Exclusion of a fan following incident at Brighton v Crystal Palace 27/09/11 [Merged]

[Hove Lagoonery]

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[Uncle Spielberg]

I have been offered Chinese Women and Russian Women. Apparently it is linked to your internet activity so what have you been up to ?!

 

[drew]

I've just read the report and trawled through this thread. What a load of garbage some are spouting off. Firstly, the palace fan was a guest in an area that has hospitality and I would imagine any brighton fan in the same situation would not be able to restrain themselves from jumping up when your team equalize against your main rivals, reasonably confident that the brighton fans in the area would see it for what it was. Entirely different if he had done this in the North Stand. This whole episode would never have arisen had the complainant just walked away but even by his own admission he didn't. That of course was a catalyst for what followed and as everyone generally accepts, the clubs actions haven't left them smelling of roses. However, are there many cases like this or is the only one? I suspect the later. Surely then the best way forward is not for recriminations and sackings but for the club to introduce a transparent protocol for dealing with these types of incidents. As the IFO stated, this is the most complex case they have dealt with. Let's not forget that this happened in September when fans and the club were still 'bedding' into their new stadium. Would the same thing happen now when stewards have now had 8 months of experience?

We are currently approaching a very exciting end to a very exciting season and I for one don't intend to get embroiled in a club v fan 'war' that is disproportionate to what happened and which will detract from the achievements.

 

[itszamora]

I've just read the report and trawled through this thread. What a load of garbage some are spouting off. Firstly, the palace fan was a guest in an area that has hospitality and I would imagine any brighton fan in the same situation would not be able to restrain themselves from jumping up when your team equalize against your main rivals, reasonably confident that the brighton fans in the area would see it for what it was. Entirely different if he had done this in the North Stand. This whole episode would never have arisen had the complainant just walked away but even by his own admission he didn't. That of course was a catalyst for what followed and as everyone generally accepts, the clubs actions haven't left them smelling of roses. However, are there many cases like this or is the only one? I suspect the later. Surely then the best way forward is not for recriminations and sackings but for the club to introduce a transparent protocol for dealing with these types of incidents. As the IFO stated, this is the most complex case they have dealt with. Let's not forget that this happened in September when fans and the club were still 'bedding' into their new stadium. Would the same thing happen now when stewards have now had 8 months of experience?

We are currently approaching a very exciting end to a very exciting season and I for one don't intend to get embroiled in a club v fan 'war' that is disproportionate to what happened and which will detract from the achievements.

You make some valid points, but I don't think bedding into a new stadium is an excuse for lying to suit your agenda, which at least one employee of the club has done in the course of all this.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Without going through all the statements again the one issue I have a real problem with is the assumption an off duty copper's statement holds more weight then any other. Why? Their evidence in court time and time again has been shown to economic with the true facts. On a personal note I believe some politicians before I would some coppers.

The off duty copper for all we know could have been making full use of the hospitality and was three sheets to the wind, his judgement impaired and his memory, particularly given the time between the incident and his statement, clouded.

A really shabby show from officials from the club.

 

[drew]

Without going through all the statements again the one issue I have a real problem with is the assumption an off duty copper's statement holds more weight then any other. Why? Their evidence in court time and time again has been shown to economic with the true facts. On a personal note I believe some politicians before I would some coppers.

The off duty copper for all we know could have been making full use of the hospitality and was three sheets to the wind, his judgement impaired and his memory, particularly given the time between the incident and his statement, clouded.

A really shabby show from officials from the club.

Have to say that the references to hospitality for all parties doesn't make any mention as to who had been drinking and how much which I would have thought would've have been something they would have investigated.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I think this was the original thread but I seem to recall there was a subsequent thread started by the chap banned outlining the whole inceident & the clubs unreasonable actions, if anyone else can find it would be good.
Lifelong Albion fan banned for 2 years for telling palace fan to shut up in 1901

Oh dear...

On topic - I find it hard to believe that a person would be banned for merely suggesting an opposing fan should quieten down. If that is the case, then I would happily withdraw my current support for the team, financially speaking.

I er...

 

[Czechmate]

Without going through all the statements again the one issue I have a real problem with is the assumption an off duty copper's statement holds more weight then any other. Why? Their evidence in court time and time again has been shown to economic with the true facts. On a personal note I believe some politicians before I would some coppers.

The off duty copper for all we know could have been making full use of the hospitality and was three sheets to the wind, his judgement impaired and his memory, particularly given the time between the incident and his statement, clouded.

A really shabby show from officials from the club.

Yeh , i feel pissed off ! i was not even worthy as an original witness , even though i offered ! You must not rely on one persons accusations for a reasonably serious case.

Drew : This Palace fan was well over the top , not just celebrating . Won't say anymore , case closed , the guy is back in !

 

[NMH]

To be honest I don't usually get involved on issues with you but, when reading, I do often think you defend the sometimes indefensible behaviour of some of the stewards and their attitude towards the fans which seems to come from the top.
Can't fault anything you say on this issue though.

The indefensible behaviour I sometimes defend is because I understand reasons things are done like they are.
Not everyone is going to agree even with what the rule-books say, even stewards sometimes might shrug and wonder about them - but need to get behind them regardless because they do it for the club and football association. So it's not ALWAYS about attitude.

I've had youths tell me, like they are threatening "we're running on that pitch and YOU aren't going to stop us" - and I've told them "I'm not going to try, I just want you to be careful not to cut yourself on the advertising boards" - and they looked at me as if I'd wandered into the wrong event.
Then there are those who will argue to the hilt about fecking hats in the bar, and yes - people do have to take them off even if it seems ridiculous.
It's not always simple as you think, and occasionally it's not as simple as I would like it to be either.

Back to this issue - yeah, if a fan was dealt with badly, someone's got to answer for that. Customer service is extremely important, we don't go and pay at events to be marshalled, humiliated or wrongly accused. Whether it's a renegade doorman, steward, cop, security guard...who-ever, they should be respectful of rights and honour the terms for the public buying the ticket. Stewards are required to stop trouble not make it.

 

[swervy_123]

just read the report what abloody joke, i wonder if this is the first of many to come trumped up charges to inflate some twats ego [rh] surely we cant let this rest .I no quite afew who have been banned already for trivial things , including one guy who had a smoke stupid i no but got a 4 game ban costing him 140 quid surely chucking him out and warning him would have done.Its funny how the club cant find ctv footage of the incident when there are so many cameras in the place [i remember the umbrellas on the beer stands had to be taken down because ctv couldnt see you buying abeer in the north stand f***ing joke].

 

[swervy_123]

if it happened to you would it be disproportionate , No didnt think so

 

[deano seagulls]

I've just read the report and trawled through this thread. What a load of garbage some are spouting off. Firstly, the palace fan was a guest in an area that has hospitality and I would imagine any brighton fan in the same situation would not be able to restrain themselves from jumping up when your team equalize against your main rivals, reasonably confident that the brighton fans in the area would see it for what it was. Entirely different if he had done this in the North Stand. This whole episode would never have arisen had the complainant just walked away but even by his own admission he didn't. That of course was a catalyst for what followed and as everyone generally accepts, the clubs actions haven't left them smelling of roses. However, are there many cases like this or is the only one? I suspect the later. Surely then the best way forward is not for recriminations and sackings but for the club to introduce a transparent protocol for dealing with these types of incidents. As the IFO stated, this is the most complex case they have dealt with. Let's not forget that this happened in September when fans and the club were still 'bedding' into their new stadium. Would the same thing happen now when stewards have now had 8 months of experience?

We are currently approaching a very exciting end to a very exciting season and I for one don't intend to get embroiled in a club v fan 'war' that is disproportionate to what happened and which will detract from the achievements.

If you read the report it says that the complainant walked the way he always walked when he left his seat. The whole thing wouldn't have arisen if the steward had chucked the palace fans out when they first celebrated.Lets NOT forget what happened in September! A loyal season ticket holder for over 24 years has been banned in the first season at the Amex and is guilty of nothing and has been treated badly. Would you have been so keen to MOVE ON if it was you being treated so badly? He nearly lost his job and what has it done to his reputation at work! It's quite clear that many people at the club have lied. If we were to do that in our jobs we would all be sacked. I think the very least the club should do is make a public apology and he should get financial compensation.

 

[cjd]

Have just read the Report.

Absolutely shocking behaviour by the clubs representatives.

Mr. Hebberd just cannot......under any circumstances ......retain his position at the Club.

Someone earlier in this thread, said "mistakes happen". It is NOT a 'mistake' to refuse to hear both sides of the story. It is UTTER IGNORANCE.

 

[The Large One]

no no I know they are real fans , but some clubs have reps. from the suporters who can get a balanced view , TLO you would be a good choice know we hand bags in past but I think you and say lord b would be great as fans reps

I am delighted to inform you that...

...I would like to do no such thing. Such an idea fills me with dread.

 

[drew]

If you read the report it says that the complainant walked the way he always walked when he left his seat. The whole thing wouldn't have arisen if the steward had chucked the palace fans out when they first celebrated.Lets NOT forget what happened in September! A loyal season ticket holder for over 24 years has been banned in the first season at the Amex and is guilty of nothing and has been treated badly. Would you have been so keen to MOVE ON if it was you being treated so badly? He nearly lost his job and what has it done to his reputation at work! It's quite clear that many people at the club have lied. If we were to do that in our jobs we would all be sacked. I think the very least the club should do is make a public apology and he should get financial compensation.

Not exactly correct. It was not the route he normally uses just when the aisle next to his seat is busy. Also, you say the steward should have thrown the guy out when he first celebrated. Aren't you being as draconian as much as you are accussing the club of being. The steward had a word and the palace fan was, by some accounts, more subdued. What is telling is the comment by the IFO as follows :-

The IFO concludes that on the balance of probabilities no physical assault occurred, but that the complainant himself instigated the incident by approaching the Palace fan, an action he now bitterly regrets.
So, contrary to your comment, he was guilty of something.

 

[itszamora]

Not exactly correct. It was not the route he normally uses just when the aisle next to his seat is busy. Also, you say the steward should have thrown the guy out when he first celebrated. Aren't you being as draconian as much as you are accussing the club of being. The steward had a word and the palace fan was, by some accounts, more subdued. What is telling is the comment by the IFO as follows :-

The IFO concludes that on the balance of probabilities no physical assault occurred, but that the complainant himself instigated the incident by approaching the Palace fan, an action he now bitterly regrets.
So, contrary to your comment, he was guilty of something.

Guilty of talking to someone, yes. I imagine he regrets it because of the subsequent two-year ban he received, not because he actually did anything wrong.

 

[perseus]

I have seen this sort of thing before on a few occasions when fans are not segregated and the game gets a bit heated. Sometimes one party gets ejected from the ground. I bet they won't shake hands. The Police won't get involved. There was no official complaint.

It strikes me it is less than what happens on the pitch itself. Lucky there was not drink bottles to kick over or else there really would be trouble.

 

[fataddick]

Having read the report a couple of times and this thread likewise, I'd say on a level of a meltdom (0.0=good person, 9.9= total melt) that the accused is 6.4, the Palace fan is 6.4, the other fans previously abusing the Palace fan are 9.4, the Czech-based NSCer is 0.8, the off-duty copper is 9.1, the junior steward is 8.0, the senior steward is 6.0 (mainly for believing the junior steward's bullshit), Richard Hebbard is 9.8, the guy who invited the Palace fan is 2.8 (it's corporate, they can invite who they like), Craig Murray is 4.3, Lord Bracknell is 1.2 and everyone who wants to fry the Albion hierarchy over this somewhere between 3.5 and 7.1. PS also, I like ponies.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

So, contrary to your comment, he was guilty of something.

 

[drew]

The point I was making was that 99% of the posters on here are painting a picture that the guy that got banned was whiter than white. We were all annoyed with losing out unbeaten home record to Palace of all teams and in particular the way we just seemed to roll over (I may be understating the feelings as my 8 yr old daughter is looking over my shoulder whilst I type) however had he not approached the Palace fan and just left and drowned his sorrows in the hospitality lounge then he wouldn't have missed half a season. Stewards and the off duty policemen, irrespective of what was said or claimed later, would not have gone out of their way to intervene if the two were just having a 'conversation'.

And before anyone jumps down my throat, from what has been said, it is clear no physical assault took place and that the club over reacted due to the lack of any due process in place to deal with this situation but don't forget, this was describe by the IFO as the most complex case they have dealt with. I don't believe the club need to apologise via the programme as it is more appropriate they do so direct to the fan and in a manner that he can restore his reputation with his employers. What they should do is perhaps make sure there is proper complaints protocol and maybe make reference to that in the programme.