[Misc] F1 2021

[Guinness Boy]

I think it was clear and deliberate to run off the track. Not a great believer in VAR, particularly after the event, but in this case a 5 second penalty should be applied and demotion to third place.


The thing that absolutely swings it for me ? Christian Horner (see, [MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION], that's how to admit you are prejudiced)

But surely EVERYONE dislikes Horner because he's such a bellend.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Normally I would agree but that new camera angle is pretty significant as far as new evidence goes, given the incident wasn’t even properly investigated which I still find ridiculous given how anal the FIA are normally about on track incidents.

You say someone should be having a word with max but the only way he will start showing more respect is punishment, this will happen again, probably before this season is out and everyone will say it’s because he’s got away with this one. (And countless others this season)

As a racing driver if you deliberately force another driver off the track you know the punishment, particularly when footage shows you not even attempting to make the corner until it’s patently obvious it’s too late.

I spose my point is the result of the last race has gone. If Max had a 5 second penalty at the time there is no way he finishes that close to Bottas. It would have changed the complexion of the race which you have to do at the time or not at all. A 3 place grid penalty or whatever is the best Mercedes can hope for but I'd be surprised if anything happens.

Max needs better management in my view. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors but it would appear from the outside that they don't try and curb his excesses and almost encourage it at RB. If the FiA could tell RB their cards at marked it might stop Max taking the piss albeit I doubt it. The pair of them are almost destined to come together before the season ends.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

The problem with the Lewis love boys is they only see Hamilton as a god, I see a god as a nice human being who does right to all people, not suing a watch company with the 'Hamilton name of over 100 years, just because he is so up himself that he actually believes he owns that name. There is no excusing it.

This is just one of many instances he is not a god.

On the track, he is good, as I have said many times, but many choose to ignore what I have said to fit their agenda.
But he has had a walk in the park driving the Merc at the right time. I have always acknowledged his feedback may have helped this, but they made this car for Hamilton and not the no 2 drivers.

Has he got the mental maturity and the sublime driving skills to take on someone in a competitive car where he can have NO influence, apart from bleating like a goat?

We will see....................... I just love racing so I would not want ANY driver running away with it. Max has got an amazing cool head under pressure though, hasn't he

I have a sneaky feeling that perhaps the Lewis love boys are the ones chewing wasps, you won't see me doing the same, as I swallow them.


I think anybody with contacts or without contacts know what he is like away from the cameras.


I said to you before it was so close you will never know, so my source screwed up. It is not all rosy behind Merc, trust me, and I know you do.

Why I feel I had to pull up a post from the past, I really don't know.

But your likes of ICY seem to have missed my praise of Hamilton over the years.

I just love to see competitive F1 racing, so it is quite extraordinary how some have missed this stuff its almost like they are following a cult.

Perhaps an apology is on the cards

 

[Hugo Rune]

The problem with the Lewis love boys is they only see Hamilton as a god, I see a god as a nice human being who does right to all people, not suing a watch company with the 'Hamilton name of over 100 years, just because he is so up himself that he actually believes he owns that name. There is no excusing it.

This is not what happened at all.

Lewis Hamilton planned to release a range of watches branded ‘Lewis Hamilton’.

As a reaction to this, the ‘Hamilton’ brand attempted to register their ‘Hamilton’ trademark throughout Europe in 2017. Lewis’ lawyers tried to prevent this so that Lewis could still launch his own brand, they even tried to register ‘Lewis Hamilton’ as a trademark but the Swatch owned brand won out in the end preventing Lewis from using his own name on his brand of watches.

You’ve spun it to make Hamilton look bad because your detest him because of his politics. That is all.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

God is a very strong word and not one that I like to use but Lewis Hamilton is probably the best Formula One driver of all time so fans of Formula One are entitled to call him a racing God a term often used in sport.

 

[Hampster Gull]

But he can be penalised retrospectively in F1- the system is apparently that the stewards can re-open the case if new evidence appears.

And given that they didn’t review any evidence at the time - beyond the TV footage - there is loads of new evidence available- the new footage, the data from Max’s car etc.

Let’s see him get a penalty, would even it up a bit with Hamilton being docked 25 places and would close the title contest up a bit. And would annoy Max and Horner and I love watching them squirm when things haven’t gone their way, because they are both incapable of ever admitting that anything is in any way their fault [emoji1787]

He didn't do anything wrong, that hasn't been done thousands of times before by others. Hamilton learned and regrouped and did a smarter move the next time. Championships have been won several times in races with far more aggressive racing, this was more than two drivers at the limit of the cars and the regs. There will be no retro penalty. And we need characters like Horner and Max, just as we need the likes of Hamilton and Toto (And Zhou next year). This is the best F1 season in a while, lets not ask for more regulatory interference

 

[The Wizard]

He didn't do anything wrong, that hasn't been done thousands of times before by others. Hamilton learned and regrouped and did a smarter move the next time. Championships have been won several times in races with far more aggressive racing, this was more than two drivers at the limit of the cars and the regs. There will be no retro penalty. And we need characters like Horner and Max, just as we need the likes of Hamilton and Toto (And Zhou next year). This is the best F1 season in a while, lets not ask for more regulatory interference

Yep we’ve seen the same kind of thing plenty of times, drivers going deep into corners and taking others out, the only reason this one didn’t end like that is because Lewis yielded. The only difference between this incident and probably at least 10 others this season is that Max wasn’t given a penalty, it’s the same as the VAR debate, sure we don’t want too much interference but at the same time the rules should be applied equally to everyone.

The rule about pushing drivers off the track is a safety measure and should be taken very seriously. The other incident with the ridiculous weaving from Max has also been forgotten about, the thing is I think most people like Max and I love his raw talent and will to win but there is and has to be a line when it comes to racing at 200mph

We are heading down a dangerous road if they continue to allow him to get away with it whilst Karen Horner blows smoke up his bottom.

 

[Icy Gull]

Why I feel I had to pull up a post from the past, I really don't know.

But your likes of ICY seem to have missed my praise of Hamilton over the years.

I just love to see competitive F1 racing, so it is quite extraordinary how some have missed this stuff its almost like they are following a cult.

Perhaps an apology is on the cards

Mouldy, I do apologise for telling you to F Off. Unnecessary and unacceptable, I am however in the cult of Hamilton and Potter

Lewis can be a bit of a **** off track but I am only interested in watching him race, everything else washes over or amuses me. I have never seen or heard GP be anything close to being a **** though.

We’ll have to agree to differ on Max having a cool head on the track

 

[Hampster Gull]

Yep we’ve seen the same kind of thing plenty of times, drivers going deep into corners and taking others out, the only reason this one didn’t end like that is because Lewis yielded. The only difference between this incident and probably at least 10 others this season is that Max wasn’t given a penalty, it’s the same as the VAR debate, sure we don’t want too much interference but at the same time the rules should be applied equally to everyone.

The rule about pushing drivers off the track is a safety measure and should be taken very seriously. The other incident with the ridiculous weaving from Max has also been forgotten about, the thing is I think most people like Max and I love his raw talent and will to win but there is and has to be a line when it comes to racing at 200mph

We are heading down a dangerous road if they continue to allow him to get away with it whilst Karen Horner blows smoke up his bottom.

Karen

This is all part of the mix, he was exonerated and lots of Hamilton fans and the uk media, surprise surprise, go ape. Lets see on the retrial, i am 100% convinced he will not face any penalties and neither should he. This is on the edge stuff, which is what we want. Have a look at the final race of the DTM series this year where the title leader was brutally taken out on the first corner for line crossing.

I think there are scalextrics competitions that you lot could all follow instead

 

[Hampster Gull]

Mouldy, I do apologise for telling you to F Off. Unnecessary and unacceptable, I am however in the cult of Hamilton and Potter

Lewis can be a bit of a **** off track but I am only interested in watching him race, everything else washes over or amuses me. I have never seen or heard GP be anything close to being a **** though.

We’ll have to agree to differ on Max having a cool head on the track

Why would you think that? My interpretation is he is as cool as Hamilton, just as ruthlessly focused on winning as Hamilton. Both have taken risky chances this year, and yes Max more, but he has less to lose and more to win

 

[Icy Gull]

Why would you think that? My interpretation is he is as cool as Hamilton, just as ruthlessly focused on winning as Hamilton. Both have taken risky chances this year, and yes Max more, but he has less to lose and more to win

Having a cool head would involve racing hard but being circumspect in some situations. If you never back off regardless of the situation I would call that foolhardy, not cool. Care to give me one instance where Max has backed off this season?

 

[Hampster Gull]

Having a cool head would involve racing hard but being circumspect in some situations. If you never back off regardless of the situation I would call that foolhardy, not cool. Care to give me one instance where Max has backed off this season?

I would frame it differently, his driving style, which is legitimate and a path long followed, has put him top of the standings. I would say thats a cool head. I think you misunderstand the prerequisite skills needed to be a top F1 driver, the best drivers in the world, you don't get there, stay there and be at the top of them if you arent cool

 

[Guinness Boy]

Why I feel I had to pull up a post from the past, I really don't know.

But your likes of ICY seem to have missed my praise of Hamilton over the years.

I just love to see competitive F1 racing, so it is quite extraordinary how some have missed this stuff its almost like they are following a cult.

Perhaps an apology is on the cards

I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote yourself out of the blue and demand an apology. Needy much?

I think most on this thread are really enjoying the close race between Max and Lewis this year. Most will acknowledge that Lewis (who, statistically and ability wise is the GOAT) sees himself as a brand and the same people are also capable of seeing that Max is far too reckless and that Horner forgives that behaviour whilst crying endlessly about Merc. Neither are perfect human beings but the racing is terrific entertainment. As a British man I want the Brit to win and set records that may never be beaten, but if Max wins this season he will have deserved it and I won't be "kicking the cat". You, on the other hand, like to paint yourself as a true patriot but your definition of who is acceptable to support, whether it's racing drivers or former England football captains always comes down to their perceived social politics.

However, even that would be a simple difference of opinion. Everyone has different politics and everyone can be wrong about all kinds of sporting things in terms of opinion. It's another thing entirely to be wrong about something that you have stated as a fact based on being ITK. This is what you did over Hamilton's driving contract and that has severely dented your credibility on this thread.

 

[zefarelly]

Seeing that footage of Max in car he does not turn the wheel into the apex. Slam dunk for me.

Yes, and as Audax correctly says, he knew it wouldn't turn it as he didn't slow down enough to make it stick. The question therefore is whether that was deliberate or not. It was to my mind. It was a no lose situation for Max.

What would have been intergallactically good would have been Hamilton second guessing, braking early and tucking up the inside!

 

[Audax]

So ... finally seen the onboards from Verstappen's car (they wouldn't play for me last night). Also read some new analysis on The Race.

Aaaaand: I'm changing my mind on this one. 5s Penalty should have been given during the race. Slam dunk IMO, not just based on precedents from earlier this season but also because IMO it was a deliberate crowding off track, and use of the runoff to maintain a position he otherwise would have lost. There's no obvious sign of the under steer that Verstappen claimed when viewing the onboards. Instead, he's simply not applied enough steering to get to the apex, probably because he knew that if he did Hamilton would simply run around the outside of him.So running wide was most likely deliberate and he got away with one.

Will await the stewards review (if one happens), but expect that any retrospective 5s penalty will be fought hard by Red Bull. They'll be able to (rightly) claim that had the penalty been applied in-race, Verstappen would have driven the final portion of the race differently in order to stay 5s clear of Bottas - but that without any penalty being applied he was instead able to run at a slower pace to preserve the car.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Can't see a retrospective time penalty being awarded [if any] - far more likely to be a 3/5 grid place penalty next time out.

Having got 50k fine for fingering the Merc, can't fine him any more $$$ as he must be skint now?

Perhaps MV will be made to do some community service?

 

[Bold Seagull]

So ... finally seen the onboards from Verstappen's car (they wouldn't play for me last night). Also read some new analysis on The Race.

Aaaaand: I'm changing my mind on this one. 5s Penalty should have been given during the race. Slam dunk IMO, not just based on precedents from earlier this season but also because IMO it was a deliberate crowding off track, and use of the runoff to maintain a position he otherwise would have lost. There's no obvious sign of the under steer that Verstappen claimed when viewing the onboards. Instead, he's simply not applied enough steering to get to the apex, probably because he knew that if he did Hamilton would simply run around the outside of him.So running wide was most likely deliberate and he got away with one.

Will await the stewards review (if one happens), but expect that any retrospective 5s penalty will be fought hard by Red Bull. They'll be able to (rightly) claim that had the penalty been applied in-race, Verstappen would have driven the final portion of the race differently in order to stay 5s clear of Bottas - but that without any penalty being applied he was instead able to run at a slower pace to preserve the car.

You want to be objective, try not to take all the social media hype or personal support one way or another, but it is hard not to see that as a cold calculation by MV knowing he's likely to concede 7pts in the title race, that LH cannot afford a DNF, so just miss the corner and see what happens. Once he out-brakes himself, LH can see what he's done so in terms of actual risk, it was probably pretty low, but for everyone else, it's just a really cynical move that to me deserves some sort of sanction imho, whatever that could be. I would say a grid penalty in the next race because that's what was applied to both Norris and Perez I think in similar circumstances, although neither of theirs I don't think were quite so calculated.

 

[Shippers]

IMO MV should of got a penalty as he either deliberately didn't turn to make the corner or he out brakes himself in a bid to try and keep ahead of LH.

I suspect he out braked himself and had no choice but to run wide due to the tighter inside line, where as LH was on the wider line and mostly pass MV in a position to make the corner on the outside, but because of MV inability to control his car at that point LH had to run wide to avoid a collision which would have benefited MV more had they done so. MV didn't leave LH a car width of space and thus breaks the rules, retrospect grid penalty should now be given to MV (3 places), but I get the feeling this is not in FIA interests as they want a new champ, so probably no action.

And let be honest if it was the other way round CH (Karen) would be shouting foul from roof tops that LH almost killed MV.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Looked ok to me, he went deep and couldn’t turn in as fast without serious consequences so ran wide. Hamilton did exactly what he should have done by avoiding the incident and going again later. The way some people are seeing this it’s surprising Max didn't take Lewis out when he got him the second time. Much ado about nothing.

 

[Lindfield by the Pond]

Just watching the MV footage.

Where is the under steer claimed by MV?
Why is this footage not available to race director at the time?

Looks like late braking by MV, Masi needs to have this available.