatment because he's Mourinho/United. Objectively, he's not doing such a bad job. If you look at the players City have compared to United, they are far better. Guardiola inherited a far superior squad, and the club has recruited well. Mourinho's made clear progress since he's been at the club, and as is often said, managers need time - they are usually sacked far too quickly, which is often criticised. The opposite seems to be happening in the case of United/Mourinho.

If there's anyone who can bring back the good times in terms of titles, it's Mourinho. Against the might of City, they'll need his tactical nous to have a chance of winning the title. He's proved time and time again he knows how to win titles. Yes, it's probably partly why fans of rivals are so against him. This (last) season, I get the sense United are a force again. I haven't felt that way about them since Ferguson left.

That is a staunch defence of Mourinho but in reality, having spent about the same as City, they are MILES behind them. The main reason they managed to finish second is De Gea, Lukaku who was an excellent signing has also made a big difference but the rest of United’s players are clearly going backwards under Jose.

I honestly feel Mourinho is having a negative rather than positive impact on United. If they and City had swapped managers at the start of the season, I believe United would have won the league this season. There is just absolutely no way they will win the league next year under Mourinho.

He can’t seem to coach players anymore, they just don’t want to play fo him, and even his individual game tactics which used to be such a strength for him are letting him down as proven yesterday.

He is a total misery these days, his bitter rants to the media seem to show a man on the edge rather than a man in total control as he seemed to be 10-15 years ago. He’s definitely on the decline, it is exactly like watching Arsene Wenger a few years ago. He even named Scott McTominay as his manager’s player of the year based on 5 starts! [emoji23]

 

[seagulls4ever]

That is a staunch defence of Mourinho but in reality, having spent about the same as City, they are MILES behind them. The main reason they managed to finish second is De Gea, Lukaku who was an excellent signing has also made a big difference but the rest of United’s players are clearly going backwards under Jose.

I honestly feel Mourinho is having a negative rather than positive impact on United. If they and City had swapped managers at the start of the season, I believe United would have won the league this season. There is just absolutely no way they will win the league next year under Mourinho.

He can’t seem to coach players anymore, they just don’t want to play fo him, and even his individual game tactics which used to be such a strength for him are letting him down as proven yesterday.

He is a total misery these days, his bitter rants to the media seem to show a man on the edge rather than a man in total control as he seemed to be 10-15 years ago. He’s definitely on the decline, it is exactly like watching Arsene Wenger a few years ago. He even named Scott McTominay as his manager’s player of the year based on 5 starts! [emoji23]

More hyperbole due to a clear agenda against Mourihiho. That's fine, this sort of thing is common among football fans, but it's not worth debating at a serious level. For that reason, I'm out.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

More hyperbole due to a clear agenda against Mourihiho. That's fine, this sort of thing is common among football fans, but it's not worth debating at a serious level. For that reason, I'm out.

‘Not worth debating at a serious level’ - condescending much?!

Other than not liking the way he treats and coaches some of his young players, I’ve no agenda against Mourinho. I don’t support United or City but I know quite a bit about football and can clearly see what is happening there.

The fact that you can’t would suggest I’d be wasting my time trying to debate this with you anyway and I should take my superior football knowledge elsewhere.

 

[Icy Gull]

More hyperbole due to a clear agenda against Mourihiho. That's fine, this sort of thing is common among football fans, but it's not worth debating at a serious level. For that reason, I'm out.

My view is that he is obviously a good manager but totally the wrong fit for United. Their traditional exciting fast flowing attacking philosophy is out the window now. From a board position he’s done a good job but from a fans perspective I reckon plenty of United fans look at Liverpool, who finished below them, and wish they had a Klopp in charge. I suggest that if you have been brought up on the style that United have historically played it must be pretty dull watching them grind out wins and often not start playing until they are losing because Mourinho “doesn’t know how to play with the handbrake off”

 

[Dorset Seagull]

My view is that he is obviously a good manager but totally the wrong fit for United. Their traditional exciting fast flowing attacking philosophy is out the window now. From a board position he’s done a good job but from a fans perspective I reckon plenty of United fans look at Liverpool, who finished below them, and wish they had a Klopp in charge. I suggest that if you have been brought up on the style that United have historically played it must be pretty dull watching them grind out wins and often not start playing until they are losing because Mourinho “doesn’t know how to play with the handbrake off”

It occurred to me the other day that a perfect fit for Man U would actually be smug Eddie. He has always played attractive attacking football and is capable of changing games with his substitutions so has proved to be tactically aware. I think with the spending power at United he would be a success. Perhaps a change from the special one to the smug one one suit Man United

 

[Guinness Boy]

More hyperbole due to a clear agenda against Mourihiho. That's fine, this sort of thing is common among football fans, but it's not worth debating at a serious level. For that reason, I'm out.

Obviously it's only one person but a mate of mine is a massive Red. He had a huge rant on his Facebook yesterday, culminating in this gem:

"Moureen, please stop the pathetic blame game and do one.
Or learn what United have always tried to be about, excitement and the joy of football, you self centred bellend!
Don't hold out much hope on either of those fronts for next season, so likely to be more of the same tedious, turgid, fear ridden crap"

He was in the United end when we played up there and favourably contrasts Hughton who seems to have massive respect in the PL.

Mourinho IS ruining Pogba. He's been shit in every game I've seen him in this season (twice live, several times on telly) and that's too many for a supposedly world class player who cost what he cost. Recruitment is also dubious. As soon as Lukaku got injured they had no focal point at all up front. Even we had the option of Ulloa if something happened to Murray. And I very much agree that they would have struggled even more without De Gea, we all saw at the Amex how he's the best in the business. Second and a cup final is ostensibly ok but at the end of the day it's no trophy and a very poor Champions League campaign by their standards. Plus they lost to all three newly promoted sides.

All the above means it is at least worth debating. The fact that you won't suggests that you can't.