[Albion] FA cup 4th round, Sheffield united

[BenPage]

Can anyone tell me what the likely date of the 4th round vs sheffield will be on and ticketing sales dates by any chance? presumably if on a weekend they would give a large allocation?

cheers.

 

[jackalbion]

In the 90's I used to travel by train to Edinburgh. In 1995, engrained in my mind, was the Super Apex return fare at £27 Edinburgh to/from London. Available 365, you just had to book a few weeks ahead. A good service, no slower than today.

In real terms that's just £53.

Something's gone horribly wrong. It's not train operator profits, they're minute compared to total rail industry cash flows.

Only one person here might know why .... @jackalbion.

Funny you bring this up, as there has been an alteration in the prices from 5th Feb as a pilot on LNER, which is eliminating off peak and super off peak fares, which is a price rise from £87 to £193. This is just price gouging from the companies and DfT. It’s an independent regulator that sets the prices but this what happens when you have a fragmented rail system.

Quite comedically if you need to get a late notice need to go to Newcastle after February you are better off getting a ticket a station further to Manors, which saves you over £100.

This is also being introduced because it means LNER will encourage you to get advance tickets (which will now be dynamically priced) which no longer have the £87 limit, and can keep on rising. The catch is because of the other operators if you get an anytime or off peak ticket you have to share the money you make, but an LNER advance, LNER get all the money. This has come around because basically too many people are getting certain trains but LNER aren’t getting all the profit, and LNER want to spread people across instead of doing what they should do and increase capacity. They are going to sell it like an airline and make it so expensive that walk ups are too expensive and people don’t bother, or they essentially prey on the vulnerable and need to travel.

It’s doing absolutely nothing to help the passenger to make it more inconvinient and more profit. Basically the whole system is a scam, it needs nationalising, but it won’t be. A lot of people don’t really know how it all works, and think the government have nothing to do with it, but they are the only ones who can fix it. For me it’s the DfT essentially doing managed decline, to stop people using the railway instead of investing in improving the system, which is really symptomatic of this whole country at the moment.

 

[Weststander]

Funny you bring this up, as there has been an alteration in the prices from 5th Feb as a pilot on LNER, which is eliminating off peak and super off peak fares, which is a price rise from £87 to £193. This is just price gouging from the companies and DfT. It’s an independent regulator that sets the prices but this what happens when you have a fragmented rail system.

Quite comedically if you need to get a late notice need to go to Newcastle after February you are better off getting a ticket a station further to Manors, which saves you over £100.

This is also being introduced because it means LNER will encourage you to get advance tickets (which will now be dynamically priced) which no longer have the £87 limit, and can keep on rising. The catch is because of the other operators if you get an anytime or off peak ticket you have to share the money you make, but an LNER advance, LNER get all the money. This has come around because basically too many people are getting certain trains but LNER aren’t getting all the profit, and LNER want to spread people across instead of doing what they should do and increase capacity. They are going to sell it like an airline and make it so expensive that walk ups are too expensive and people don’t bother, or they essentially prey on the vulnerable and need to travel.

It’s doing absolutely nothing to help the passenger to make it more inconvinient and more profit. Basically the whole system is a scam, it needs nationalising, but it won’t be. A lot of people don’t really know how it all works, and think the government have nothing to do with it, but they are the only ones who can fix it. For me it’s the DfT essentially doing managed decline, to stop people using the railway instead of investing in improving the system, which is really symptomatic of this whole country at the moment.

Possibly not your field? I’d be interested in the economics of it all, a comparison between say 1995 and 2023. Income from all sources versus cash outflows. With an average adult fare paid per mile on for example 10 popular routes. RPI has doubled, but fares in my experience are on a different planet. Railway company profits/losses a thin slither of the total cake, staff cutbacks, passenger numbers way up, hoi polloi wages modest other than drivers.

WTF is all the extra income being spent on? Infrastructure contributions to Network Rail?

 

[Krafty]

the cup sales seemed to take a while to get going especially as i had previously stated that i thought we may sell as much as double of the cup as the league!
No wonder i am not doing well on the score predictor thread.

How many tickets have we sold so far?

 

[Happy Exile]

That thing about making walk ups so expensive people don't bother to travel seems to be in place already on some lines. The other day I had to go from Bristol to Bath for work, a journey of 1 stop and 11 minutes, and an off peak single was a scandalous £9.20.

 

[HH Brighton]

The sales of the cup tickets have nearly caught up with the league sales.
League 92 left, cup 135 with the whole of the 4 lower blocks open.
I must admit that i was surprised by two things, firstly that we have nearly sold out the league tickets with it being on tele and transport issues and secondly that the cup sales seemed to take a while to get going especially as i had previously stated that i thought we may sell as much as double of the cup as the league!
No wonder i am not doing well on the score predictor thread.

Looks like a great following for both with anyone that wants one able to buy. I went for the league game but might make a late decision on the cup.

 

[Dave the hatosaurus]

How many tickets have we sold so far?

2800 league game and 2760 cup.

 

[jackalbion]

Possibly not your field? I’d be interested in the economics of it all, a comparison between say 1995 and 2023. Income from all sources versus cash outflows. With an average adult fare paid per mile on for example 10 popular routes. RPI has doubled, but fares in my experience are on a different planet. Railway company profits/losses a thin slither of the total cake, staff cutbacks, passenger numbers way up, hoi polloi wages modest other than drivers.

WTF is all the extra income being spent on? Infrastructure contributions to Network Rail?

God knows what the money is being spent on because it certainly isn’t infrastructure or stock. A lot of it is because of increased mileage costs. I did a few studies on it at University on my transport and logistics course., but I’m now working in the timetabling side so have very little to do with fares. I do have to factor a lot of the mileage costs into the timetabling although. There’s been a recast of the west Coastway timetable coming in June 2024, which is to do with reallocation of stock and mileage costs on Southern. It’s a bizarre industry to work in because nothing really makes sense, especially in this country. The whole system with ROSCOs and TOCs need a hammer putting to it, this system plainly, doesn’t work for the customer, and we should with a superb rail network, take it seriously and invest, because it is a serious driver to economic growth when done right. Also the pay increases don’t contribute to the fares going up before anyone asks, they go up regardless.

 

[Bodian]

WTF is all the extra income being spent on? Infrastructure contributions to Network Rail?

It's because every company has to pay every other company for something. Then they have to pay loads of lawyers to argue over payments to other companies, and to argue about whose fault something was. With one nationalised industry you didn't wouldn't have all of this.

 

[Wardy's twin]

This is what we've done, think it worked out at £25 each return with a Family & Friends Railcard.

£25 return ticket , Sheffield to Brighton is an amazing deal given Guinness Boy has paid £61 using a reduction card. Coach is £59...

 

[Charles 'Charley' Charles]

£25 return ticket , Sheffield to Brighton is an amazing deal given Guinness Boy has paid £61 using a reduction card. Coach is £59...

That was 3 adults 3 children using friends and family railcard. First journey 7.28 Brighton to Bedford, Second leg 11.02 Bedford to Sheffield (Split ticket, same train, Bedford to Leicester - Leicester to Sheffield). Coming back at 6.00 pm using the reverse of the above.

The £25 was the average price, think on the breakdown the child’s prices were £2 each for each leg. That was booking through Trainline and direct through Thameslink.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Am I stupid or does that mean 5800 people have 310+ points?

They aren’t mutually exclusive

 

[Guinness Boy]

£25 return ticket , Sheffield to Brighton is an amazing deal given Guinness Boy has paid £61 using a reduction card. Coach is £59...

Via Bedford is cheaper but we’re going via Doncaster to avoid a 45 minute bus ride through Bedfordshire.

I can almost guarantee that no two groups doing this trip by train will have paid exactly the same. The whole system needs re-nationalising and being properly funded.

 

[dazzer6666]

Possibly not your field? I’d be interested in the economics of it all, a comparison between say 1995 and 2023. Income from all sources versus cash outflows. With an average adult fare paid per mile on for example 10 popular routes. RPI has doubled, but fares in my experience are on a different planet. Railway company profits/losses a thin slither of the total cake, staff cutbacks, passenger numbers way up, hoi polloi wages modest other than drivers.

WTF is all the extra income being spent on? Infrastructure contributions to Network Rail?

Accounts are available online……..

 

[Hotchilidog]

God knows what the money is being spent on because it certainly isn’t infrastructure or stock. A lot of it is because of increased mileage costs. I did a few studies on it at University on my transport and logistics course., but I’m now working in the timetabling side so have very little to do with fares. I do have to factor a lot of the mileage costs into the timetabling although. There’s been a recast of the west Coastway timetable coming in June 2024, which is to do with reallocation of stock and mileage costs on Southern. It’s a bizarre industry to work in because nothing really makes sense, especially in this country. The whole system with ROSCOs and TOCs need a hammer putting to it, this system plainly, doesn’t work for the customer, and we should with a superb rail network, take it seriously and invest, because it is a serious driver to economic growth when done right. Also the pay increases don’t contribute to the fares going up before anyone asks, they go up regardless.

The decline has been decades in the making. A spiteful act by John Major in the final months of his failing administration has led to this ridiculous situation. The fact is neither major party genuinely values the rail network and its importance to keeping the country moving and as you correctly state driving economic growth.

Seeing other countries put the travelling public first, with more reliable and affordable services is massively frustrating. Sadly all that matters in this country is the four wheeled vote.

 

[Official Old Man]

Those who went to Marseille via Eurostar and the French OUIGO fast trains know how cheap French trains are.
Randomly put in 6th March rtn 8th March and Lille to Marseille return is £48.71 no changes. Of course this excludes the UK part of the trip which is expensive.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Those who went to Marseille via Eurostar and the French OUIGO fast trains know how cheap French trains are.
Randomly put in 6th March rtn 8th March and Lille to Marseille return is £48.71 no changes. Of course this excludes the UK part of the trip which is expensive.

On the other hand, on my two attempts to get from Rouen to Dieppe by train, separated by about 10 years, the first time the train broke down halfway there and on the more recent occasion it was delayed by half an hour (and was already completely full as a result of a 2hour hole in the timetable between about 2pm and 4pm).
I've also had whichever train company it is that runs trains between Amsterdam and Paris pull the "No your train isn't late, it just doesn't exist at all anymore" bullshit on me.

 

[Hastings gull]

God knows what the money is being spent on because it certainly isn’t infrastructure or stock. A lot of it is because of increased mileage costs. I did a few studies on it at University on my transport and logistics course., but I’m now working in the timetabling side so have very little to do with fares. I do have to factor a lot of the mileage costs into the timetabling although. There’s been a recast of the west Coastway timetable coming in June 2024, which is to do with reallocation of stock and mileage costs on Southern. It’s a bizarre industry to work in because nothing really makes sense, especially in this country. The whole system with ROSCOs and TOCs need a hammer putting to it, this system plainly, doesn’t work for the customer, and we should with a superb rail network, take it seriously and invest, because it is a serious driver to economic growth when done right. Also the pay increases don’t contribute to the fares going up before anyone asks, they go up regardless.

As in the past I bow to your superior knowledge of the industry and enjoy reading your posts. But I do take issue with your last sentence and wonder if this is because you have here a vested interest - your own pay! Of course the fares go up regardless, but surely part of the reason would be to accommodate pay rises - afterall it's a constant answer from any business that if their costs go up paying staff more and cannot be absorbed, then so must what they charge.

 

[jackalbion]

As in the past I bow to your superior knowledge of the industry and enjoy reading your posts. But I do take issue with your last sentence and wonder if this is because you have here a vested interest - your own pay! Of course the fares go up regardless, but surely part of the reason would be to accommodate pay rises - afterall it's a constant answer from any business that if their costs go up paying staff more and cannot be absorbed, then so must what they charge.

I think this is the lack of understanding here, the pay increases aren't factored into the algorithm that increases the fares, I know that for a fact. There's been a 5% fare rise almost every year, the 9% (ish) pay rise that most employees got recently was the first pay rise in almost 5 years. The fare box increases aren't decided by the companies because essentially the train companies can't set the prices. They are heavily regulated by government, as well, the companies are essentially management contracts. GTR is a perfect example if you read it. It's all a bit of a strange system, every part of funding goes through the treasury. The companies currently do not negotiate the pay rises, its the Rail Delivery Group, so as with a normal business if the costs go up they cannot adjust their fares accordingly.

 

[Wardy's twin]

That was 3 adults 3 children using friends and family railcard. First journey 7.28 Brighton to Bedford, Second leg 11.02 Bedford to Sheffield (Split ticket, same train, Bedford to Leicester - Leicester to Sheffield). Coming back at 6.00 pm using the reverse of the above.

The £25 was the average price, think on the breakdown the child’s prices were £2 each for each leg. That was booking through Trainline and direct through Thameslink.

thanks for that breakdown just shows how mental the system is.

 

[Washboard Didgets]

65 tickets left in BL4 (FA Cup)

5 tickets left in BL4 (Premier League)

Wonder if the upper tier blocks will be opened soon?