[Other Sport] F1 2022

[Normal Rob]

He is the ultimate whinger. Constantly complaining to the officials.

You're right. I'm not sure that Horner is smug as such, but he is an incessantly whinging, tedious little pr***.
As for banging Ginger Spice, that probably the only thing I like him for as the fugly, annoying slap no longer needs to infest our living rooms due to her easy meal ticket.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

See, I don't get the Horner smugness, Lewis smugness is in a different league IMO.

I think it has been exaggerated through social media because people don't like the fact he is banging the arse out of ginger spice.

He is often slagged off just because he is on the opposing team to Lewis, Horner is not smug at all IMO, and he always talks a lot of sense.

At last you admit Lewis is in another league to everyone else!

I think he's smug but maybe that's the wrong word to describe the whinging, bitter losing, worse winning bellend.

 

[AstroSloth]

He is the ultimate whinger. Constantly complaining to the officials.

Horner massively plays it up for the camera. He's the ultimate heel in all of F1. Him and Toto last season both did the same, especially with drive to survive being about.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

At last you admit Lewis is in another league to everyone else!

You have got me there.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

The big question- is Russell just flat out faster than Hamilton, or does the car car setup just suit Russell better?

Russell has youth on his side and his reactions will be faster at that age. Lewis has experience and is likely to be more cautious.

Time will tell I guess, and Merc May well prioritise Hamilton whenever they get a chance - for this season at least.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

The big question- is Russell just flat out faster than Hamilton, or does the car car setup just suit Russell better?

Russell has youth on his side and his reactions will be faster at that age. Lewis has experience and is likely to be more cautious.

Time will tell I guess, and Merc May well prioritise Hamilton whenever they get a chance - for this season at least.

Was Hamilton faster than Bottas or was it setup?



I am glad at least 2 hamilton fans are not sulking out there, fair play to you sir.

 

[Icy Gull]

The big question- is Russell just flat out faster than Hamilton, or does the car car setup just suit Russell better?

Russell has youth on his side and his reactions will be faster at that age. Lewis has experience and is likely to be more cautious.

Time will tell I guess, and Merc May well prioritise Hamilton whenever they get a chance - for this season at least.

Russell has done really well under the circumstances. Hamilton has been hampered by a number of things so far. Unless he has lost the fire in his belly I expect him to better Russell over the season. Not much chance of either of them being any better than mid field as things stand though. It's a long season though. The McClarens with a Merc engine currently have a better sorted car so I am hoping Norris can carry on improving

 

[Bold Seagull]

Russell has done really well under the circumstances. Hamilton has been hampered by a number of things so far. Unless he has lost the fire in his belly I expect him to better Russell over the season. Not much chance of either of them being any better than mid field as things stand though. It's a long season though. The McClarens with a Merc engine currently have a better sorted car so I am hoping Norris can carry on improving

Russell has done really well, but I think it is likely that Mercedes are running different parts / trims / settings on the cars as they desperately rush to work out what they can do to resolve their issues - I doubt they've run the same set up on both cars at any point so that they collect as much data as possible. Hamilton was faster at the last Grand Prix, only a pit stop under the SC put Russell in front of him. This weekend it's been all Russell. I think it's different from the McLarens where Norris appears to be faster than Ricciardo at each weekend so far, they probably are trying different things, but Norris is just quicker. However, all that aside, Red Bull and Ferraris are in a class of their own in terms of pace. If Ferrari improve their obvious porpoising, they might get even faster.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Russell has done really well, but I think it is likely that Mercedes are running different parts / trims / settings on the cars as they desperately rush to work out what they can do to resolve their issues - I doubt they've run the same set up on both cars at any point so that they collect as much data as possible. Hamilton was faster at the last Grand Prix, only a pit stop under the SC put Russell in front of him. This weekend it's been all Russell. I think it's different from the McLarens where Norris appears to be faster than Ricciardo at each weekend so far, they probably are trying different things, but Norris is just quicker. However, all that aside, Red Bull and Ferraris are in a class of their own in terms of pace. If Ferrari improve their obvious porpoising, they might get even faster.

Well Russell has out qualified Hamilton twice so at the least it looks pretty close [emoji2369]

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well Russell has out qualified Hamilton twice so at the least it looks pretty close [emoji2369]

All I’m trying to say is that they’re trying so hard to unlock the potential in the car, the setups etc will be almost like 2 different cars from 2 different teams. Think we’re seeing this in a couple of cases where within teams the qualifying gaps are unusually big. Hard to tell this weekend with the weather, but a lot of data harvesting going on for a few of the teams. Others the margins are closer so you can see they’re fine tuning rather than looking for big significant changes.

 

[Audax]

The big question- is Russell just flat out faster than Hamilton, or does the car car setup just suit Russell better?

Russell has youth on his side and his reactions will be faster at that age. Lewis has experience and is likely to be more cautious.

Time will tell I guess, and Merc May well prioritise Hamilton whenever they get a chance - for this season at least.

Personally, I think how they've each managed having an off-the-pace Merc is down to their individual histories.

Russell - He's been driving that terrible Williams car. He's used to working hard to figure out how to get the best out of a car that simply isn't "there". The Merc is still a better car than what he had last year (relative to the competition), so mentally I suspect he's better placed to press on with figuring out how to get the best he can from he's got under him.

Hamilton - He's been driving title-winning cars for multiple seasons. Cars that have worked for him and that he's been able to jump into and push hard. In many of those seasons, his only real competition has been Bottas, so he's been able to largely drive within himself and within the car - not needing to explore the boundaries of where "100%" actually lies. This season is different. The car isn't there, finding 100% is required, and I think he's not yet got himself into that zone yet.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Personally, I think how they've each managed having an off-the-pace Merc is down to their individual histories.

Russell - He's been driving that terrible Williams car. He's used to working hard to figure out how to get the best out of a car that simply isn't "there". The Merc is still a better car than what he had last year (relative to the competition), so mentally I suspect he's better placed to press on with figuring out how to get the best he can from he's got under him.

Hamilton - He's been driving title-winning cars for multiple seasons. Cars that have worked for him and that he's been able to jump into and push hard. In many of those seasons, his only real competition has been Bottas, so he's been able to largely drive within himself and within the car - not needing to explore the boundaries of where "100%" actually lies. This season is different. The car isn't there, finding 100% is required, and I think he's not yet got himself into that zone yet.

Yeah I can see that side of it- I think that’s part of it. However- I think there may also be some collective denial out there that Russell may just be flat out quicker than LH. He will have quicker reactions and less fear as a younger driver- however may also be prone to more mistakes than LH due to lack of experience.

I’m open to the idea that in 2022 he is simply a faster driver than a 37 year old LH - let’s see how it goes.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Personally, I think how they've each managed having an off-the-pace Merc is down to their individual histories.

Russell - He's been driving that terrible Williams car. He's used to working hard to figure out how to get the best out of a car that simply isn't "there". The Merc is still a better car than what he had last year (relative to the competition), so mentally I suspect he's better placed to press on with figuring out how to get the best he can from he's got under him.

Hamilton - He's been driving title-winning cars for multiple seasons. Cars that have worked for him and that he's been able to jump into and push hard. In many of those seasons, his only real competition has been Bottas, so he's been able to largely drive within himself and within the car - not needing to explore the boundaries of where "100%" actually lies. This season is different. The car isn't there, finding 100% is required, and I think he's not yet got himself into that zone yet.

I do like your F1 posts. I often read them and think "I hadn't thought of that but it makes a lot of sense". Same with this one.

Russell is used to a dog of a car, trying to out qualify his team mate, and overtaking / being overtaken / using the pits to his advantage from the back or midfield. Hamilton just isn't.

I do think some of Lewis's spark has gone as well, though. Bad enough being basically denied an 8th title by a strange decision from Masi but to then go straight into an uncompetitive car - we could be seeing the beginning of the end here.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Yeah I can see that side of it- I think that’s part of it. However- I think there may also be some collective denial out there that Russell may just be flat out quicker than LH. He will have quicker reactions and less fear as a younger driver- however may also be prone to more mistakes than LH due to lack of experience.

I’m open to the idea that in 2022 he is simply a faster driver than a 37 year old LH - let’s see how it goes.

Yep, Russell could be quicker in this car and setup, but far too early to suggest it's denial when so many other things are at work when the issues with the car are so obvious. As Russell has subsequently said, he suffered real back and chest pain from the porpoising on Sunday - perhaps you are right, his tolerance for a bit of a pig of a car is far higher than Hamilton's. But let's not forget in Australia and Bahrain LH out qualified GR and was quicker in the races with only the good fortune of a SC pit stop in Australia changing their positions.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Yep, Russell could be quicker in this car and setup, but far too early to suggest it's denial when so many other things are at work when the issues with the car are so obvious. As Russell has subsequently said, he suffered real back and chest pain from the porpoising on Sunday - perhaps you are right, his tolerance for a bit of a pig of a car is far higher than Hamilton's. But let's not forget in Australia and Bahrain LH out qualified GR and was quicker in the races with only the good fortune of a SC pit stop in Australia changing their positions.

Yes sure all fair points.

And I do think GR is expecting a No. 2 role- at least this season while he embeds in the team and doesn’t want to ruffle any feathers. I expect Merc to prioritise LH / give him some sort of No 1 status- to some extent. So that could dilute the impact of GR’s pure pace this season.

Will be interesting to see whether LH does another season in 2023 and if he holds on to No 1 status if he does.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Yes sure all fair points.

And I do think GR is expecting a No. 2 role- at least this season while he embeds in the team and doesn’t want to ruffle any feathers. I expect Merc to prioritise LH / give him some sort of No 1 status- to some extent. So that could dilute the impact of GR’s pure pace this season.

Will be interesting to see whether LH does another season in 2023 and if he holds on to No 1 status if he does.

My feeling at the moment is that they're both effectively test drivers at present because rather than accepting the car and making the best of it, Mercedes will be going all out in the background trying to find a magic fix, and much of what they're doing is trying things and data collecting their impact. One week it may mean Hamilton looks faster, the next week Russell, but it might just be what they're trying on the cars.

At some point Mercedes will have to accept defeat in finding a magic fix and will just have to tweak and make the best of it. Right now I think they still believe they can unlock something and challenge, even though publicly they're righting a challenge off. They're probably thinking back to the rule change in 2009 that saw Brawn win, but Red Bull unlock the potential of their car through the season.

 

[Audax]

Yeah I can see that side of it- I think that’s part of it. However- I think there may also be some collective denial out there that Russell may just be flat out quicker than LH. He will have quicker reactions and less fear as a younger driver- however may also be prone to more mistakes than LH due to lack of experience.

I’m open to the idea that in 2022 he is simply a faster driver than a 37 year old LH - let’s see how it goes.

Agree with this as well. GR is something special. Exactly how special, we'll need to wait to see - but I'm not surprised to see him ahead of LH at this point.

I do like your F1 posts. I often read them and think "I hadn't thought of that but it makes a lot of sense". Same with this one.

Russell is used to a dog of a car, trying to out qualify his team mate, and overtaking / being overtaken / using the pits to his advantage from the back or midfield. Hamilton just isn't.

I do think some of Lewis's spark has gone as well, though. Bad enough being basically denied an 8th title by a strange decision from Masi but to then go straight into an uncompetitive car - we could be seeing the beginning of the end here.

Also agree with this. I personally believe Lewis' motivation in remaining in F1 beyond 2022 is that 8th title. He wants to retire as the outright record holder for WDC's, not the joint holder. Not having a car capable of delivering that for him 9at the moment) has to be a demotivating. If Merc can't find the silver bullet to fix the car and get back to winning races before the end of the year, I think 2022 will be his final season. He might not even finish it. Rumours have already begun swirling. Pretty sure they're just that at the moment, but give it another 10 races like the first 4 and it could all change.

Yes sure all fair points.

And I do think GR is expecting a No. 2 role- at least this season while he embeds in the team and doesn’t want to ruffle any feathers. I expect Merc to prioritise LH / give him some sort of No 1 status- to some extent. So that could dilute the impact of GR’s pure pace this season.

Will be interesting to see whether LH does another season in 2023 and if he holds on to No 1 status if he does.

Disagree here. As long as Merc are battling to be 3rd/4th/5th quickest, I don't think they'll be interested in team orders. Their interest will be in figuring out how to get some pace out of that car, and whether it's GR or LH who finds it they won't care. What I would say, is that while Merc are hunting for a solution it's going to be difficult sorting out which of them is actually performing better. LH ran with a heavier car in Australia due to extra sensors they normally only run in testing. Not sure if something similar applied in Imola or not.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

I reckon the mercedes being a bit of a dog is really good for GR. He can get his feet under the table and follow team orders if needed without having to worry about compromising a possible championship challenge.

I agree with [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION], I think Lewis is probably a bit flat/demotivated at the moment. The way he was denied the title last year must have been gut wrenching. It wasn't just the title, it was the record breaking 8th taken from him by an act of rule breaking/bending by the people running the sport. So he goes away, gets himself in the place he needs to be to make another title challenge only to be given a dog to drive and four races in they're still effectively test driving it. That's got to be deflating.

If we are seeing the end of the Hamilton era (and to be honest its way too early to say that with any confidence)then at least British F1 is in a good place with Lando and George. I expect both of them to win the world title at some point.

F1 in general is in a good place with Max, Charles, Lando and George all capable of multiple titles. I'd like to see Gasly given a proper shot in a decent car too.

 

[crodonilson]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-61246454

One battle Lewis has won today, much needed good news for him.

 

[Audax]

As it's too early for the 2026 thread, thought I'd share the latest on the "will they, won't they?" VW saga here.

VW's CEO has very strongly hinted that both Porsche and Audi will enter Formula 1 in 2026. That season will see both new engine rules (simplified on the electric side, but with the electric that remains beefed up a lot, along with further moves towards renewable / greener fuels for the ICE) and revised chassis / aero rules. As such, it marks a logical point for the VW brands to enter as the advantages of teams / manufacturer's already in the sport will be reduced.

It's thought that Porsche will enter via a partnership with Red Bull Power Trains, leading to a likely Red Bull Porsche badged team from 2026 onwards. Audi, on the other hand, appears to favour going it alone - however it's uncertain at the moment what shape that might take. Rumours are that Audi has taken over an aborted F1 engine program that Porsche had started (and then abandoned in the wake of dieselgate) and will modernise that design. It is also widely believed that Audi have been talking to multiple teams (McLaren, Williams, Sauber [Alfa Romeo], and Aston Martin) about buying a stake (if not a controlling interest), but it appears that so far those talks haven't produced anything firm. It's possible they may go it alone with a full factory team if they can't convince an existing team to sell. Or they may settle for being an engine supplier only, assuming a team is willing to sign up.

Audi's possible entry as a full factory team may be playing a part in F1 dragging its feet over the possible Andretti entry. While there are theoretically 12 available grid slots for teams, with only 10 currently in use, it does appear that F1 is very wary about diluting the prize fund for the existing teams and will only ok a new entry if it is strongly believed to be able to add to the sport. They do not want to repeat the mistake the last time multiple new teams were added (with none of those teams ultimately surviving, and none of them ever troubling the midfield).

Andretti may find that his best (only?) way into F1 is to do a deal with Audi, and delay his entry to 2026. Andretti Audi has a nice ring to it... (and they could do a sponsor deal with the AA, who they might need to recover the cars if the engine proves to be Honda-levels of unreliable .