[Misc] Exam results

[ForestRowSeagull]

My mum is the exams officer at a School in Sussex and she's said this has been her most stressful year ever (been in the job for 30+ years). Lots of infighting between teachers regarding the allocation of grades and a real sense of regret in that this years a-level leavers were a really strong year (although I guess they could say that every year) and they had to downgrade a lot of them to fit in with the grade profile of the previous two years. It doesnt seem overly fair but I guess there isn't one completely fair one! Might make kids try harder in mocks in the future...

 

[Seaber]

they've had no assessment for their whole time in school? how do they monitor progress and identify those falling behind?

The only data for this particular child is their classwork, they haven't taken part in mocks through a series of unconnected things in there personal life of which I only know the bare minimum.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I don't want this comment to stray too close to bear pit territory but the government have really messed this up. They seem to be doing things on the hoof without forward planning or consultation. Teachers and schools have been kept in the dark. What's happened in Scotland has somewhat forced their hand, but this should have been prepared for properly.

Everything is on the hoof, that's just the nature of the current situation. The only fair way of doing it is by sitting the exams, they could've consulted until the cows come home and the method still would've been unfair.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

funny really as i thought one of the points of mocks was a backup exam, and that mocks were supposed to predict grades when exams were cancelled back in the spring.

whole thing is odd, they seem to have introduced a computer algorithm because they didnt trust teachers grades, now they dont trust the computer algorithm. just let the teacher grades stand, inflated or not, and let the colleges and university sift through.

In the case I’m referring to, its utterly baffling that no course work, or mock exams, in fact nothing from the students at all, is being taken into consideration. Not even the predicted grades. It’s just ranks and previous years results. How on Earth can you give a student a grade based not on their work, but on previous year’s student(s).
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The relationship between the school and the examination board I’m talking about is different, I think, to the U.K. The school is a customer paying for a service. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s legal action, at the very least they should look at some of the students work. I appreciate the situation is difficult but this shouldn’t be an excuse here as other exam boards have done much much better in the same circumstances .

 

[Marshy]

Eldest awaiting A level results. Needs 3 A's to get into his course at Southampton...

He got the required scores in Mocks... so we should not be in for any nasty suprises… but you never know.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

As the member of a department who were positive, but also made some very realistic and genuine decisions on grades, I'd be disappointed if we follow the Scottish decision and literally give every student their predicted grade, as I have no doubt that many schools (I think we all know which type) will not have been equally genuine in theirs.

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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Oldest is awaiting A level results. Unlike nearly all her friends she is having a gap year and wants to do some travelling (funded by her being very careful with money and extra hours behind the tills of her Saturday job) and is currently trying to set up her own little cake baking sideline. Fairly confident regarding her results as she has worked hard and she is now even questioning if she really wants to go to Uni. Youngest is awaiting her first year college results and is in a state of general indifference to these and education generally.

I'm surprised that taking a gap year is unusual. As I posted on a thread some months ago, my understanding is most uni teaching will be remote till Christmas at the earliest. That's certainly the case where I work (one of the big 3 in London). That means shitty pre-recorded lectures, no lab work, and possibly tutorials on Teams (works for groups of five but not any bigger). I recommended seeking a deferral asap (I realise some students have already paid for accomodation, albeit if lectures and practicals are cancelled there is no point finding accomodation anyway, and there must be some sort of way of avoiding a money loss with that).

Separately, I am appalled that rules are being changed so that mock exams are being carried over. That is unethical. I proposed doing this for a student who missed (thought illness) some coursework but had done the formative (non mark-bearing - licke a 'mock' but with feedback) exercise that took exactly the same format as the later summative (mark bearing) exercise (it was a lab report). I was told I could not do this and the student would have to do a replacement exercise. Since this was a lab practical that could not be rerun I had to set an essay (FFS). I asked why and my 'senior' colleague (a dick head) said it would disadvantage the student if the formative mark were changed into summative. I pointed out the student got 85% (the top mark) for the formative exercise so she would not be disadvantaged. He then told me 'it would set a precedent' and 'some students might complain'. Without prior warning this may be a fair assessment. But I had actually asked for this rubric to be put in my course guide that if students missed the summative practical for a mitigated reason then the mark for the formative assessment would be used. All mitigation requires paperwork so there is no chance a student doing well on the formative exercise would get away with not botherig to do the summative - they would get a zero mark. 'No, you can't do that' I was told. Bloody idiots.

You cannot convert a practice mark into a mark that counts unless you advertise the fact beforehand. I would go to court if my kids' mocks were used as real marks. Crikey, I was off my tits when I did my O level mocks and I'd now be sweeping up in Tesco if the grades had been used.

In my uni, in order to mitigate against litigation we are adding all sorts of gifts. So, if a student ends up with a 58% average for their degree the mark will be treated the way we normally treat 59.5 to 59.9 - 'rounded up' to 60%. There are other wheezes in place too, but they are so daft I can't remember them. None apply to my course because I do things differently.

Because our exams were online and the students had 24h to do each paper (I have posted this before) there has been massive marks inflation. The only course I have seen where this did not occur is mine - that's because I uniquely set questions whose answers can't simply be downloaded from wikipedia.

Marks this year at universities are a grade too high. If I were an employer I would treat an upper second as a lower second, and a first as an upper second. Things will be worse next year because this year we did at least manage to deliver most of our teaching appropriately even if some assessment was a bit wanky. Any course starting in October 2020 that has any component that is not a lecture followed by a exam will be micky mouse. I have discussed this with 'senior' colleagues but have been told to tell students that they will not be disadvantaged by any changes to teaching and assessment. This is a lie and I have said that I refuse to lie. Imagine you have signed up for a degree in sexual performance and instead of weeks of intensive practicals with an experienced woman, you were given an old copy of Fiesta?

 

[KZNSeagull]

Youngest KZN is starting year 11 next month. He is quite concerned about what is going to happen re exams next year so the only advice we can give him is to keep working hard on his coursework to keep his predicted grades up and, assuming they do mocks, treat the mock exam as the real exam. I would hope that the government makes an early decision re next years exams, but we will see.

 

[beorhthelm]

In the case I’m referring to, its utterly baffling that no course work, or mock exams, in fact nothing from the students at all, is being taken into consideration. Not even the predicted grades. It’s just ranks and previous years results. How on Earth can you give a student a grade based not on their work, but on previous year’s student(s).

yes its an awful idea and grossly unfair on those at poorer performing schools. is this coming from the exam boards if its being applied abroad too?

 

[Gwylan]

ICrikey, I was off my tits when I did my O level mocks and I'd now be sweeping up in Tesco if the grades had been used.

I wish my mocks could have been used. In pretty much every O and A Level my mocks were higher than my actual results.

Imagine you have signed up for a degree in sexual performance and instead of weeks of intensive practicals with an experienced woman, you were given an old copy of Fiesta?

Degree course have changed since my day. What are entry requirements for that degree?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

yes its an awful idea and grossly unfair on those at poorer performing schools. is this coming from the exam boards if its being applied abroad too?

Regarding your last sentence I believe so. The school received the results yesterday and are still processing what exactly has happened. But something else I found out is Cambridge significantly changed the curriculum last year ie the course results they are basing this year on was for a significantly different course. This significant difference was acknowledged by Cambridge at the start of this year along with appropriate periodic review of course work. My point being is the examination board should have been aware it might not make total sense to estimate in the way they have.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Anyway, good luck everyone with your results and I hope you get into the uni, or on the course, or whatever....you want.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

seems to me if theres a cock up on grade level the universities will need to change procedure to fill spaces. wasnt long ago they were worrying if they'll have enough students to stay open (or was that to get a hand out?)

The most likely cock up will be A level marks inflation.

However, universities don't get 'hand outs' (implying something unearned and unjustified). Albeit they do run using an entirely bogus economical model.....

Government funding is determined by two things: 'Research excellence' and 'bums on seats'. The latter is driven by 'teaching excellence' (bums head for seats deemed lovely, like Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, KCL and Imperial).

Teaching excellence and research excellence are measured by Governemnt via the 'REF' and 'TEF' exercises (expensive beaurocratic bollocks).

Research excellence is measured by how much research grant money individuals earn, and the 'excellence' of the journals in which their work is published (one Nature paper is worth 50 papers in the sort of subject-themed journal in which I publish).

Teaching excellence is measured by a complex formula that relies heavily on NSS (national student survey) which basically measures student approval of courses.

The money the government (tax payer) gives the unis based on REF is supposed to be directed to paying the salaries of those engaged in research, and the infrastructure needed to support researchers (although the latter is mainly paid directly from research grants in the form of 'overheads').

The money the taxpayer gives the unis based on TEF is supposed to pay the salaries of those heavily engaged in teaching.

One other fact - the amount of money that is awarded via TEF is multiplied by the numbers of bums on seats. This is why my uni has increased its biomedical science intake from 400 to 600 students in the last couple of years. Because of shortage of space and staff, some of my colleagues are doing the same lab or tutorial up to 20 times now, for students in smaller batches.

A final fact - the money that is awarded via REF and TEF seems to be top sliced by senior colleagues with the bulk of it directed to reward researchers. Most administrative executives are current or former researchers. Who knew?

So here is the outcome - massive gaming of REF and TEF and massive amounts of time and money spent doing this. More than 60% of those employed at my uni are non-academic office type administrators. Because rewards for research are not simply a measure of activity but an instrument for achieving 'excellence' the rewards for big grant income and papers in 'top' journals are disproportionate and unfair. I have colleagues on £150-£300K pa salaries who have been promised they have to do no teaching (in contravention of job specifications) simply because they publish regularly in Science and Nature and grab big grants from the MRC. In case you are unaware these journals have an alarming rate of retractions due to revelations that findings are false (often fraudulent). Overall the research side is a racket with big rewards and massive temptations for malpractice.

Meanwhile in teaching, it is all about seeking approval. My department got a 100% approval rating in NSS this year. We all got a pat on the head, but nobody got their salary bumped up to £150K+. There is still a perception that anyone can teach. Also, if you are really good at giving students the impression you are really working hard on their behalf to ensure they reach the hights of their possible attainment, they will generally give good feedback. I have to say I am in a great teaching department with some excellent colleagues, and have a feeling that by and large the students are well served. In other departments, however.....

Of course even TEF is a racket. No student wants to graduate with a good grade from a university then see that grade devalued by giving shitty feedback (which is published). On the whole everyone, students and staff, want to say that everything is great, and everyone is doing a great job.

In all this you may have noticed something missing. How is real value measured? How does anyone know whether the research that is published has any value? How do we know that students are being provided with correct facts, or trained how to think? How are the standards of the actual content of teaching and research measured? The answer is they aren't. Surrogate measures are used, and the only purpose of this is for helping government work out how to divvy up the money. As an individual academic, if you work out how to play the game you'll become a big shot. You can do this via the honest use of your talent (see Pat Vallance) or by the application of ruthless manipulation. My field is overrun woth conscience-free psychpaths who thrive in the checks-and-balances-free environment.

 

[Murray 17]

This year there was never going to be a fair way of deciding grades. The bottom line is that statistically any student can achieve any grade.

I would say most students could get 1 of 3 grades.

Firstly, the grade they have been generally getting.

Secondly, If they work hard, then the next grade up.

However, it should also be remembered that course work grades generally relate to tests on one or two topics. So if the student doesn't do enough revision for their finals, when all the topics are tested, a drop in grade is quite possible.



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[Hampster Gull]

Good to see the government sort out the A level issue before the big day

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

Hi all,
Hope it goes well for everyone tomorrow, I am a parent of a student getting his results tomorrow. Can I ask that if things do not go as expected that you do not blame the teachers. I have had some insight into the process and the teachers predicted grades have been ignored. The grades have been pretty much decided on historical data looking at a 3 year average. So basically if a subject has had one bad year in 3 it has affected the grades this year. Madness.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Okay. When do the GCSE results get formally released in the U.K. then?

A-level out tomorrow (thursday)
GCSE is Thursday next week.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Hi all,
Hope it goes well for everyone tomorrow, I am a parent of a student getting his results tomorrow. Can I ask that if things do not go as expected that you do not blame the teachers. I have had some insight into the process and the teachers predicted grades have been ignored. The grades have been pretty much decided on historical data looking at a 3 year average. So basically if a subject has had one bad year in 3 it has affected the grades this year. Madness.

I think the Government are just feeling the need to stick their oar in to everything these days just to show how pro-active they are, but usually what they do is wilfully ignorant.

My daughter-in-law is a teacher and took the recommendations for A-level grades she had to do enormously seriously and did it all very conscientiously. She is fuming. It looks to me like the Government deliberately trying to undermine the teaching profession.

 

[portlock seagull]

Good luck and all that but for Christ sake I wish the annual whinging would stop, about how unfair results are, the stress, how the cherubs lives will be ruined etc. Every bleeding year. Education is a mess. It always has been and probably always will be. Not least, ironically, because you can keep appealing (moaning) until Tim but dim gets what he, not his teachers, thinks he deserves supported by pushy parent. Deal with it. Life is unfair. And frankly in the current climate with the economic landscape laid waste and people dying in their hundreds of thousands, its fecking nauseating listening to the airwaves full of entitled teenagers bleating on about their poxy A star star cosmo star result in Scientology or whatever. And before they even know! Sake...

 

[portlock seagull]

I think the Government are just feeling the need to stick their oar in to everything these days just to show how pro-active they are, but usually what they do is wilfully ignorant.

My daughter-in-law is a teacher and took the recommendations for A-level grades she had to do enormously seriously and did it all very conscientiously. She is fuming. It looks to me like the Government deliberately trying to undermine the teaching profession.

Your daughter needs to know every teacher since Socrates has fumed at how the government undermines teachers. I’m from a family of teachers and well remember how successive generations of held court bemoaning their predicament. In that time, fairly sure we’ve had every party in power bar National Socialism and Communism! Maybe we should try these. You never hear complaints about, although I think that may be for different reasons...