[Misc] F1 2021

[Icy Gull]

Non of that is unusual and is part of the strategy part of F1 - LH has taken advantage of safety car pit stops on numerous occasions as well as closing up on his rivals.

What was unusual was allowing only selected cars to overtake the safety and not all or none.

All passing would have meant the race finishing under a safety car, none would have removed any chance of Max winning. As Lewis said over the radio at the end of the race “This has been manipulated man”

Been clear to me for a while that Max winning the Championship was the preferred option for the FIA and they did have to manipulate it to get the result they wanted. Sacking Masi becomes harder in that case…..

 

[Bold Seagull]

Non of that is unusual and is part of the strategy part of F1 - LH has taken advantage of safety car pit stops on numerous occasions as well as closing up on his rivals.

What was unusual was allowing only selected cars to overtake the safety and not all or none.

You can swap out unusual for unprecedented - it’s never happened in that way before. I think it’s also unprecedented that the unlapping cars haven’t yet rejoined the pack when the SC pulls of track and it goes green. Not 100% on that one though.

 

[Creaky]

All passing would have meant the race finishing under a safety car, none would have removed any chance of Max winning. As Lewis said over the radio at the end of the race “This has been manipulated man”

Been clear to me for a while that Max winning the Championship was the preferred option for the FIA and they did have to manipulate it to get the result they wanted.

We don’t know now, and never will, what would have happened if the cars between LH and MV hadn’t been allowed to overtake the SC - there’s every chance that they would have let MV past in the first two corners leaving MV almost a full lap to chase down LH.

I’m not a believer in all the conspiracy theories going round - why wasn’t LH forced to give the position back from the turn 7 incident for example.

I’m a much greater believer in incompetency.

 

[Icy Gull]

We don’t know now, and never will, what would have happened if the cars between LH and MV hadn’t been allowed to overtake the SC - there’s every chance that they would have let MV past in the first two corners leaving MV almost a full lap to chase down LH.

I’m not a believer in all the conspiracy theories going round - why wasn’t LH forced to give the position back from the turn 7 incident for example.

I’m a much greater believer in incompetency.

Took Hamilton way more than two corners to get past them, if they all just moved out of the way together that sounds worthy of a conspiracy theory to me, although I can’t see any of the drivers being involved in one

 

[Hugo Rune]

It seems incredibly unfair that LH got ahead and stayed ahead for 98% of the race by using his skill while Verstappen was allowed opportunities to replace his tyres and allowed to catch up under the Safety Car. Absolute travesty.

Max & Karen are such awful awful winners.

On the congratulations:

"Lewis is a great sportsman in general."

"Of course it helps if you have already seven titles," Verstappen said.

 

[GREASED WEASEL]

Took Hamilton way more than two corners to get past them, if they all just moved out of the way together that sounds worthy of a conspiracy theory to me, although I can’t see any of the drivers being involved in one

Martin Brundle did comment at the time,that by the time MV would pass the other drivers fighting for position under blues, LH would be too far down the road for him to catch

It's all bollox anyway

Any other race would have finished under a SC

 

[Blues Guitarist]

Times reporting that Toto has contacted MV and congratulated him and Mercedes may be set to abort the appeal

https://apple.news/ArUBYuW-vSGWYvHDcqsC0ug

Mercedes must appeal for the sake of the sport. If they don't it will say that what happened is ok. Which it wasn't.

 

[B-right-on]

On an appeal, Mercedes best hope is to get the race voided from the moment of the 'illegal' call by Masi, effectively calling the last lap cancelled and LH the winner.

But not going to happen.

 

[drew]

We don’t know now, and never will, what would have happened if the cars between LH and MV hadn’t been allowed to overtake the SC - there’s every chance that they would have let MV past in the first two corners leaving MV almost a full lap to chase down LH.

I’m not a believer in all the conspiracy theories going round - why wasn’t LH forced to give the position back from the turn 7 incident for example.

I’m a much greater believer in incompetency.

He wasn't forced to give the position back because a) it was decided that MV had forced him off in the first place and b) he allowed MV to catch back up so negating the big distance advantage he got from cutting the corner, all confirmed by the stewards.

The problem with the finish is that Masi should either have stuck to his guns about not letting back markers unlap themselves which, as Greased Weasel pointed out, would have allowed LH to break away again or Masi should have allowed all back markers to unlap themselves which would have included the two between 2nd and 3rd, ie MV and Sainz. Masi effectively decided that Sainz wasn't allowed to attack MV for second place. Also, if all had been allowed to unlap themselves it was argued that under the rules, the safety car would come in after the lap when they had caught up at the back and that would have meant the race finishing behind the safety car with LH in front.

It seems a lot of the other teams are unhappy about how the race was finished including their drivers.

This is going to run a little longer I feel.

 

[Bold Seagull]

In 2020, there was a safety-car period during the Eifel Grand Prix at the Nurburgring. Both Hamilton and Verstappen complained it had been unnecessarily long.

Masi was asked about this after the race. He said: "There's a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past."

 

[dejavuatbtn]

On an appeal, Mercedes best hope is to get the race voided from the moment of the 'illegal' call by Masi, effectively calling the last lap cancelled and LH the winner.

But not going to happen.

Yes, they’ll back Masi’s call, irrespective of what they really think. They’ll then review the rule book to tighten things up to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

 

[Creaky]

He wasn't forced to give the position back because a) it was decided that MV had forced him off in the first place and b) he allowed MV to catch back up so negating the big distance advantage he got from cutting the corner, all confirmed by the stewards.

The problem with the finish is that Masi should either have stuck to his guns about not letting back markers unlap themselves which, as Greased Weasel pointed out, would have allowed LH to break away again or Masi should have allowed all back markers to unlap themselves which would have included the two between 2nd and 3rd, ie MV and Sainz. Masi effectively decided that Sainz wasn't allowed to attack MV for second place. Also, if all had been allowed to unlap themselves it was argued that under the rules, the safety car would come in after the lap when they had caught up at the back and that would have meant the race finishing behind the safety car with LH in front.

It seems a lot of the other teams are unhappy about how the race was finished including their drivers.

This is going to run a little longer I feel.

I think everyone is pretty much aware of, and what was wrong with, the finish of the race.

What is interesting is though the number of conspiracy theories doing the rounds that the purpose was to give the win to MV yet the opportunity to penalise LH early in the race wasn’t taken. So why if Masi and the stewards wanted MV to win why wasn’t LH told to give back the place?

As I have said previously, I don’t believe there was any nefarious reason for the way the race ended, it was just simple incompetence to blame.

 

[Audax]

I think everyone is pretty much aware of, and what was wrong with, the finish of the race.

What is interesting is though the number of conspiracy theories doing the rounds that the purpose was to give the win to MV yet the opportunity to penalise LH early in the race wasn’t taken. So why if Masi and the stewards wanted MV to win why wasn’t LH told to give back the place?

As I have said previously, I don’t believe there was any nefarious reason for the way the race ended, it was just simple incompetence to blame.

Incompetence, not helped by the fact Masi had both Horner and Wolff badgering him over the radio. Incidentally, there was another point earlier in the race (when Giovinazzi's car was stranded and they had the VSC) where "corrupt" stewarding could easily have handed the race to Verstappen by calling a full SC. They didn't, but at the time Wolff was all over the radio demanding / begging Masi not to. It wasn't a good look all around to be honest - all of F1 needs to take a good, long, hard look at itself in the mirror over the off season.

Looks like Brawn is already doing exactly that - he's mooted a ban on team principals contacting the race director during a race in the way that Wolff and Horner have both now become accustomed to doing.

 

[Recidivist]

I think everyone is pretty much aware of, and what was wrong with, the finish of the race.

What is interesting is though the number of conspiracy theories doing the rounds that the purpose was to give the win to MV yet the opportunity to penalise LH early in the race wasn’t taken. So why if Masi and the stewards wanted MV to win why wasn’t LH told to give back the place?

As I have said previously, I don’t believe there was any nefarious reason for the way the race ended, it was just simple incompetence to blame.

Beats me why so many people believe these ridiculous conspiracy theories about pretty much anything.

Personally, I’ve always been a believer in the cock-up theory of history which was perfectly illustrated by the F1 lash up in Abu Dhabi!

My understanding was that racing incidents such as LH cutting the corner were decided by the stewards (though a very odd decision in this case, in my opinion) not the race director anyway but that the safety car came under Masi’s remit as his primary responsibility is safety.

Would love to ask Masi what safety issue he was considering when he chose to override the standard protocols for ending the safety car but I think the simple answer is that he panicked under pressure!

RB did nothing wrong in taking advantage of his cock up though I sincerely hope Masi has the good grace to resign after his howler.

Think Mercedes would be best advised to let it slide now. They’ve certainly got the moral high ground and anyone who knows anything about F1 will know that LH was robbed of that win.

Just hope LH bounces back and gets that 8th championship next season……


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

My understanding was that racing incidents such as LH cutting the corner were decided by the stewards (though a very odd decision in this case, in my opinion) not the race director anyway but that the safety car came under Masi’s remit as his primary responsibility is safety.

That incident was dealt with by the stewards as they decided no investigation was necessary, which did surprise me at the time. However at the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix the previous weekend it appears (going by the radio transmission that were broadcast by Sky) that Masi suggested Red Bull give Lewis his place back when they were waiting to form up after the second red flag and if they didn't then the incident would have referred to the stewards. It's also possible that it was Masi who told Red Bull to give Lewis the place back later in the race which led to the two of them colliding, it wasn't clear from the coverage if it was a Red Bull decision, Masi or the stewards. There are quite a few examples this season of a lack of consistency on how the rules are applied and who is meant to be applying which rules.

I'd certainly be in favour of team principles not being able to put pressure on the race director or stewards during the race. Radio communications to be from the director and stewards down rather than teams just being able to effectively pick up the phone and moan about something at their whim. They get to have their say if the stewards want their opinion on what has happened but other than that they have to suck it up and get on with it.

 

[Icy Gull]

I think everyone is pretty much aware of, and what was wrong with, the finish of the race.

What is interesting is though the number of conspiracy theories doing the rounds that the purpose was to give the win to MV yet the opportunity to penalise LH early in the race wasn’t taken. So why if Masi and the stewards qwanted MV to win why wasn’t LH told to give back the place?

As I have said previously, I don’t believe there was any nefarious reason for the way the race ended, it was just simple incompetence to blame.

Masi is not a Steward and had no influence on the incident early in the race I don’t think. Head steward was Derek Warwick I believe.

If we are talking conspiracy theories, I wonder why Masi is still in a job. I guess until this blows over “closing ranks” is the order of the day for the FIA

 

[whosthedaddy]

Mercedes must appeal for the sake of the sport. If they don't it will say that what happened is ok. Which it wasn't.

100% correct, they must appeal.

If teams/drivers who are legitimately wronged just throw their collective hands in the air and let the race director do what he effing well likes, then this sport will be the big loser.

The late Charlie Whiting would have been turning in his grave watching the farce that Formula One rules have become under Masi, in almost every race in the latter part of the season rules have either been ignored or changed, almost to the point where team principles, drivers nor viewers actually know what is right or wrong.

 

[Creaky]

Masi is not a Steward and had no influence on the incident early in the race I don’t think. Head steward was Derek Warwick I believe.

If we are talking conspiracy theories, I wonder why Masi is still in a job. I guess until this blows over “closing ranks” is the order of the day for the FIA

I thought the decision regarding the incident at turn 7 was “no investigation necessary” which would have been Masi’s decision.

I expect Masi will go, eventually - after any appeal has been heard. Resigning now or being sacked would essentially be preempting any decision.

 

[Icy Gull]

I thought the decision regarding the incident at turn 7 was “no investigation necessary” which would have been Masi’s decision.

I expect Masi will go, eventually - after any appeal has been heard. Resigning now or being sacked would essentially be preempting any decision.

Pretty well every report I’ve read states that it was the stewards who decided “no investigation necessary” not Masi.

 

[jessiejames]

Maybe I'm being thick , but would it not have been better if they have stopped the race and then just had a 2 car 4 lap race for the title.
Surely this would have given F1 some credibility and kept some of the newbies who watched for the first time.