[Misc] F1 2021

[Bozza]

He was relegated from 1st to the back of the grid (20th) after first qualifying, then having worked his way up to 5th in the sprint qualifying, was still subject to the 5 place penalty imposed for new engine parts.

(Their maths is one out though - 1st to 20th is only 19 places...)

Yes - that was exactly my point. It was 24 places, not 25 surely.

 

[JJ McClure]

Max is massively talented and supremely fast…but his only tactic when defending is to run people off track and today the FIA have basically sanctioned that as ok. I’m sorry, but to me that’s just not racing.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

What a fantastic race. Remarkable performance all weekend by Hamilton. Questionable from Verstappen.

The last three races should be incredible. I imagine there's a high possibility Max and Lewis will have an 'incident' at at least one of them.

This has been a season for the ages.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Max is massively talented and supremely fast…but his only tactic when defending is to run people off track and today the FIA have basically sanctioned that as ok. I’m sorry, but to me that’s just not racing.

Interesting this-

https://wtf1.com/post/fia-stewards-...ront-onboard-when-deciding-hamilton-incident/

The pundits on Sky were saying the stewards would have had access to all the data, on board camera etc when they took the decision. This however saying that because they chose not to investigate the incident (based on the tv footage angles I guess) - they wouldn’t have looked at any data or any on board footage at all (which could have confirmed whether Max did attempt to take the corner or instead deliberately drove off the road).

Does seem a weird decision as you say- almost like they accept that Max ran Hamilton (and himself) off the road but accepted that as a racing incident. Will be interesting to see what they do next time that happens, as it does happen quite regularly and they often seem to dish out 10 second penalties.

 

[Icy Gull]

Interesting this-

https://wtf1.com/post/fia-stewards-...ront-onboard-when-deciding-hamilton-incident/

The pundits on Sky were saying the stewards would have had access to all the data, on board camera etc when they took the decision. This however saying that because they chose not to investigate the incident (based on the tv footage angles I guess) - they wouldn’t have looked at any data or any on board footage at all (which could have confirmed whether Max did attempt to take the corner or instead deliberately drove off the road).

Does seem a weird decision as you say- almost like they accept that Max ran Hamilton (and himself) off the road but accepted that as a racing incident. Will be interesting to see what they do next time that happens, as it does happen quite regularly and they often seem to dish out 10 second penalties.

That move could and would have taken both cars out, which would have benefitted just the one driver, if Hamilton had not second guessed Verstappen and avoided a race finishing collision. I wonder if Max would have done the same if Lewis was leading the championship? I tend to doubt it, but then I’m a cynical *******.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Interesting this-

https://wtf1.com/post/fia-stewards-...ront-onboard-when-deciding-hamilton-incident/

The pundits on Sky were saying the stewards would have had access to all the data, on board camera etc when they took the decision. This however saying that because they chose not to investigate the incident (based on the tv footage angles I guess) - they wouldn’t have looked at any data or any on board footage at all (which could have confirmed whether Max did attempt to take the corner or instead deliberately drove off the road).

Does seem a weird decision as you say- almost like they accept that Max ran Hamilton (and himself) off the road but accepted that as a racing incident. Will be interesting to see what they do next time that happens, as it does happen quite regularly and they often seem to dish out 10 second penalties.

I said to my son last night that, if the decision is “no investigation needed”, then by definition they won’t have looked at the data!


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[Hampster Gull]

Sorry but it’s yours that is the flawed analogy.

Yes we can accept, or even applaud rule breaking by our own (take Sanchez’ foul to bring down Wilson last week), but that doesn’t mean we expect it to go unpunished. Sanchez did the ‘professional’ thing, in the circumstances, and was rightly sent off (and banned) for it.

That is clearly entirely different to MV today, who committed the professional foul, and was not censured in line with the clear rules.

F1s experts and equivalent of VAR believe he didn't commit a professional foul, some sofa experts with their “expertise” and unbiased opinions do.

 

[Hugo Rune]

What a fantastic race. Remarkable performance all weekend by Hamilton. Questionable from Verstappen.

The last three races should be incredible. I imagine there's a high possibility Max and Lewis will have an 'incident' at at least one of them.

This has been a season for the ages.

Lewis knows full well that Max will take him out if he gives him the chance. Because he is behind on points, he needs to keep our of Max’s way. The next track should suit the Merc, hoping for a silver 1-2 where Max gets nowhere near Lewis.

 

[Nitram]

F1s experts and equivalent of VAR believe he didn't commit a professional foul, some sofa experts with their “expertise” and unbiased opinions do.

All the Sky pundits thought he was guilty the only ones who didn’t were indeed the equivalent ‘VAR’ people, and we know in football how often they get that wrong, So no, not just sofa pundits.

 

[Recidivist]

I wonder if the incident at Silverstone when Lewis effectively took out Max was at the back of the stewards’ minds?

Not dissimilar situation and Lewis clearly rode his luck trying to overtake at that corner too.

Glad it didn’t end in the same way and any F1 fan must admit that that was one of the all time great drives by Lewis!

Where have Mercedes found the extra speed though……?


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[Hugo Rune]

Where have Mercedes found the extra speed though……?

I thought they were meant to struggle when it was hot. I’m not sure if it was that warm in Brazil yesterday. Sadly, the next 3 races are desert ones so the Merc might be back to 2nd best again.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I wonder if the incident at Silverstone when Lewis effectively took out Max was at the back of the stewards’ minds?

Not dissimilar situation and Lewis clearly rode his luck trying to overtake at that corner too.

Glad it didn’t end in the same way and any F1 fan must admit that that was one of the all time great drives by Lewis!

Where have Mercedes found the extra speed though……?


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My reading is that the new power units they are putting in are making a difference, that's why they are happy to take the grid penalties to have it

 

[A1X]

Any more of a “cheat” than tripping a player who is clear in on goal? - or is some cheating ok?

And if that happened we'd expect a penalty. The issue is not (just) that Max did it, it's that he got away with it. If Maguire scythed down a clean through Maupay at Old Trafford and wasn't sent off for it we'd be furious, same with this.

 

[Bold Seagull]

F1s experts and equivalent of VAR believe he didn't commit a professional foul, some sofa experts with their “expertise” and unbiased opinions do.

Sofa experts including:
Johnny Herbert
Martin Brundle
Anthony Davidson
Paul Di Resta
Jolyon Palmer

I think as Anthony Davidson said, if you see some under steer, a slight lockup, a bit of slide, then you know the driver is fighting the car not to run another off the track. He gave an example of Ocon running someone off at turn 1, but you could see Ocon fighting the car. On the other hand Verstappen can make the corner, but decided not to, opens the steering a bit and happily runs his competitor off the road.

Now the stewards I think knew they’d have a hard job proving Verstappen intentionally opened his steering so let it go because there was no resulting contact, even though that was down to the skill of Hamilton and he lost time because of it. It’s like a dive in football that gets a bit of contact so Var won’t overturn it even though we can all see it was a dive.

If there had been contact MV would almost certainly have got a penalty.

 

[A1X]

Not sure why people are upset with Max, all F1 drivers are super competitive and sometimes they push it, look at incidents from e.g. Schumacher, Senna, Prost, he is no different.

IMHO it's a bit unfair lumping the others in with Schumacher. The others all race hard and occasionally overstep the mark (as have the likes of Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso in the past), but Schumacher was much more conniving and calculated. There was more of a thought the rules simply didn't apply at times and the FIA were so terrified of upsetting a Ferrari team which basically felt like it could act with impunity without consequence, no matter what the impact on the integrity of the sport. Winning in the pit lane when crossing the line before reaching his pit-box to serve a stop and go, for example.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

I wonder if the incident at Silverstone when Lewis effectively took out Max was at the back of the stewards’ minds?

Not dissimilar situation and Lewis clearly rode his luck trying to overtake at that corner too.

Glad it didn’t end in the same way and any F1 fan must admit that that was one of the all time great drives by Lewis!

Where have Mercedes found the extra speed though……?


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Red Bull and Max mentioned the central pillar that supports the top part of the rear wing. That is what he was looking at on Saturday. There is a Max interview he said all the teams had to redesign that part earlier in the year, and they suspect Merc have something dodgy going on.

Horner was asked if they would lodge a protest against it and he said ‘not at this race’. Maybe they will at Qatar.

Merc did say they have issues with the engines deteriorating more rapidly than they expected through their cycle of use- they lose speed race by race apparently. Hence giving Hamilton a new one this weekend so that was also likely to be a factor.

Plus Hamilton is a boss driver, particularly when he is pissed off!

 

[Audax]

One of the angles even shows Max turning right for a split second as Lewis is alongside.

I need to watch it back again, but from memory he had a kick of oversteer. That would then necessitate a quick steering correction to the right. As much as I really dislike Verstappen (he's an amazing talent, but he's also a spoiled brat with a heap of maturing still to do) I don't think what he did was a deliberate attempt to run Hamilton off. It was, rather, a badly misjudged desperate attempt to stay ahead. He ran too deep into the corner before braking, then carried too much speed, all of which then led to running wide, kick of oversteer, and both of them having to take to the run off.

Personally - I think Hamilton was ahead at corner entry. and would have held it around the outside. Therefore, Verstappen running them both wide = gaining an advantage by leaving the track = he should have been asked to hand the place to Hamilton. Fail to do so, impose 5 second penalty. Or at least, that's the precedent the stewards have been setting for a while. But it's starting to look like they're moving back towards "let them race" again (eg the Alonso / Kimi incident at COTA).

Was interesting that the C4 commentary team (Coulthard mostly) didn't back Hamilton on this one. All their bleating was aimed at not wanting a penalty to decide what was a thrilling battle between the two.

I don't watch F1, but stuck it on about half ago because of this thread. What did Verstappen do that was so wrong? Surely he doesn't want LH to get infront of him, so stand your ground kind of thing... What am I missing?

He's allowed to defend robustly, but he's not allowed to force another car off track (whether deliberate or not). That's effectively what happened, so in theory Verstappen should have received a penalty.



Edit: Interesting. Just seen a quote from Hamilton that indicates he didn't feel the Verstappen off-track excursion was anything he was too bothered by: “I haven’t looked at it but in the heat of the moment, I didn’t really think that much about it,” said Hamilton. “It’s a hard battle and I wouldn’t be expecting anything less.”

 

[Audax]

Bit of a rumour floating around that Mercedes have played a very clever hand by taking the new engine at Brazil.

They knew that with the power of DRS at Brazil being so strong they'd be able to make passes. They also know that any new ICE taken for this race can, in theory, be run harder for what remains of the season. They now have a very new (1 race only; brazil) and 1 part used (3 races, one of which was wet) pair of engines to take them to the end of the season. They possible have other engines in the pool that are still usable on Friday's as well.

So, what have the actually got then? That new engine they took "only" needs to do four races, when they're designed for double that. So ... in theory they can run that engine harder in each of those four races. Tune it for more performance rather than more reliability, and they suddenly have an advantage over Red Bull. If they see signs that Brazil engine isn't coping with the higher performance settings, they have the previous engine to fall back on if necessary.

Would go a long way towards explaining why Hamilton was so much faster than Bottas this weekend, as well as how easily he was able to scythe his way through the field.

Not cheating; just very, very clever.

 

[A1X]

It's similar logic to a player getting a silly late yellow which rules them out of a game which the team don't need them for so they're back for a game they do with a clean slate afterwards, take your medicine where it doesn't matter.

 

[Surf's Up]

Bit of a rumour floating around that Mercedes have played a very clever hand by taking the new engine at Brazil.

They knew that with the power of DRS at Brazil being so strong they'd be able to make passes. They also know that any new ICE taken for this race can, in theory, be run harder for what remains of the season. They now have a very new (1 race only; brazil) and 1 part used (3 races, one of which was wet) pair of engines to take them to the end of the season. They possible have other engines in the pool that are still usable on Friday's as well.

So, what have the actually got then? That new engine they took "only" needs to do four races, when they're designed for double that. So ... in theory they can run that engine harder in each of those four races. Tune it for more performance rather than more reliability, and they suddenly have an advantage over Red Bull. If they see signs that Brazil engine isn't coping with the higher performance settings, they have the previous engine to fall back on if necessary.

Would go a long way towards explaining why Hamilton was so much faster than Bottas this weekend, as well as how easily he was able to scythe his way through the field.

Not cheating; just very, very clever.

Which, if correct, will piss off Red Bull even more and force them to adopt even more dastardly tactics both on and off the track - either way, the next 3 races should be epic