[Misc] F1 2021

[North East Seagull]

This is what happens when a whole sport is owned by a media company, sporting integrity becomes secondary to creation of a TV spectacle.

 

[jessiejames]

As I said earlier I'm not into F1, I sort of understand the answer to my question regarding Hamilton not changing tyres, what I don't understand is, if Hamilton was 12 seconds clear and 4 cars between him and 2nd place, how can a race restart without that 12 second gap and also the 4 cars between them? That only takes away the the advantage of the leader.

In theory I thought it was the driver that completed all the laps in the fastest time was the winner.

 

[drew]

As I said earlier I'm not into F1, I sort of understand the answer to my question regarding Hamilton not changing tyres, what I don't understand is, if Hamilton was 12 seconds clear and 4 cars between him and 2nd place, how can a race restart without that 12 second gap and also the 4 cars between them? That only takes away the the advantage of the leader.

In theory I thought it was the driver that completed all the laps in the fastest time was the winner.

Nailed in a nutshell.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I'd summarise as follows

- Masi is Lee Mason
- If they want to manufacture a race but not make it obvious, Red flag it. That way its fair and you don't have to bend the rules otherwise it should finish under the safety car.
-Max is a worthy winner but him and Horner were classless offering absolutely zero congrats to Lewis or Merc.
-Lewis didn't seem to commit to racing next year when asked. That's potentially the bigger story that no one picked up on. You don't need to be Jonathan Creek to realise why he's not entirely comfortable racing at places like Saudi.

 

[crodonilson]

Mercedes going to take this to CAS, signal decision probably won't be known for many months.

 

[Insel affe]

As I said earlier I'm not into F1, I sort of understand the answer to my question regarding Hamilton not changing tyres, what I don't understand is, if Hamilton was 12 seconds clear and 4 cars between him and 2nd place, how can a race restart without that 12 second gap and also the 4 cars between them? That only takes away the the advantage of the leader.

Bingo, hence why this is NOT A SPORT….

 

[Creaky]

As I said earlier I'm not into F1, I sort of understand the answer to my question regarding Hamilton not changing tyres, what I don't understand is, if Hamilton was 12 seconds clear and 4 cars between him and 2nd place, how can a race restart without that 12 second gap and also the 4 cars between them? That only takes away the the advantage of the leader.

In theory I thought it was the driver that completed all the laps in the fastest time was the winner.

That would be MV then - all cars started at the same time - MV finished first.

 

[drew]

I'd summarise as follows

- Masi is Lee Mason
- If they want to manufacture a race but not make it obvious, Red flag it. That way its fair and you don't have to bend the rules otherwise it should finish under the safety car.
-Max is a worthy winner but him and Horner were classless offering absolutely zero congrats to Lewis or Merc.
-Lewis didn't seem to commit to racing next year when asked. That's potentially the bigger story that no one picked up on. You don't need to be Jonathan Creek to realise why he's not entirely comfortable racing at places like Saudi.

Lewis will race next year. I'm not an F1 expert but my understanding is that they've put everything into next years car presumably due to rule changes and they are likely to be streets ahead of everyone. His challenger is therefore likely to be Russell.

 

[jessiejames]

I'd summarise as follows

- Masi is Lee Mason
- If they want to manufacture a race but not make it obvious, Red flag it. That way its fair and you don't have to bend the rules otherwise it should finish under the safety car.
-Max is a worthy winner but him and Horner were classless offering absolutely zero congrats to Lewis or Merc.
-Lewis didn't seem to commit to racing next year when asked. That's potentially the bigger story that no one picked up on. You don't need to be Jonathan Creek to realise why he's not entirely comfortable racing at places like Saudi.

So was this race result manufactured? It seems it was to me, its like a golfer winning a major by taking more shots than his opponent because he was able to reach the green in fewer shots but not able to put

 

[jessiejames]

That would be MV then - all cars started at the same time - MV finished first.

But it has taken him longer to complete all the laps then the one who finished 2nd.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

So was this race result manufactured? It seems it was to me, its like a golfer winning a major by taking more shots than his opponent because he was able to reach the green in fewer shots but not able to put

Masi in Lee Mason style got himself in a hole. If he let's all the cars through, the race finishes behind the safety car which as a spectacle is piss poor, if he doesn't Max can't catch Lewis with 4 or 5 cars - I forget - in the way. I suspect he went the way of Red Bull in that no win situation because he gave the other borderline decision earlier in the race the other way and he doesn't want to upset the TV execs. It wasn't bent, fixed or anything else, just a bloke out of his depth who made the wrong call and made the classic even up decision. He should have red flagged it.

 

[Creaky]

But it has taken him longer to complete all the laps then the one who finished 2nd.

No it hasn’t - laps under the safety car are part of the race.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I'd summarise as follows

- Masi is Lee Mason
- If they want to manufacture a race but not make it obvious, Red flag it. That way its fair and you don't have to bend the rules otherwise it should finish under the safety car.
-Max is a worthy winner but him and Horner were classless offering absolutely zero congrats to Lewis or Merc.
-Lewis didn't seem to commit to racing next year when asked. That's potentially the bigger story that no one picked up on. You don't need to be Jonathan Creek to realise why he's not entirely comfortable racing at places like Saudi.

It may just be coincidence, but every interview I’ve seen with Horner he’s mentioned Hamilton

According to Sky he went hunting for Toto after going to the Merc garage and shaking hands toto refused to see him and shake his hand

 

[jessiejames]

Masi in Lee Mason style got himself in a hole. If he let's all the cars through, the race finishes behind the safety car which as a spectacle is piss poor, if he doesn't Max can't catch Lewis with 4 or 5 cars - I forget - in the way. I suspect he went the way of Red Bull in that no win situation because he gave the other borderline decision earlier in the race the other way and he doesn't want to upset the TV execs. It wasn't bent, fixed or anything else, just a bloke out of his depth who made the wrong call and made the classic even up decision. He should have red flagged it.

Thank you for your answer, still don't get it. If Hamilton was 12 seconds clear at the time when safety car comes out then surely when race restart he should still have that advantage.

 

[pb21]

Masi in Lee Mason style got himself in a hole. If he let's all the cars through, the race finishes behind the safety car which as a spectacle is piss poor, if he doesn't Max can't catch Lewis with 4 or 5 cars - I forget - in the way. I suspect he went the way of Red Bull in that no win situation because he gave the other borderline decision earlier in the race the other way and he doesn't want to upset the TV execs. It wasn't bent, fixed or anything else, just a bloke out of his depth who made the wrong call and made the classic even up decision. He should have red flagged it.

Yep, he ballsed it up.

If it had been one lap later it would have finished under the safety car, if the clean up had taken longer it would have finished under the safety car; he couldn't have done anything about that. But it happened at just the right time in the race and was cleaned up in just the right amount of time for him to think that he had a good idea of how to finish things off, probably influenced Red Bull. The trouble is that it was actually a really shit idea.

Mercedes have a valid case IMO, don't know how legal stuff works in sport. Can't imagine there is any chance they will retrospectively win, but wouldn't be surprised if they can recover some of the lost costs they would have got from being world champions.

 

[jessiejames]

No it hasn’t - laps under the safety car are part of the race.

Thank you for trying to explain, but still don't get it.

Keep F1 off normal TV, leave it on pay per view or paid subscription. What an absolute joke of a so called sport.

 

[theroyal]

If you'd like an image that neatly sums up the end of that race in football terms, here you go:

 

[jessiejames]

One last question. Is Max a genuine world champion or world champion by default?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Thank you for your answer, still don't get it. If Hamilton was 12 seconds clear at the time when safety car comes out then surely when race restart he should still have that advantage.

The safety car is taken from the McRacing in America. Someone sticks it in the wall? Bring out the safety car, bunch up the field. It's better for TV as a race that looked like it was done and dusted then has the field bunched up. It works in fairness most of the time but it penalises the person in front the most. A red flag stops the race but crucially Lewis would have been able to change his tyres as well.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Thank you for your answer, still don't get it. If Hamilton was 12 seconds clear at the time when safety car comes out then surely when race restart he should still have that advantage.

In motor racing generally that doesn’t happen because the SC comes up due to a crash / debris / danger on track, they need the field in a nice compact line so the marshalls etc have at least a 90secs of clear track after each pass of the SC, so in all Motorsport the field bunches up until the track is clear, then the SC pulls in and back to racing with no previous time gaps.

The controversy here is typically there is time for the lapped cars that went in the pits to unlap themselves to their correct track position - so normally you’d have an extra lap of the SC on a clear track so all those cars can bomb it round and join the end of the train, once done, race restarts. In this case there wasn’t enough laps for this to happen, so Masi, the race director took the decision to let just 4 cars, the cars between Max and Lewis to unlap themselves thus giving the race 1 final racing lap so it’s finished under racing conditions. Obviously this gifted Max the win in this case and I think is unprecedented to only allow select cars to unlap themselves.