Tedious season alert
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[Other Sport] F1 2023
- Thread starter Audax
- Start date
JackB247
Well-known member
There isn't going to be a fight at the front this season based on that, very dull race.
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
If we could bin off red bull then we might have a fun season. Alonso and Hamilton going toe to toe 15 years after the last time would be pretty fun to watch.
- Thread starter
- #124
Verstappen talking up the chances of Alonso winning a race this year. Suggesting the Aston is close enough that if there's a circuit that suits the Aston more than the Red Bull then they'll be in the hunt.
I enjoyed that race (if you ignore Verstappen romping away). Aston, Ferrari, and Mercedes all look to be fighting over second fastest. Merc the weakest of those 3 though.
Still think the wind tunnel and cfd penalty RBR have for this year will come into play later in the season. Especially if Aston use their tunnel time well first half of the season.
I enjoyed that race (if you ignore Verstappen romping away). Aston, Ferrari, and Mercedes all look to be fighting over second fastest. Merc the weakest of those 3 though.
Still think the wind tunnel and cfd penalty RBR have for this year will come into play later in the season. Especially if Aston use their tunnel time well first half of the season.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
If that was the template for the season, I may well lose interest for the first time ever. Mercedes appear to have dropped an unforgivable ricket with their lack of progress which has both drivers accepting they have no chance of winning races already. Aston with more than 50% Merc components progress over the winter must be a source of great embarrassment to Mercedes, who have lost quite a few top people I think?
I can see Red Bull disappearing into the sunset every race. One or both Ferraris breaking down most races, Aston picking up the pieces and Mercedes hoping that the McClarens keep breaking down so they occasionally have a sniff of the podium.
Let’s see what the next race brings.
I can see Red Bull disappearing into the sunset every race. One or both Ferraris breaking down most races, Aston picking up the pieces and Mercedes hoping that the McClarens keep breaking down so they occasionally have a sniff of the podium.
Let’s see what the next race brings.
JJ McClure
Go Jags
Luckily enough the TV cameras ignored the fizzy drink cars for the majority of the race and so the rest of it was actually quite good, with plenty of overtakes going on. Not sure why Mclaren bothered to keep Lando going when surely stopping him and saving mileage on the engine components would've been sensible. Also bonus comedy points for Ocon racking up the multiple time penalties.
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 8,622
May as well award Max the title now.
- Thread starter
- #128
It's possible Bahrain exaggerated Red Bull's advantage. They clearly have the best car, but it appears they may have been in a better place to deal with some unique demands at Bahrain - and thus the advantage may be smaller at other circuits. I'm also still expecting RBR to be dragged back as the season progresses. The other teams all have a lot more wind tunnel and CFD time for working on new developments, which should translate (for at least one team) into closing the gap. Aston probably best placed to do that - being 2nd fastest (race pace) already and having only finished 7th in the WCC last season means they have a significant development time advantage to start this season. They just need to use it well (which, I hope, they should - they've got Dan Fallows properly embedded in the team now, along with some other very good hires).
Mark Hughes: Hints Bahrain walkover may not be 2023 template - The Race
Red Bull's Bahrain GP dominance was ominous but it's unlikely the factors that served it so well will be as influential on the rest of F1 2023
the-race.com
Mercedes definitely in trouble. Based on 1 data point, we're looking at a pecking order something like this:
1. Red Bull - even if the utter dominance of Bahrain was circuit-specific, they're out front.
2. Aston Martin - Alonso didn't get the best from Q, and was compromised in the race. A clean race and P3 was his even without the Leclerc DNF.
3. Ferrari - Quick over 1 lap (very nearly RBR quick), but suffering with high tyre degradation that drops them back for the race.
4. Mercedes - Nope, not good enough (yet?)
5. Alpine - Don't think we saw the best of them at Bahrain. Gasly poor Q result but raced well, Ocon good Q result but WTF?! race. Expecting both cars to regularly make Q3 and score points in future races.
Bottom 5 are very hard for me to separate out. In qually trim, 5 teams dropped out of Q1.
6. Alfa Romeo - probably 6th best - they got both cars to Q2 although Zhou was in that mix to be dropped, however Bottas had a strong race to claim a solid 8th.
?. McLaren - I just don't know. Norris was lucky to get out of Q1, but then put together a much better lap in Q2 to start 11th. But Norris clearly had a car issue from very early in the race, and Piastri was making good progress until his gearbox failure. Might be looking at a McLaren that qualifies badly but races better (reliability allowing) until they can get some upgrades on the car (big package due for race 4 at Baku, apparently).
?. Williams - Albon worked some qually magic, and then both raced strongly around that 10th place (which Albon claimed thanks to Leclerc's failure).
?. AlphaTauri - Look to me like they'll be in that Q1-exit battle frequently, but are in that mid field fight in the race. Better than Haas, but not a shoe-in to fight for points.
?. Haas - Hulkenberg amazing in qually. Magnussen given a Haas strategy head-scratcher to start the race on hards. Hulk dropped back rapidly in the race. Have to think they're towards the back on that performance, but there clearly must be some pace in that car for Hulk to get it to Q3.
JJ McClure
Go Jags
- Thread starter
- #130
It doesn't - which does mean RBR can spend the money they can't spend on Wind Tunnel / CFD on other things, which could allow them to claw back some of the deficit. I'm still expecting them to struggle to develop the car at the same rate they managed last year. Wind Tunnel and CFD are *so* important in modern F1, if you've got money to spend, then you spend it on wind tunnel / CFD first where possible.
Take a look at McLaren, for example: a lot of their struggles are being put down to the fact their current wind tunnel is outdated. They've got a new one coming, but it won't be ready for a while - current expectation is that it'll be ready for using on the 2025 car.
EliasTaproot
Active member
- Oct 31, 2022
- 70
Ugh, a shame for the season to be so uncompetitive up top, I can't stand Max. I understand that people hated Merc when they were dominant but I mean, at least Hamilton seems like a generally decent guy. I don't hate Max because he wins/is dominating, I cannot stand him because he seems like a massive dick, plus his dad is a complete tosser. Given how utterly dominant they now are, it makes it even stupider that Masi rigged the finale to hand the title to Max when he is now going to win the next however many.
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
That was like a real life version of me playing F1 on the playstation.
Esteban, you have a penalty for not starting the race in the right position.
Esteban you have another penalty for not serving the first one properly.
Esteban you have a third penalty for speeding in the pit lane while trying to serve your penalty for not serving your first penalty properly.
Esteban we're retiring the car...
- Thread starter
- #133
He didn't deliberately rig it. What he did was panic under pressure and cocked up (multiple times). If you trace all the way back to the first incorrect decision he made (not ordering lapped cars to overtake as soon as it was safe to do so on lap 56) and then correct it, you'd get the same end outcome of Verstappen being right behind Hamilton with a big tyre advantage for a 1 lap shootout.
The whole thing was a massive mess, but the controversy would have been entirely avoided if on lap 56 they'd ordered lapped cars to overtake; both Mercedes and Red Bull were expecting it and were surprised when the opposite decision was made. If lapped cars had been allowed to pass on lap 56, then the safety car is withdrawn (correctly, according to the rules) at the end of lap 57 and you get a 1 lap shootout on lap 58. Instead, Masi bottled it and made the decision to not allow lapped cars to overtake, and then doubled down on that mistake by allowing Red Bull to brow-beat him into bending the rules to get that 1 lap of racing.
Strikes me the best investment Alpine can make isn't in a wind tunnel, it's in a new stopwatch to accurately measure 5 second increments
The race was a snoozefest, I was hoping based on the practice sessions that Alonso might have been able to mix it with the Red Bulls but there was no contest. F1 have done a great job publicising the sport in recent years but these new regulations haven't seemingly acheived the desired effect of bringing the field closer together - which will mean casual fans will lose interest quite quickly.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
Refusing to let Perez to pass him to win a race was the moment I lost any lingering respect for the twat
- Thread starter
- #137
If you only watched it to see who would win, I agree. Otherwise ... take the Red Bull's out of the equation and it was a cracking race. Alonso's overtakes to claim 3rd were worth the watch alone, but there was plenty of action throughout the grid (ignoring Red Bull).
Even if we don't ignore Red Bull, there's not been much talk of it but Verstappen had some sort of issue in his car. Was hoping for a repeat of last year and a late-race failure taking him out of the race.
There were a few decent battles, Alonso's overtake on Hamilton was a thing of beauty, however unless you support a specific team I'd imagine the majority of viewers are most interested in who wins/who will win the championship. Max winning the championship seems pretty much guaranteed to me after 1 race, even if RB do experience a few reliability issues like last year... That can't be good for the sport.
- Thread starter
- #139
Some hope for McLaren fans from Baku onwards? James Key sounds optimistic in this article:
www.motorsport.com
How a 15mm difference triggered McLaren's F1 2023 woes
McLaren technical director James Key says that the team's current problems result from a late change of aerodynamic philosophy triggered by the 2023 Formula 1 rule changes.
www.motorsport.com
dolphins
Well-known member
This, except you forgot to mention the even bigger dick that is Horner, plus the others in Red Bull. Very unlikable team generally.
I did think it quite amusing that apart from the start and the chequered flag, I don't recall seeing RB on screen during the race. Made it a bit more bearable.