[Other Sport] F1 2024

[The Colonel]

Brundle called it perfectly with "Welcome to the world of racing Max Verstappen".

 

[AstroSloth]

Because they’re not the same scenario?

Hamilton vs Verstappen was a clear racing incident, whereas this was a clear takeout by Verstappen.

Absolutely deluded lmao. Hamilton lets off on the wheel and ends up colliding with Verstappen and was all down to him.

He could have turned right to hit the apex but wanted to squeeze Max instead.

 

[Flounce]

Absolutely deluded lmao. Hamilton lets off on the wheel and ends up colliding with Verstappen and was all down to him.

He could have turned right to hit the apex but wanted to squeeze Max instead.

Given how Max drives under pressure it was exactly what Max deserved. Not the trip to hospital obviously. Even so when his car ended up on top of Hamilton’s he didn’t even stop to check if Lewis was OK as he walked away. The guy may be a great driver but he is also a ****

 

[JackB247]

Fantastic interview with Andrea Stella explaining why today happened because his previous incidents were not properly punished. Eg. Brazil 2021.

Lando has been treating Max like an extra teammate because of their personal friendship - I personally don't want to see that in F1 given the limited number of cars who are actually competitive each weekend.

Hopefully today will end that.

 

[AstroSloth]

Given how Max drives under pressure it was exactly what Max deserved. Not the trip to hospital obviously. Even so when his car ended up on top of Hamilton’s he didn’t even stop to check if Lewis was OK as he walked away. The guy may be a great driver but he is also a ****

When his car ended up on top of Hamilton's Hamilton was still revving his car trying to move.

I think that's pretty obvious that he's okay at that point and checking in when tensions are that high isn't a great idea.

 

[Audax]

I didn't see people saying this when Hamilton put Verstappen in the wall and hospital at Silverstone lmao.

Lots of people who follow F1 spoke negatively about Hamilton after that incident. If you didn't see it / don't remember it, you weren't paying enough attention. It was Hamilton's mistake. But it was exactly that: a one off mistake in a fraught and close battle against another driver who never gives an inch.

Max, on the other hand, has form. He has form for making very late, borderline dangerous, defensive moves that go unpunished. Because he has form for doing that, other drivers trying to overtake him also tend to resort to low percentage overtaking attempts (as Lando had). Max also has form for causing collisions while defending. And, finally, he most definitely has form for denying any responsibility for causing contact - something that Horner and the rest of Red Bull facilitate through how they accept Verstappen's refusal to take blame.

Stella is absolutely right: what happened during that race was a direct consequence of the FIA's failure to properly enforce the rules on Verstappen in previous seasons. Not just 2021 - it goes all the way back to his time at STR.

Verstappen is not a driver that other drivers can trust when under pressure. His mindset that combines "I must win" with "I'm better than them, how dare they challenge me" too frequently results in driving standards that are not good enough for someone who has his talent. He simply doesn't handle being put under the sort of pressure Lando put him under very well. If McLaren continues to be close enough for Lando to challenge Max, I have no doubt this won't be the last time this season we see them clash. Lando put down a marker that says "you don't intimidate me". Max won't accept that.

 

[Shippers]

I didn't see people saying this when Hamilton put Verstappen in the wall and hospital at Silverstone lmao.

LH did miss the apex that day, but look at replays, there was still space on the outside for MV, but he turned in on LH.
Max could have avoided the crash, but like always never gives an inch but this time was on outside and got what he deserved.
The hospital trip was only precautionary, he was fine, Redbull just made a meal of it as couldn't accept Max messed up again.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Lots of people who follow F1 spoke negatively about Hamilton after that incident. If you didn't see it / don't remember it, you weren't paying enough attention. It was Hamilton's mistake. But it was exactly that: a one off mistake in a fraught and close battle against another driver who never gives an inch.

Max, on the other hand, has form. He has form for making very late, borderline dangerous, defensive moves that go unpunished. Because he has form for doing that, other drivers trying to overtake him also tend to resort to low percentage overtaking attempts (as Lando had). Max also has form for causing collisions while defending. And, finally, he most definitely has form for denying any responsibility for causing contact - something that Horner and the rest of Red Bull facilitate through how they accept Verstappen's refusal to take blame.

Stella is absolutely right: what happened during that race was a direct consequence of the FIA's failure to properly enforce the rules on Verstappen in previous seasons. Not just 2021 - it goes all the way back to his time at STR.

Verstappen is not a driver that other drivers can trust when under pressure. His mindset that combines "I must win" with "I'm better than them, how dare they challenge me" too frequently results in driving standards that are not good enough for someone who has his talent. He simply doesn't handle being put under the sort of pressure Lando put him under very well. If McLaren continues to be close enough for Lando to challenge Max, I have no doubt this won't be the last time this season we see them clash. Lando put down a marker that says "you don't intimidate me". Max won't accept that.

Absolutely this. The primary cause of yesterday was RB's and MV's refusal to accept any blame for any incident, ever, even when he has time penalties and sanctions applied. It's never their fault.

Until someone deals with the underlying cause - which Red Bull show no signs of doing and Jos certainly won't - we can expect to see repeat behaviour for many races to come. That isn't a bad thing though, at least it's competitive now. F1 is always better with a bit of needle.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Lots of people who follow F1 spoke negatively about Hamilton after that incident. If you didn't see it / don't remember it, you weren't paying enough attention. It was Hamilton's mistake. But it was exactly that: a one off mistake in a fraught and close battle against another driver who never gives an inch.

Max, on the other hand, has form. He has form for making very late, borderline dangerous, defensive moves that go unpunished. Because he has form for doing that, other drivers trying to overtake him also tend to resort to low percentage overtaking attempts (as Lando had). Max also has form for causing collisions while defending. And, finally, he most definitely has form for denying any responsibility for causing contact - something that Horner and the rest of Red Bull facilitate through how they accept Verstappen's refusal to take blame.

Stella is absolutely right: what happened during that race was a direct consequence of the FIA's failure to properly enforce the rules on Verstappen in previous seasons. Not just 2021 - it goes all the way back to his time at STR.

Verstappen is not a driver that other drivers can trust when under pressure. His mindset that combines "I must win" with "I'm better than them, how dare they challenge me" too frequently results in driving standards that are not good enough for someone who has his talent. He simply doesn't handle being put under the sort of pressure Lando put him under very well. If McLaren continues to be close enough for Lando to challenge Max, I have no doubt this won't be the last time this season we see them clash. Lando put down a marker that says "you don't intimidate me". Max won't accept that.

I'm not sure if I've said this before but I really enjoy your f1 posts. They're excellent!

 

[Audax]

I hadn't seen this angle (only watched C4 highlights). Absolute slam dunk that it was Verstappen's fault, though. View from above the incident, where it's obvious that Verstappen firstly makes a late move to cover the inside, then realises Norris hasn't gone that way and fades back across to the outside within the braking zone before making contact.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Lots of people who follow F1 spoke negatively about Hamilton after that incident. If you didn't see it / don't remember it, you weren't paying enough attention. It was Hamilton's mistake. But it was exactly that: a one off mistake in a fraught and close battle against another driver who never gives an inch.

Max, on the other hand, has form. He has form for making very late, borderline dangerous, defensive moves that go unpunished. Because he has form for doing that, other drivers trying to overtake him also tend to resort to low percentage overtaking attempts (as Lando had). Max also has form for causing collisions while defending. And, finally, he most definitely has form for denying any responsibility for causing contact - something that Horner and the rest of Red Bull facilitate through how they accept Verstappen's refusal to take blame.

Stella is absolutely right: what happened during that race was a direct consequence of the FIA's failure to properly enforce the rules on Verstappen in previous seasons. Not just 2021 - it goes all the way back to his time at STR.

Verstappen is not a driver that other drivers can trust when under pressure. His mindset that combines "I must win" with "I'm better than them, how dare they challenge me" too frequently results in driving standards that are not good enough for someone who has his talent. He simply doesn't handle being put under the sort of pressure Lando put him under very well. If McLaren continues to be close enough for Lando to challenge Max, I have no doubt this won't be the last time this season we see them clash. Lando put down a marker that says "you don't intimidate me". Max won't accept that.

Max and his father have one thing in common. Both are right shits. One difference is that Max apparently does have a friend, where as Jos was despised by all.

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

Absolutely this. The primary cause of yesterday was RB's and MV's refusal to accept any blame for any incident, ever, even when he has time penalties and sanctions applied. It's never their fault.

Until someone deals with the underlying cause - which Red Bull show no signs of doing and Jos certainly won't - we can expect to see repeat behaviour for many races to come. That isn't a bad thing though, at least it's competitive now. F1 is always better with a bit of needle.

Not defending RB or Max here but maybe it is like football - managers will publicly defend their players while what they say to them in the dressing room is very different. I would also think Horner is trying to avoid yet another public spat with Jos V who clearly has an agenda and, if I was Max, I'd be telling to pipe down and let me fight my own battles.

 

[Audax]

Not defending RB or Max here but maybe it is like football - managers will publicly defend their players while what they say to them in the dressing room is very different. I would also think Horner is trying to avoid yet another public spat with Jos V who clearly has an agenda and, if I was Max, I'd be telling to pipe down and let me fight my own battles.

Not in the case of Red Bull. They are an enabler for Verstappen's worst side through failure to address it. It was the same with Vettel when he was winning titles for them as well. Case studies: For Vettel, the way Horner / the team presented the Vettel/Webber Turkey 2010 as being Webber's fault (clearly wasn't). The poor handling on that ultimately led to things like the "Multi 21" incident, with Vettel feeling that he could just ignore team orders and do what he liked (and again the way the team handled that afterwards). For Verstappen, you've got the clash with Ricciardo in Baku where the team levelled the blame on Ricciardo - that ultimately was probably the catalyst for Ricciardo deciding to leave to go to Renault and over the years has probably cost Red Bull a lot of WCC points (as they've never had anywhere near as good as "Red Bull Ricciardo" in their second car since then).

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Not defending RB or Max here but maybe it is like football - managers will publicly defend their players while what they say to them in the dressing room is very different. I would also think Horner is trying to avoid yet another public spat with Jos V who clearly has an agenda and, if I was Max, I'd be telling to pipe down and let me fight my own battles.

Your point has merit. After all, team radio is mostly used to grass on other drivers in the hope they get penalised. That said, Red Bull from Christian Horner downwards are all so fawning over Max I can't see them being different behind closed doors. To an extent, I don't blame them either as he for all his faults is a superb driver. On pace alone, he shouldn't have been able to win the previous 2 GPs but somehow he did. I guess they are prepared to tolerate anything if he carries on winning.

 

[Flounce]

I hadn't seen this angle (only watched C4 highlights). Absolute slam dunk that it was Verstappen's fault, though. View from above the incident, where it's obvious that Verstappen firstly makes a late move to cover the inside, then realises Norris hasn't gone that way and fades back across to the outside within the braking zone before making contact.

He really is an irresponsible bully driver, I hope Lando keeps pushing him as hard. The FIA will have to properly points penalise him if he carries on driving like he did yesterday when under pressure, surely? A few seconds in race penalty is not enough.

 

[Audax]

He really is an irresponsible bully driver, I hope Lando keeps pushing him as hard. The FIA will have to properly points penalise him if he carries on driving like he did yesterday when under pressure, surely? A few seconds in race penalty is not enough.

It won't be points ... it'll be a race ban following accumulation of penalty points. 12 points = an automatic race ban. Verstappen has 4; 2 that expire 19th November, and 2 more from yesterday that expire in a year. Generally causing a collision will attract 2 points, so he's got 3 more where he'll "get away with it". The problem is that the stewards get reluctant to hand them out if drivers get close to triggering the ban.

Magnussen is currently on 10 and *none* of them expire this year. Alonso (all earned this year), Perez (all earned last year and start expiring in Sept), and Sargeant all on 8 (6 earned last year and start expiring in September).

 

[Me Atome]

This very much has the mid-career Schumacher look about it. "If I can't win, my only serious competitor won't either."

 

[Flounce]

It won't be points ... it'll be a race ban following accumulation of penalty points. 12 points = an automatic race ban. Verstappen has 4; 2 that expire 19th November, and 2 more from yesterday that expire in a year. Generally causing a collision will attract 2 points, so he's got 3 more where he'll "get away with it". The problem is that the stewards get reluctant to hand them out if drivers get close to triggering the ban.

Magnussen is currently on 10 and *none* of them expire this year. Alonso (all earned this year), Perez (all earned last year and start expiring in Sept), and Sargeant all on 8 (6 earned last year and start expiring in September).

Six dangerous driving let offs before a ban, that is ridiculous, no wonder he clearly didn’t give a shit yesterday.

Hopefully one of Lando, Piastri, Russell, Hamilton, Le Clerc and Sainz can all run him close over the next few races and put him in the same situation as yesterday every race from here on in.

I can dream

 

[Guinness Boy]

This is very much spot on.

 

[indy3050]

This is very much spot on.

A very good point. At that moment I certainly wasn’t aware that Lando had a puncture although it was obvious Max had a problem and yes he DID clearly move across to stop Lando passing, forcing him onto the grass. Stop him at any cost… Max certainly has that Schumacher mindset.