[Misc] F1 2021

[maltaseagull]

Saw an interview with Max where he sort of said it was inevitable he would take over as the dominant driver / WDC at some stage, whether this year or next year or after, as the older drivers (ie Lewis) will inevitably retire.

I get that LH will call it a day eventually (but can do another 10 years at least - but I’m not convinced Max will necessarily take over.

Based on Merc dominance of recent years I would think George Russell plus whoever ends up taking LH’s seat when he goes have a strong chance, and there are other decent young drivers now with experience- Leclerc, Sainz, Lando. With the new car regs next year I think they all have a decent chance.

Max does have one unique advantage- he drives for a big team with a fast car where the team tends to work for a No. 1 driver, with the No. 2 just there to support. That probably will inevitably help him take a disproportionate haul of points and could help him win the WDC to be fair. I do think he’s a decent driver but I think it remains to be seen how he competes with the rest of they have similar machinery / speed. Plus he remains impetuous and I don’t think that necessarily helps you win a WDC as that is a marathon not a sprint and can require some patience and tactical cautious driving.

Looking forwards- Red Bull surely could suffer from Honda quitting F1 - Red Bull taking over the engine development which is a new task for them, they will be the only F1 team trying to do that, every team who are not using the ‘Red Bull’ engine will have the backing and experience of a big manufacturer. Surely they will have to keep Honda involved somehow, it’s just to big a task for them?

Nah!

Horner will find some part of the rules that finds all other cars are illegal and therefore Red Bull win everything!

 

[zefarelly]

Nah!

Horner will find some part of the rules that finds all other cars are illegal and therefore Red Bull win everything!

RB have enough money to buy engine design/manufacture/build experience, and weakening the opposition in the process.

Adrian Newey is the Brains behind the car, he's not a charity.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The Mercs are well off MV’s pace in 1st practice. Can’t see them turning the engines up until qualifying.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

The Mercs are well off MV’s pace in 1st practice. Can’t see them turning the engines up until qualifying.

The Alpha Tauri was second fastest, so not sure you can read too much into this first session.

 

[Jimmehh]

So decision not to review the incident last weekend... Elbows out from Merc from now on now then.

 

[Shippers]

So decision not to review the incident last weekend... Elbows out from Merc from now on now then.

Interesting, so you can run someone off the track to hold position.

What if LH didn't run wide to avoid a collision and MV ran into him taking them both out, I assume no penalty? Or are we saying LH saved MV from a penalty because he avoided collision?

I don't think MV will mind LH getting the elbows out because if the roles are reversed at any point this weekend, I am sure MV will not run wide and turn in to a collision, with CH blaming LH for running wide and losing control of his car.

 

[JJ McClure]

Interesting, so you can run someone off the track to hold position.

I don't think MV will mind LH getting the elbows out because if the roles are reversed at any point this weekend, I am sure MV will not run wide and turn in to a collision, with CH blaming LH for running wide and losing control of his car.

Such as in Monza where "that's what happens when you don't give me room". Basically Max can continue to drive like a **** and its never his fault.

 

[banjo]

Surprise surprise.

 

[Audax]

Interesting, so you can run someone off the track to hold position.

What if LH didn't run wide to avoid a collision and MV ran into him taking them both out, I assume no penalty? Or are we saying LH saved MV from a penalty because he avoided collision?

I don't think MV will mind LH getting the elbows out because if the roles are reversed at any point this weekend, I am sure MV will not run wide and turn in to a collision, with CH blaming LH for running wide and losing control of his car.

It's standard FIA inconsistency (which they always reject on the basis that all cases should be treated individually on their own merits and thus precedent doesn't matter ... until they want it to matter).

In the case of the Right to Review that Mercedes asked for, it was rejected on the basis that the new evidence (Verstappen's onboard) didn't show anything new that hadn't already been considered by the stewards on the day.

IMO a large part of what they considered on the day was "this is great TV, we don't want a stewards decision affecting the outcome". Because ultimately the decision they made flies in the face of so many other decisions made previously re: not allowing the driver on the outside to be crowded off track. Indeed, the only genuine difference I see between the Brazil incident and the Silverstone one is that Hamilton clipped Verstappen, and thus the stewards had their hand forced.

 

[Creaky]

It's standard FIA inconsistency (which they always reject on the basis that all cases should be treated individually on their own merits and thus precedent doesn't matter ... until they want it to matter).

In the case of the Right to Review that Mercedes asked for, it was rejected on the basis that the new evidence (Verstappen's onboard) didn't show anything new that hadn't already been considered by the stewards on the day.

IMO a large part of what they considered on the day was "this is great TV, we don't want a stewards decision affecting the outcome". Because ultimately the decision they made flies in the face of so many other decisions made previously re: not allowing the driver on the outside to be crowded off track. Indeed, the only genuine difference I see between the Brazil incident and the Silverstone one is that Hamilton clipped Verstappen, and thus the stewards had their hand forced.

It was great TV and it might have been greater TV if a penalty had been given as soon as LH succeeded in gaining the lead. We’d have seen MV trying his best to keep a 5 or 10 second lead over VB and VB possibly chasing harder.

The bottom line is that F1 is a business not a sport - the whole raison d'être for which is to entertain. Sanitise it too much and no one will watch.

 

[The Wizard]

I can understand them not going back and giving a penalty because it undermines the credibility of the result of that race, red bull could say they turned the engine down and that means the result of the race isn’t really credible if a 5 second penalty was applied.

What I am surprised about is that he hasn’t been given at least some kind of official warning re: driving standards, he was shown the black and white flag for the weaving after this incident as well during that race, the blowing smoke up his rear end from the stewards and the Red Bull team means he’s just having his bad driving reinforced.

It’s going to make the rest of the season very interesting if the stewards don’t deem that a penalty, even if you’re a car ahead you can’t really pass around the outside anymore if drivers on the inside are allowed to deliberately go deep to cut off the overtake. Dangerous precedent. I’m glad they didn’t add a penalty after the race, but it was 100% a nailed on penalty watching all angles of the incident at time, how the stewards on the day didn’t see that I will never know.

Much as it’s fun having Karen Horner back complaining about everything, when your driver has just got away with one it’s probably best to just shut your gob.

 

[FloatLeft]

I’m not sure if this has been said before but the Lewis/Max tussle is the best thing to happen to F1 in years.

I’ve always been a part time F1 fan but the past few years have felt a bit sterile so my interest has slowly waned….

….I’m now hooked again.

Can’t wait for Sunday.

(And I think Sky have done a great job of covering F1)

 

[Icy Gull]

NSC does not understand F1, apart from a couple of Max fans on here

The request for a review was rejected on the basis that the new evidence submitted - on-board camera footage from both cars - was not "significant".

Uh huh, well done Max on your first World Championship…

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

https://youtu.be/wIyO2RPk3gw

No love lost between those two [emoji95]

Red Bull seem laser focused on the flex on Merc’s rear wing… but still don’t protest. Funny I thought the talk earlier in the season was all about Red Bull’s rear wing flexing and I have seen footage of that.

Judging by this https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-braced-for-flexi-wing-showdown-in-baku/6529913/amp/ it seems like all the teams are at it - some tightening if the rules after Baku- and it seems somehow RB feel that Merc are beyond the new rules.

Hard for the FIA to police possibly - as the wings pass tests when they are static but it’s what they do when pulled through the air at 200mph which is being questioned! [emoji2369]

In summary- looks like all the teams have been exploiting this area of the regs- Merc possibly doing the best job of that now and RB not happy. I can’t really see why they don’t protest - maybe they are worried about a protest coming back to bite them if the rules get tightened up and that could also impact their car’s speed in future races? Strange situation. All getting very catty

Update- Button’s verdict- RB can’t protest because they can’t actually work out what Merc are doing with their wing. Makes sense possibly https://www.planetf1.com/news/jenson-button-theory-red-bull-protest/

 

[Hugo Rune]

https://youtu.be/wIyO2RPk3gw

No love lost between those two [emoji95]

Red Bull seem laser focused on the flex on Merc’s rear wing… but still don’t protest. Funny I thought the talk earlier in the season was all about Red Bull’s rear wing flexing and I have seen footage of that.

In summary- looks like all the teams have been exploiting this area of the regs- Merc possibly doing the best job of that now and RB not happy. I can’t really see why they don’t protest - maybe they are worried about a protest coming back to bite them if the rules get tightened up and that could also impact their car’s speed in future races? Strange situation. All getting very catty

I’m fairly sure that RB ‘started’ the rear wing flex controversy which has effectively given them a faster car than the Merc all season. The FIA routinely failed to clip their wings early in the season. They are now ****ing fuming because Mercedes are doing the same thing but better. Clearly they can’t protest a system that they originally thought up because the FIA have already turned a blind eye.

I suspect these systems will be banned for next year once they FIA work out how the **** they work. These upgrades are like the opposite of quantum mechanics, they only exist when the FIA is NOT looking [emoji23]

 

[Hampster Gull]

Basically you've said this is what it is, anyone with a different opinion is a bias one-eyed LH fan. That is not measured.

Most of us ARE enjoying debating the finer details of this titanic battle - because it is interesting. Successful moves, failed moves, crashes and incidents are all part of F1. You can't really be saying every ex-driver, pundit, commentator, journalist that has an opinion MV should be subject to a penalty is one-eyed do you? I'd suggest you are far less objective than you imagine yourself to be.

Far from it. I rightly called the penalty for the Lewis move at Silverstone and was shouted down, i rightly called it as a racing incident with Max in the last race and the same happens. But given the outcomes it seems having a view different from the consensus on here can be right after all. Nothing one eyed here, happy to be joined by others if they want to jump off the Lewis / Britain bandwagon and enjoy it objectively

 

[Hampster Gull]

I’m not sure if this has been said before but the Lewis/Max tussle is the best thing to happen to F1 in years.

I’ve always been a part time F1 fan but the past few years have felt a bit sterile so my interest has slowly waned….

….I’m now hooked again.

Can’t wait for Sunday.

(And I think Sky have done a great job of covering F1)

You're bang on, and it has been said on here. And Sky have been terrific as you say

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Far from it. I rightly called the penalty for the Lewis move at Silverstone and was shouted down, i rightly called it as a racing incident with Max in the last race and the same happens. But given the outcomes it seems having a view different from the consensus on here can be right after all. Nothing one eyed here, happy to be joined by others if they want to jump off the Lewis / Britain bandwagon and enjoy it objectively

You're repeating exactly the same trope - you are in the right / objective, any differing view is on a bandwagon / Lewis fan. It's nonsense. 'I rightly called...' I mean honestly, it's getting a bit laughable how seriously you are taking yourself on this.

Your consensus or conviction that you are completely right is that you agree with the stewards rulings. That is like saying whatever the referee says in football, as long as you agree with it you are right. I'm actually not bothered in the slightest if people agree with the steward's on this, however just because someone else thinks it should have been a penalty DOESN'T make them less objective or just a Lewis fan - you understand that don't you?

I haven't seen any consensus about the MV incident last week. Sky, whose coverage you are complimenting above as 'terrific', still appear to have a consensus between their ex-driver pundits that he should have had a penalty. Are you honestly going to go up to Damon Hill and say he is wrong and you are right on both incidents you mention and tell him to jump off his Lewis bandwagon?

 

[Hampster Gull]

You're repeating exactly the same trope - you are in the right / objective, any differing view is on a bandwagon / Lewis fan. It's nonsense. 'I rightly called...' I mean honestly, it's getting a bit laughable how seriously you are taking yourself on this.

Your consensus or conviction that you are completely right is that you agree with the stewards rulings. That is like saying whatever the referee says in football, as long as you agree with it you are right. I'm actually not bothered in the slightest if people agree with the steward's on this, however just because someone else thinks it should have been a penalty DOESN'T make them less objective or just a Lewis fan - you understand that don't you?

I haven't seen any consensus about the MV incident last week. Sky, whose coverage you are complimenting above as 'terrific', still appear to have a consensus between their ex-driver pundits that he should have had a penalty. Are you honestly going to go up to Damon Hill and say he is wrong and you are right on both incidents you mention and tell him to jump off his Lewis bandwagon?

Yawn

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Yawn

Gotcha. Just trolling. Thought as much. Best ignored it seems.