[Misc] F1 2021

[Bozza]

Exactly and from my limited knowledge (rules change ever few mins it seems) , the SC should stay out until the track was clear, which would have been after the race had finished. And again no controversy.

Effectively handing over the WC to RB. Verstappen on new tyres over taking Hamilton was a given

The FIA really fecked this one up.

They did, certainly.

I think, on the sport's biggest day for many years, the race finishing under the safety car was not a great look, even if it was the correct outcome given the circumstances. All those F1 newbies tuning in to watch the thrilling world championship clincher they'd heard so much about culminating in a slow procession to the chequered flag. Not sure many of them would be coming back next season.

I think Masi panicked and, under pressure, took what he thought was a pragmatic solution to get the race back on, and Hamilton has every right to feel throughly cheated as a result. Nicholas Latifi shouldn't hold his breath waiting for his Christmas card from Hamilton...

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Okay I thought he had, I thought the gap went down to about 8 secs while LH cleared them, then MV hit them and it went back out to 13 secs, then before the SC hit it was back down to sub 11 secs because he'd got through them, but actually I don't know for certain.

My point is that by pitting him if Lewis stayed out it wasn't simple as you make out because the regulations may have, and should have meant unlapped cars didn't have enough time to unlap themselves and that should have cost Max the chance of a final lap go at Lewis. Had they stayed out, even 1 or 2 cars in the way still, he could have got through them in 1 go and had a chance on the final lap. That is why that pit call wasn't a no brainer, in fact it should have cost them if Masi hadn't come up with his own new rule of allowing just 4 cars to unlap themselves.

I get where you are coming from. Red Flag was the way for Masi out of the mess he created. He wanted a last lap race but ran out of time to do it via the rulebook.

People have posted a load of football analogies. For me, it was Dunk's goal against West Brom. A bloke in charge who's upset one team or another due to a mess of his own making that he created whilst making up the rules as he went along.

 

[Bold Seagull]

No it wasn’t. Hamilton had lost time to Verstappen overtaking the cars in question, which is why they were considered lapped. Max had closed up and still had to overtake them when Latiffii crashed. He was NOT directly behind Lewis at the time

Unless my memory is fecked from all the late drama, a quick check seems to suggest Max had in fact got passed them, I must have missed that completely in my excitement

I've done a quick search and can't find a track position on that lap - any ideas on how to find out?. I thought he was through them, the time went down to 8 secs while Hamilton hit them, back out to 13 as Max went through them and was sub 11 secs when the SC came out as I thought he had cleared them and was on his way. Like you say though, at that point TV director was cutting to other battles etc.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I get where you are coming from. Red Flag was the way for Masi out of the mess he created. He wanted a last lap race but ran out of time to do it via the rulebook.

People have posted a load of football analogies. For me, it was Dunk's goal against West Brom. A bloke in charge who's upset one team or another due to a mess of his own making that he created whilst making up the rules as he went along.

Yeh, this is the best analogy, except you sort of have to imagine it happening in the last minute of the world cup final.

In both cases the person involved has been shown to be utterly out of their depth and should be removed.

 

[Bold Seagull]

They did, certainly.

I think, on the sport's biggest day for many years, the race finishing under the safety car was not a great look, even if it was the correct outcome given the circumstances. All those F1 newbies tuning in to watch the thrilling world championship clincher they'd heard so much about culminating in a slow procession to the chequered flag. Not sure many of them would be coming back next season.

I think Masi panicked and, under pressure, took what he thought was a pragmatic solution to get the race back on, and Hamilton has every right to feel throughly cheated as a result. Nicholas Latifi shouldn't hold his breath waiting for his Christmas card from Hamilton...

Sadly, with the pay drivers you get your Latifi's and your Mazespins, and you have to just hope they don't **** up races so much as to impact championships. In this case, racing a Haas for last place a pay driver has basically helped decide a title in the most controversial way possible.

I really respected Perez's interview afterward, he was acutely aware how bad it would be if he made contact with Hamilton and decided the championship through his actions. He battled, but he was careful. I suspect most drivers in the field felt the same - last thing they wanted to do was impact the title. Latifi had other ideas battling for no points, no prizes, just a complete idiot.

Let's face it, the race director didn't give a monkeys about any of the places below 1st and 2nd, because he wouldn't have done what he did had every place in the field mattered. Crucially 3rd place couldn't have lapped cars removed and so couldn't put any pressure on Max from behind, Max had a free run on Lewis with no concern that 3rd might collide with him trying to get passed. It was a farce.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I get where you are coming from. Red Flag was the way for Masi out of the mess he created. He wanted a last lap race but ran out of time to do it via the rulebook.

I get that Masi wanted to contrive an exciting finish. That itself doesn't sit at all well, given he was prepared to ignore the rules to achieve it.

And what's more, to anyone with even a passing interest in F1, the contrived final lap wasn't even exciting anyway - it was utterly nailed on that MV would speed past him.

It seems to me that if they wanted to contrive a racing finish with some genuine drama, there were two options; once Latifi hit the wall:

1. Red flag it. Let LH pit and put on fresh softs, and have a genuine and fair race to the line. And it would have been a 4 or 5 lap race, too, not just one.

2. Restart when the SC pulled off track, with the four back markers still in place. Tough job for MV to pass them all and LH in a lap, but not out of the question, and would have been genuinely exciting to see him try.

 

[Bozza]

Looks like UEFA have taken up the challenge to out-do the FIA with their own farce in this morning's Champions League draw.

 

[Titanic]

"Liverpool will be 4 nil up with a few mins to go.

A steward will trip over. Then, following a chat with the Red Bull manager, it will be next goal wins, restart from the Liverpool penalty spot, and all Liverpool players will have to play in just their socks.

That is how Red Bull will win."

 

[ukpolska]

It's not over yet.

Lawyer warns FIA Abu Dhabi GP decision could be overturned in court
Duncan Bagshaw says FIA ‘marking its own homework’
‘It is quite likely Mercedes will take it to a court of arbitration’

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/13/lawyer-warns-fia-abu-dhabi-decision-could-be-overturned-in-court

 

[Seagull58]

Okay I thought he had, I thought the gap went down to about 8 secs while LH cleared them, then MV hit them and it went back out to 13 secs, then before the SC hit it was back down to sub 11 secs because he'd got through them, but actually I don't know for certain.

My point is that by pitting him if Lewis stayed out it wasn't simple as you make out because the regulations may have, and should have meant unlapped cars didn't have enough time to unlap themselves and that should have cost Max the chance of a final lap go at Lewis. Had they stayed out, even 1 or 2 cars in the way still, he could have got through them in 1 go and had a chance on the final lap. That is why that pit call wasn't a no brainer, in fact it should have cost them if Masi hadn't come up with his own new rule of allowing just 4 cars to unlap themselves.

Lewis had lapped 4 cars and Max was approaching the 4 cars to start lapping them when the safety car was deployed. Lewis's lead was about 12 seconds with 4 or 5 laps to go and Max was gaining under 1 second per lap.

 

[Seagull58]

I've done a quick search and can't find a track position on that lap - any ideas on how to find out?. I thought he was through them, the time went down to 8 secs while Hamilton hit them, back out to 13 as Max went through them and was sub 11 secs when the SC came out as I thought he had cleared them and was on his way. Like you say though, at that point TV director was cutting to other battles etc.

No. Max was approaching the 4 back markers and they were about to be blue flagged to let him through when Latifi hit the wall. He was still behind them when the safety car came out.

 

[Seagull58]

Lawyer warns FIA Abu Dhabi GP decision could be overturned in court
Duncan Bagshaw says FIA ‘marking its own homework’
‘It is quite likely Mercedes will take it to a court of arbitration’

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/13/lawyer-warns-fia-abu-dhabi-decision-could-be-overturned-in-court

They absolutely should take it to CAS and I expect they'll win. Then how will the race result be determined? It could be that the race is declared null and void and Max still wins because he has 9 wins to Lewis's 8.

 

[Audax]

I can’t decide if the FIA are corrupt or just incompetent. I have a pretty good idea which it is though.

Masi is just incompetent. He's not up to the job.

 

[A1X]

Masi is just incompetent. He's not up to the job.

Hanlon's Razor applies

 

[SK1NT]

Never again will i watch this joke of a sport. I can see why i stopped watching it 20 years ago. I don't mind who ended up winning pre race but i did not see the better driver on the day win. It was won by an FIA wanting to create drama and flout their own rules and by the safety car.

How can Mercedes make the right tactical decisions if you have no idea which rules the FIA choose to apply. RedBull changing tires was the last roll of the dice. RedBull had nothing to lose. The FIA just wanted an exciting last lap which only benefitted RedBull. LH was a sitting duck.

So many dodgy decisions.

 

[B-right-on]

Lewis had lapped 4 cars and Max was approaching the 4 cars to start lapping them when the safety car was deployed. Lewis's lead was about 12 seconds with 4 or 5 laps to go and Max was gaining under 1 second per lap.

Per The Guardian article above. Hamilton and Mercedes were shafted to 'make it a spectical'.

Everybody wanted to see that race finish in racing conditions but the rule makes it very clear that any cars that have been lapped by the leader have to be allowed to pass the leading cars and the safety car before the race is restarted and he did not allow that to happen

 

[Creaky]

If Mercedes appeal is successful then what will the result be?

We don’t know what would have happened if the four cars between LH and MV hadn’t been allowed to overtake the safety car.

We don’t know what would have happened if the race had finished under the safety car?

If the race is declared null and void then is that fair to other teams and their positions in the constructors championshi?

Just a total mess - - though I have to say makes the race totally memorable.

 

[Hamilton]

Never again will i watch this joke of a sport. I can see why i stopped watching it 20 years ago. I don't mind who ended up winning pre race but i did not see the better driver on the day win. It was won by an FIA wanting to create drama and flout their own rules and by the safety car.

How can Mercedes make the right tactical decisions if you have no idea which rules the FIA choose to apply. RedBull changing tires was the last roll of the dice. RedBull had nothing to lose. The FIA just wanted an exciting last lap which only benefitted RedBull. LH was a sitting duck.

So many dodgy decisions.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

I hadn't watched in 20 years and tuned in because it was an exciting sport story. Like thousands of others - regardless of who won - I should have been waking up today thinking that I might tune in again next season, but the whole thing was a farce. I'm still angry at it now. I wasted 2-hours of my life on that.

To let Red Bull pit and then put Lewis and Max side by side for one lap was madness. Masi must have known he was handing the championship to Max. The race should at least be chalked off, and if it means Max still wins on count back, so be it.

Masi needs to be fired. And the way he spoke to Mercedes over the radio at the end. I'd have found him out and had words. I'm sure they did.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

If Mercedes appeal is successful then what will the result be?

That's a tricky one - their case will be around the fact that Lewis was almost certain to win of the rules were applied correctly, but they COULD void the race, leaving Max as champion anyway!

We don’t know what would have happened if the four cars between LH and MV hadn’t been allowed to overtake the safety car.

It is almost certain that Hamilton would have won as Verstappen would have had to pass 4 other cars, who were fighting each other for position, even with the blue flags.

We don’t know what would have happened if the race had finished under the safety car?

We do, Hamilton was leading and would have won.

If the race is declared null and void then is that fair to other teams and their positions in the constructors championship?

Just a total mess - - though I have to say makes the race totally memorable.

Yep. Ruined it.

 

[Icy Gull]

What a ****


Former Formula 1 team owner Eddie Jordan reacted to Sunday's dramatic finale by suggesting Hamilton had become "too nice", allowing Verstappen to "steal" the world title.