[Politics] Extinction Rebellion protester grounds plane at London City...

[Hastings gull]

Without given an opinion on whether they are "right" or "wrong" this was the same argument the ex-Millwall owning pen salesman on Question Time was making last night.

However, unlike most demonstrations this group won't give a stuff whether people empathise with them or not. They are not campaigning for themselves, they are campaigning about the environment.

However much nuisance they cause, people aren't going to start campaigning in retaliation for supermarkets to re-introduce plastic bags. I'm sure many people are complaining about they are doing it, but very little are complaining about "why".

[B]It's an incredibly successful campaign because most companies and most people are starting to think the planet. Everyone knows now (at least) that getting on a plane isn't that great even if they continue to do so.[/B]If was one of them, I'd think job done.

You talk as if all of a sudden, people have become aware of climate change -the issues we now hear about have been known for years; long before this lot decided to disrupt. Progress has been made, albeit too slowly, and will continue to be made, but I am pretty certain that messing folk about will not hasten that process.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

[/B]

Precisely as I expected. having worked with teenagers for 40 years, I know that the vast majority have little interest in politics and see a good chance of a day off. whilst in the park here on that afternoon, I chanced upon a group who had been to the demo, and were hiding away, so as to have the whole day off. Ok -as a kid, I would have done the same, perhaps, but what annoyed me was that on my walk back, I had to clear up the mess they left. Had the demo been planned for Saturday, then we both know that the numbers would have been far lower, so please don't give me righteous rubbish about how the young are so motivated. Doubtless, some are
And as to your last para -well, I suppose by then you had worked yourself up into a frenzy or you have been drinking. What on earth are you talking about? I do not like people disrupting the lives of others, and you jump on board to talk about Putin etc. Unbelievable. Of course people should protest, which is their every right, but if you keep it dignified and restrained, you have a far greater chance of influencing others. Clearly that is too hard for political fanatics to comprehend.

As a fellow educator of young minds I think you are doing our youth a massive disservice. I find it sad that a fellow educator (or former educator) could be so dismissive of a generation of young people, many of whom are deeply passionate, especially about Climate Change as they will bear the brunt of our ignorance and mistakes. Yes, some will have little to no interest, but others will be the polar opposite and they don't need grumpy old farts like us telling them what they are and aren't interested in. The whole thing is very ad hominem.

 

[Hastings gull]

As a fellow educator of young minds I think you are doing our youth a massive disservice. I find it sad that a fellow educator (or former educator) could be so dismissive of a generation of young people, many of whom are deeply passionate, especially about Climate Change as they will bear the brunt of our ignorance and mistakes. Yes, some will have little to no interest, but others will be the polar opposite and they don't need grumpy old farts like us telling them what they are and aren't interested in. The whole thing is very ad hominem.

I was merely stating that in my considerable experience of dealing with teenagers (you, I think, are in a primary school, but doubtless know best?) there is little interest in politics, and I am sure that this will not have changed. Of course, some will be very concerned about the problems of climate change that will affect them more than me in the future -that is obvious. And then you go on to take matters on to an extreme and ridiculous level, which is sadly so typical of NSC, or at least those who infest the political threads. I simply stated that relatively few teenagers take an active interest in politics -nothing more, nothing less. Then you claim I am being dismissive of an entire generation, where I have done nothing of the sort. I still volunteer in schools, and as ever the majority are super kids, who have much to offer. So, just think first before you talk about grumpy old farts.

 

[Diablo]

As a fellow educator of young minds I think you are doing our youth a massive disservice. I find it sad that a fellow educator (or former educator) could be so dismissive of a generation of young people, many of whom are deeply passionate, especially about Climate Change as they will bear the brunt of our ignorance and mistakes. Yes, some will have little to no interest, but others will be the polar opposite and they don't need grumpy old farts like us telling them what they are and aren't interested in. The whole thing is very ad hominem.

worrying indeed !!

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I was merely stating that in my considerable experience of dealing with teenagers (you, I think, are in a primary school, but doubtless know best?) there is little interest in politics, and I am sure that this will not have changed. Of course, some will be very concerned about the problems of climate change that will affect them more than me in the future -that is obvious. And then you go on to take matters on to an extreme and ridiculous level, which is sadly so typical of NSC, or at least those who infest the political threads. I simply stated that relatively few teenagers take an active interest in politics -nothing more, nothing less. Then you claim I am being dismissive of an entire generation, where I have done nothing of the sort. I still volunteer in schools, and as ever the majority are super kids, who have much to offer. So, just think first before you talk about grumpy old farts.

I am primary but have experience working with teenagers as a tutor as well. From my experience, as I have told you before when, I believe, you dismissed the notion of teenagers being political re the rise in support of Corbyn, young people are becoming more engaged with politics. Maybe it’s because of the rise social media which means information is more readily available. Maybe it’s because they see their futures being taken away without the power to stop it (I’ve heard this very phrase from several of the teens I’ve worked with).

If I may, I’d like to share an anecdote. When I was at secondary school I remember protesting the Iraq war. We walked out of lessons and sat on the playground. Singing songs, chanting etc. I remember some of my friends were there because they simply wanted to bunk off lessons but the vast majority were there because they were concerned and scared about the direction our government was taking us in. I remember going to a science lesson later that day and the teacher ranting at us telling us we didn’t understand what we were protesting and we were too young to worry about Iraq. I remember it vividly because of the sense of utter outage it caused amongst myself and my peers. Here was this old, out of touch teacher telling us we didn’t understand and we were too young to worry about it. What right did he have to tell us how we should feel? The insinuation that, because we were young, we shouldn’t be active. That, I’m afraid to say, is how you come across when you attempt to demonise teenagers protesting and sweepingly claim that the majority don’t care about politics.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

worrying indeed !!

And why’s that? Worried a nasty leftie like me might teach children to be compassionate?

 

[Diablo]

And why’s that? Worried a nasty leftie like me might teach children to be compassionate?

Certainly had my suspicions......but I would definitely be concerned someone who admits to being a "nasty leftie"(your words not mine) is teaching young children !

 

[Hastings gull]

I am primary but have experience working with teenagers as a tutor as well. From my experience, as I have told you before when, I believe, you dismissed the notion of teenagers being political re the rise in support of Corbyn, young people are becoming more engaged with politics. Maybe it’s because of the rise social media which means information is more readily available. Maybe it’s because they see their futures being taken away without the power to stop it (I’ve heard this very phrase from several of the teens I’ve worked with).

If I may, I’d like to share an anecdote. When I was at secondary school I remember protesting the Iraq war. We walked out of lessons and sat on the playground. Singing songs, chanting etc. I remember some of my friends were there because they simply wanted to bunk off lessons but the vast majority were there because they were concerned and scared about the direction our government was taking us in. I remember going to a science lesson later that day and the teacher ranting at us telling us we didn’t understand what we were protesting and we were too young to worry about Iraq. I remember it vividly because of the sense of utter outage it caused amongst myself and my peers. Here was this old, out of touch teacher telling us we didn’t understand and we were too young to worry about it. What right did he have to tell us how we should feel? The insinuation that, because we were young, we shouldn’t be active. That, I’m afraid to say, is how you come across when you attempt to demonise teenagers protesting and sweepingly claim that the majority don’t care about politics.

That may be the case that teenagers are more concerned due to the ease of social media -it is hard to say. I suppose I will have to take what you conveniently claim about the numbers protesting -strange that around here, I heard no such thing. Was that vast majority of which you speak, the majority of those who bothered to demonstrate? Yet again, this extremist language about demonising young people, and sweeping claims. Ask yourself whether a demo on a Saturday would have attracted the same numbers? I think we both know the answer to that - so perhaps when I say that most teenagers really are not as bothered as you claim, it might just not be the rantings of a grumpy old fart, but based on observation of a lifetime of working with young people. By the way, I have absolutely no axe to grind here - if I could accept that climate change has created mass hysteria amongst the young, I would be fully supportive of that - there is indeed much that we could do and have not done so -or perhaps you have really not bothered that much to read what I write.
Yesterday, I was wondering about you being a teacher. I am sure that that is what you do, but then was so staggered at the amount of posts coming from you in school time, that I thought that I had mistaken you for someone else.

 

[The Clamp]

Certainly had my suspicions......but I would definitely be concerned someone who admits to being a "nasty leftie"(your words not mine) is teaching young children !

You really are a sad act. I'd be surprised if you're actually allowed near children, let alone anyone trusting you with the care and education of our next generation.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Certainly had my suspicions......but I would definitely be concerned someone who admits to being a "nasty leftie"(your words not mine) is teaching young children !

Did the use of facts and scientific research re climate change give me away? And I was, of course, playing on the trope that those on the left are viewed as 'nasty' by those on the right. You needn't worry though, apart from being rather ill at the moment I am really very good at my job

 

[wellquickwoody]

If I may, I’d like to share an anecdote. When I was at secondary school I remember protesting the Iraq war. We walked out of lessons and sat on the playground. Singing songs, chanting etc. I remember some of my friends were there because they simply wanted to bunk off lessons but the vast majority were there because they were concerned and scared about the direction our government was taking us in. I remember going to a science lesson later that day and the teacher ranting at us telling us we didn’t understand what we were protesting and we were too young to worry about Iraq. I remember it vividly because of the sense of utter outage it caused amongst myself and my peers. Here was this old, out of touch teacher telling us we didn’t understand and we were too young to worry about it. What right did he have to tell us how we should feel? The insinuation that, because we were young, we shouldn’t be active. That, I’m afraid to say, is how you come across when you attempt to demonise teenagers protesting and sweepingly claim that the majority don’t care about politics.

I also remember the reaction in schools to the start of the Falklands war. Kids actually came out and flew the flag, my best mate made a jacket with the slogan ‘Keep the Falklands British’, kids actually supported those in government. This was the post punk/ska and rude boys era so that was not a go to standpoint in usual circumstances. Today’s kids just seem to want to whine, despite having the most material possessions of any generation, and a set of parents willing to fall over themselves to to make life easier than it was for any generation before them.

At fifteen years of age most kids have at least three years of education ahead of them, but for some reason we afford their opinion more merit than the kid who joins the services at 17? We generally do not penalise minors to the same degree as adults in the justice system (apart from the most heinous crimes) but it seems the trend is to allow the young and ill informed to lead the debate on this issue. Children should NOT lead adults, the world is upside down if they do so.

 

[wellquickwoody]

You really are a sad act.

Biggest case of pot, kettle, black I have seen on here for many years!

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

That may be the case that teenagers are more concerned due to the ease of social media -it is hard to say. I suppose I will have to take what you conveniently claim about the numbers protesting -strange that around here, I heard no such thing. Was that vast majority of which you speak, the majority of those who bothered to demonstrate? Yet again, this extremist language about demonising young people, and sweeping claims. Ask yourself whether a demo on a Saturday would have attracted the same numbers? I think we both know the answer to that - so perhaps when I say that most teenagers really are not as bothered as you claim, it might just not be the rantings of a grumpy old fart, but based on observation of a lifetime of working with young people. By the way, I have absolutely no axe to grind here - if I could accept that climate change has created mass hysteria amongst the young, I would be fully supportive of that - there is indeed much that we could do and have not done so -or perhaps you have really not bothered that much to read what I write.
Yesterday, I was wondering about you being a teacher. I am sure that that is what you do, but then was so staggered at the amount of posts coming from you in school time, that I thought that I had mistaken you for someone else.

Bearing in mind my anecdote re protesting was in, what, 2003? So whether you head about it or not, there's not much I can really say or do. It is well documented that schools protested around that time.

I don't think the language is extreme at all. You are saying that the majority of young people only protest because they either want to get out of school or when it's convenient, and have no interest in politics. For some this may be true (not disputing that) but to many it's not and, as someone who has worked with young people, you should know better than to begin to assume to know how young people, teenagers especially, think and feel.

That's quite touching that you're keeping track of my comings and goings and you are right. I have, unfortunately, been quite ill this week and have been bed ridden since Monday. NSC has been my entertainment to distract me from from feeling really quite terrible.

 

[The Clamp]

Biggest case of pot, kettle, black I have seen on here for many years!

Oh dear, the racists have got on board.

 

[Hastings gull]

I also remember the reaction in schools to the start of the Falklands war. Kids actually came out and flew the flag, my best mate made a jacket with the slogan ‘Keep the Falklands British’, kids actually supported those in government. This was the post punk/ska and rude boys era so that was not a go to standpoint in usual circumstances. Today’s kids just seem to want to whine, despite having the most material possessions of any generation, and a set of parents willing to fall over themselves to to make life easier than it was for any generation before them.

At fifteen years of age most kids have at least three years of education ahead of them, but for some reason we afford their opinion more merit than the kid who joins the services at 17? We generally do not penalise minors to the same degree as adults in the justice system (apart from the most heinous crimes) but it seems the trend is to allow the young and ill informed to lead the debate on this issue. Children should NOT lead adults, the world is upside down if they do so.

Interesting take on the whole subject. 0bviously older kids who have reasoned and well-thought-out views should be listened to, as they clearly have something to add, particularly as climate change is going to affect them. But I do also share your unease when I see younger children holding up banners, made for them by adults, protesting about other matters where they could not really understand wider issues involved. I have reservations about this Swedish girl; yes, she is plucky, determined and clearly concerned, having thought much through, to her eternal credit, but do also feel that it might be counter-productive when someone with little experience of life is lecturing others as to how they should run their lives, though that is not to say she should not be heard.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I also remember the reaction in schools to the start of the Falklands war. Kids actually came out and flew the flag, my best mate made a jacket with the slogan ‘Keep the Falklands British’, kids actually supported those in government. This was the post punk/ska and rude boys era so that was not a go to standpoint in usual circumstances. Today’s kids just seem to want to whine, despite having the most material possessions of any generation, and a set of parents willing to fall over themselves to to make life easier than it was for any generation before them.

At fifteen years of age most kids have at least three years of education ahead of them, but for some reason we afford their opinion more merit than the kid who joins the services at 17? We generally do not penalise minors to the same degree as adults in the justice system (apart from the most heinous crimes) but it seems the trend is to allow the young and ill informed to lead the debate on this issue. Children should NOT lead adults, the world is upside down if they do so.

I'm sure everyone generation since time began has used similar phrases such as "the youth of today just whine" and "they have more than we did" etc etc. Again, this is another example of attacking the people protesting instead of focusing on what they are protesting. Information is so easily accessible now that it stands to reason that some young people may be more clued up on climate change than you or I, so why shouldn't they use their democratic right to protest? Take Greta Thunberg for example, she is probably far more knowledgeable than both of us put together on the subject so why should her age act as a barrier?

 

[Hastings gull]

Bearing in mind my anecdote re protesting was in, what, 2003? So whether you head about it or not, there's not much I can really say or do. It is well documented that schools protested around that time.

I don't think the language is extreme at all. You are saying that the majority of young people only protest because they either want to get out of school or when it's convenient, and have no interest in politics. For some this may be true (not disputing that) but to any it's not and, as someone who has worked with young people, you should know better than to begin to assume to know how young people, teenagers especially, think and feel.That's quite touching that you're keeping track of my comings and goings and you are right. I have, unfortunately, been quite ill this week and have been bed ridden since Monday. NSC has been my entertainment to distract me from from feeling really quite terrible.

I have not been keeping touch with you as such -just recall that you teach and wondered why you seemed to have so much time - get well soon! NSC can indeed be quite a distraction .You have, however, missed the point - the fact that I have spent so much time with young folk -and continue to do so - is precisely why I claim as I do. If it were different, I would happily say so; why would I not? - we are on the same side when it comes to climate change. You did not respond when I asked you whether you thought that a Saturday demo would have attracted the same numbers - clearly you knew that would not have been the case -so perhaps a grumpy old fart might just know what he is talking about?

 

[Wrong-Direction]

David Attenborough has been banging on about it for ages and he certainly isn't in his youth

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

 

[Hastings gull]

I'm sure everyone generation since time began has used similar phrases such as "the youth of today just whine" and "they have more than we did" etc etc. Again, this is another example of attacking the people protesting instead of focusing on what they are protesting. Information is so easily accessible now that it stands to reason that some young people may be more clued up on climate change than you or I, so why shouldn't they use their democratic right to protest? Take Greta Thunberg for example, she is probably far more knowledgeable than both of us put together on the subject so why should her age act as a barrier?

You are right in that each generation does indeed look at the next as being that shade degenerate etc -" I would never have dared /done that " etc To be fair, WQW was not claiming that GT should not voice her concerns, just that we need to be careful, if the debate is led by young people who do not have the experience of life that adults have.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Oh dear, the racists have got on board.

Care to make that any plainer?