[Misc] F1 2021

[Hugo Rune]

The way some people are seeing this it’s surprising Max didn't take Lewis out when he got him the second time. Much ado about nothing.

It’s not surprising at all. I’ve not seen anyone mention that they are surprised Max didn’t take Lewis out after the successful pass. It was done so early and cleanly that Max’s only option would have been to have deliberately braked a lot later (again) and harpooned Lewis from behind. The data and camera images of him doing that would have landed him a minimum of a one race ban, I don’t think it ever crossed his mind.

 

[Titanic]

Given the amazing impact of a new engine, and the ease with which he passed all his opponents
will Lewis Hamilton be tempted to ask for another one for the next race?

 

[Hampster Gull]

It’s not surprising at all. I’ve not seen anyone mention that they are surprised Max didn’t take Lewis out after the successful pass. It was done so early and cleanly that Max’s only option would have been to have deliberately braked a lot later (again) and harpooned Lewis from behind. The data and camera images of him doing that would have landed him a minimum of a one race ban, I don’t think it ever crossed his mind.

Exactly, Hamilton got it right the second time and passed like the champion he is. He didn't need to do the first attempt at such high risk. People need to stop the biased nonsense about the first attempt and enjoy the lions fighting it out

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Looked ok to me, he went deep and couldn’t turn in as fast without serious consequences so ran wide. Hamilton did exactly what he should have done by avoiding the incident and going again later. The way some people are seeing this it’s surprising Max didn't take Lewis out when he got him the second time. Much ado about nothing.

If you watch the onboard, and think it ‘looks okay’ it can only be because that is what you want to see. You say he “went deep, and couldn’t turn in as fast...” completely ignoring that he DELIBERATELY went in too deep, at the speed to ever hope to make the corner.

 

[Audax]

Just watching the MV footage.

Where is the under steer claimed by MV?
Why is this footage not available to race director at the time?

Looks like late braking by MV, Masi needs to have this available.

There's telemetry traces available comparing Max's lap before the incident and the lap of the incident. What's clear as day is the following:

1. On a normal lap, Verstappen was lifting off slightly on approach to the braking zone, then braking hard and carrying speed into the corner.
2. On the lap in question, there's no lift, he brakes slightly later, and washes off a lot more speed in the braking phase

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/qvxurz/verstappen_telemetry_lap_47_blue_vs_lap_48_red/


Edit: in terms of Hamilton's engine, there's been analysis done that looks to confirm that Mercedes ran the engine ina different (higher performance) tuning setup than it's used throughout the rest of the year. It looks like they've tuned it to deliver more power a little lower in the torque curve, which helps them get off the corners quicker and that sets up the perfect situation for exploiting Brazil's long straights and DRS zones, where it was key to get out of that last genuine corner as quickly as possible. Conversely, Verstappen's Honda is being run a little conservative as they try to get to the end without taking another engine. Red Bull may have missed a trick by not also taking a new ICE at Brazil in reaction to Hamilton taking one.

 

[A1X]

Edit: in terms of Hamilton's engine, there's been analysis done that looks to confirm that Mercedes ran the engine ina different (higher performance) tuning setup than it's used throughout the rest of the year. It looks like they've tuned it to deliver more power a little lower in the torque curve, which helps them get off the corners quicker and that sets up the perfect situation for exploiting Brazil's long straights and DRS zones, where it was key to get out of that last genuine corner as quickly as possible. Conversely, Verstappen's Honda is being run a little conservative as they try to get to the end without taking another engine. Red Bull may have missed a trick by not also taking a new ICE at Brazil in reaction to Hamilton taking one.

Which is very interesting given the layout of Abu Dhabi (I don't know the other two circuits to be able to pass comment on them), there are some more slow corners and very long straights in that final race.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Merc in with the stewards at 2pm today to present their case on the Max move

 

[Shippers]

Looked ok to me, he went deep and couldn’t turn in as fast without serious consequences so ran wide. Hamilton did exactly what he should have done by avoiding the incident and going again later. The way some people are seeing this it’s surprising Max didn't take Lewis out when he got him the second time. Much ado about nothing.

Exactly, and he gained an unfair advantage by holding on to P1 after leaving the track. Had MV taken the corner like the other 70 laps, LH would have also made the corner on the outside and held onto the pass (he was in front just before the corner). LH did pass him later but that's not the point, like not getting a nail on pen in football but you still get the 1 nil win later on.

 

[Hampster Gull]

If you watch the onboard, and think it ‘looks okay’ it can only be because that is what you want to see. You say he “went deep, and couldn’t turn in as fast...” completely ignoring that he DELIBERATELY went in too deep, at the speed to ever hope to make the corner.

No, its not because i want to see that, its simply my opinion and yes it differs from yours and pretty well everyones on here but hey

 

[Hampster Gull]

Exactly, and he gained an unfair advantage by holding on to P1 after leaving the track. Had MV taken the corner like the other 70 laps, LH would have also made the corner on the outside and held onto the pass (he was in front just before the corner). LH did pass him later but that's not the point, like not getting a nail on pen in football but you still get the 1 nil win later on.

They are not robots, they make split second judgements at speeds none of us have driven at. And NSC is micro examining every slow mo second. I prefer to see real racing as it has been done by the best for decades, assertive and bold and exciting. Thats what we are seeing with these two and all we get on here is anoraking. Synthetic racing is of no interest, at least to me. I am pretty certain Lewis will win this year, more certain than i am of the Albion being in the top 12, and i am glad he is earning it with a real challenger at his heels

 

[Weststander]

If you watch the onboard, and think it ‘looks okay’ it can only be because that is what you want to see. You say he “went deep, and couldn’t turn in as fast...” completely ignoring that he DELIBERATELY went in too deep, at the speed to ever hope to make the corner.

This.

Verstappen took that corner at far too high a speed, he braked too late to have possibly been able to maintain his driving line. The outcome could only have been to either force LH off the track, or engineer a crash likely to end the race for both cars …. leaving the points standing as was.

Thankfully superior LH played the long game, reacting to avoid a crash and racing on to destroy the RedBull soon afterwards.

 

[rogersix]

Why I feel I had to pull up a post from the past, I really don't know.

But your likes of ICY seem to have missed my praise of Hamilton over the years.

I just love to see competitive F1 racing, so it is quite extraordinary how some have missed this stuff its almost like they are following a cult.

Perhaps an apology is on the cards

is it because you can't tolerate differing opinions?

 

[rogersix]

Looked ok to me, he went deep and couldn’t turn in as fast without serious consequences so ran wide. Hamilton did exactly what he should have done by avoiding the incident and going again later. The way some people are seeing this it’s surprising Max didn't take Lewis out when he got him the second time. Much ado about nothing.

hmmmm............. max is the second best driver in the world; panicky, newboy error to outbrake himself there; it's too odd

 

[rogersix]

They are not robots, they make split second judgements at speeds none of us have driven at. And NSC is micro examining every slow mo second. I prefer to see real racing as it has been done by the best for decades, assertive and bold and exciting. Thats what we are seeing with these two and all we get on here is anoraking. Synthetic racing is of no interest, at least to me. I am pretty certain Lewis will win this year, more certain than i am of the Albion being in the top 12, and i am glad he is earning it with a real challenger at his heels

real racing is sticking to the black stuff, if there's an "old school gravel trap", mv holds his line or takes the pena\lty for running his only champ competitor of the track. as you say, they make split second judgements, and max's was, take out lh, same as schumaker and all these other "winners"

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Saw an interview with Max where he sort of said it was inevitable he would take over as the dominant driver / WDC at some stage, whether this year or next year or after, as the older drivers (ie Lewis) will inevitably retire.

I get that LH will call it a day eventually (but can do another 10 years at least - but I’m not convinced Max will necessarily take over.

Based on Merc dominance of recent years I would think George Russell plus whoever ends up taking LH’s seat when he goes have a strong chance, and there are other decent young drivers now with experience- Leclerc, Sainz, Lando. With the new car regs next year I think they all have a decent chance.

Max does have one unique advantage- he drives for a big team with a fast car where the team tends to work for a No. 1 driver, with the No. 2 just there to support. That probably will inevitably help him take a disproportionate haul of points and could help him win the WDC to be fair. I do think he’s a decent driver but I think it remains to be seen how he competes with the rest of they have similar machinery / speed. Plus he remains impetuous and I don’t think that necessarily helps you win a WDC as that is a marathon not a sprint and can require some patience and tactical cautious driving.

Looking forwards- Red Bull surely could suffer from Honda quitting F1 - Red Bull taking over the engine development which is a new task for them, they will be the only F1 team trying to do that, every team who are not using the ‘Red Bull’ engine will have the backing and experience of a big manufacturer. Surely they will have to keep Honda involved somehow, it’s just to big a task for them?

 

[Hampster Gull]

hmmmm............. max is the second best driver in the world; panicky, newboy error to outbrake himself there; it's too odd

Love the biais here and elsewhere. When Hamilton made a worse lunge and clipped max and took him out of the British gp it wasn't Lewis it was max at fault. A variant of the incident happens here and you're all up in arms the other way. If max gets a retro penalty, fine, whatever, i get that interpretation of the incident as well, i may disagree with it but I have no gripe if that's the call.

BTW no ones should misinterpret me, I am in awe of both of their talents, and many others on that grid. Its marvellous to see their battle, its a once in a decade type thing. Enjoy it, dont moan through it. I don't watch one eyed, I do want to watch hard agreessive racing. That's what we are getting. Woohoo. And Lewis will win.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Love the biais here and elsewhere. When Hamilton made a worse lunge and clipped max and took him out of the British gp it wasn't Lewis it was max at fault. A variant of the incident happens here and you're all up in arms the other way.

It was quite a different incident at Silverstone and certainly not ‘worse’ at all.

Hamilton put his car in a place that gave Max a choice, back off or turn in to him. Max never backs off so the inevitable happened. There is no way in the world Lewis would have gone off track if Max hadn’t have hit him.

In the recent incident, Max have Lewis the same choice, back off or get hit. The difference was, Max had to sacrifice any chance he had of taking the corner in order to stop Lewis passing.

I think you are just trying to get a reaction on here. At best both incidents are on par, at worst, Max’s was far more cynical in that he made sure Lewis would not pass him by driving off the circuit with Lewis on the outside.

 

[Hampster Gull]

It was quite a different incident at Silverstone and certainly not ‘worse’ at all.

Hamilton put his car in a place that gave Max a choice, back off or turn in to him. Max never backs off so the inevitable happened. There is no way in the world Lewis would have gone off track if Max hadn’t have hit him.

In the recent incident, Max have Lewis the same choice, back off or get hit. The difference was, Max had to sacrifice any chance he had of taking the corner in order to stop Lewis passing.

I think you are just trying to get a reaction on here. At best both incidents are on par, at worst, Max’s was far more cynical in that he made sure Lewis would not pass him by driving off the circuit with Lewis on the outside.

Not at all, i just have a different opinion. I am very measured about it

 

[WATFORD zero]

Love the biais here and elsewhere. When Hamilton made a worse lunge and clipped max and took him out of the British gp it wasn't Lewis it was max at fault. A variant of the incident happens here and you're all up in arms the other way. If max gets a retro penalty, fine, whatever, i get that interpretation of the incident as well, i may disagree with it but I have no gripe if that's the call.

BTW no ones should misinterpret me, I am in awe of both of their talents, and many others on that grid. Its marvellous to see their battle, its a once in a decade type thing. Enjoy it, dont moan through it. I don't watch one eyed, I do want to watch hard agreessive racing. That's what we are getting. Woohoo. And Lewis will win.

Although I disagree with you over the incident, your last paragraph is spot on

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Not at all, i just have a different opinion. I am very measured about it

Basically you've said this is what it is, anyone with a different opinion is a bias one-eyed LH fan. That is not measured.

Most of us ARE enjoying debating the finer details of this titanic battle - because it is interesting. Successful moves, failed moves, crashes and incidents are all part of F1. You can't really be saying every ex-driver, pundit, commentator, journalist that has an opinion MV should be subject to a penalty is one-eyed do you? I'd suggest you are far less objective than you imagine yourself to be.