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Evolution debate.







Nibble

New member
Jan 3, 2007
19,238
Despite my disbelief I do like going into Churches. I like the simple little chapels as well as the monolithic cathedrals. They are fascinating places and I mean that in a completely non cynical way. You can find out a lot about an area's history as well as be astounded at the majesty of some of these places. The simple little chapel, that I believe is no longer consecrated, on the edge of Preston Park and is believed to be the oldest building in Brighton is very nice to be in.
 


Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
32,482
Brighton
The fact that there are so many different versions of the same rehashed "truth" says quite a lot about the reliability of its message IMO.

That's a bit silly as you could say the same about people's views on atheism - all different varieties of the "truth".
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
like this little gem...

christians.jpg

You know thats fake right?
 


jimhigham

Je Suis Rhino
Apr 25, 2009
8,055
Woking
I've often wondered why some believers set their stall so firmly against evolution. I'm not a believer but I am prepared to accept that faith and evolution are not mutually exclusive. Many believers accept evolution but simply contend that God initiated the whole process.

Personally, I don't think that young earth creationists help their cause, as they seemingly delight in refuting evidence. Believers that accept evolution are acknowledging the evidence gathered over the last two centuries and therefore make their own position more tenable. I don't buy it myself but it is a damn sight more credible than the putting your fingers in your ears while yelling "la la la la la".
 




ThePaddy

Active member
Aug 27, 2013
846
That's a bit silly as you could say the same about people's views on atheism - all different varieties of the "truth".

There are no varieties of atheism. It is incredible simple: I don't believe that a God exists. Nor does any other atheist, as there's no wiggle room.
 




ThePaddy

Active member
Aug 27, 2013
846
You've probably never seen this diagram then - and as well as that there are negative or positive atheists (degree of affirmation), or broad and narrow atheists (degree of scope) etc. Unfortunately nothing in life is incredibly simple.

513px-Theological_positions.svg.png

I've seen it, I just think it's drivel.

Atheism is a lack of belief in God. All atheists agree on that, anything else they believe in is unrelated to their atheism.
 




Fungus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
May 21, 2004
7,160
Truro
You've probably never seen this diagram then - and as well as that there are negative or positive atheists (degree of affirmation), or broad and narrow atheists (degree of scope) etc. Unfortunately nothing in life is incredibly simple.

513px-Theological_positions.svg.png

Please would you explain what you understand by "Gnostic atheism"?
 




Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,465
Hove
That's a bit silly as you could say the same about people's views on atheism - all different varieties of the "truth".

Atheism only has a single truth though, and that is the absence of any belief in religion. There are no other attributable factors, no different varieties. Pure and simple an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God. End of story. No other philosophical or theological debates to be had. It's an absolute. Any ideals that spring from not believing in God require a different definition because atheism is a singular term.

It is only in semiotics does any challenge or idea toward religion become synonymous with 'atheism' however this is incorrect because there could be thousands of reasons why someone doesn't believe, however none of those reasons, ideals etc. can be termed 'atheism' because atheism requires no reason or justification, it is simply the absence of belief.

Richard Dawkins for example is only an atheist in the fact he does not believe in God. His work challenging religion is not atheism however, it is secular humanism, or another term because it is the articulation of a set of ideas. His reasons for not believing in God don't make him an atheist, only not believing does.

Interestingly, Dawkins never rules out the existence of god, but treats it as a scientific hypothesis like any other.
 
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Fungus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
May 21, 2004
7,160
Truro
Gnostic atheism includes atheists who believe they know that God doesn't exist (like [MENTION=5707]Nibble[/MENTION]), as opposed to agnostic atheists who don't believe in God but accept that it might exist.

So, that's pretty much just strength of disbelief, rather than hugely different versions of the "truth"?
 


daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
I cant be bothered to really get into this thread as its always the same old shit (not had one in a while to be fair). What i will say is that its good to have someone like Buzzer who is actually capable of an objectional non-blinkered adult debate...a rarity on this thread (i see that guy from prague is behaving like a child again)


If not believing in a fantasy makes me a child again...great...for the record, I also appreciate buzzers input, but ill stand by my belief, of not believing in the 'bible' story, and continue to believe that it, along with other religions holy books are more trouble than they are worth.
 




Oct 25, 2003
23,964
If not believing in a fantasy makes me a child again...great...for the record, I also appreciate buzzers input, but ill stand by my belief, of not believing in the 'bible' story, and continue to believe that it, along with other religions holy books are more trouble than they are worth.
A complete inability to partake in reasoned debate without resorting to statements such as "If not believing in a fantasy makes me a child again...great." is what makes you childish. Nothing to do with your beliefs but how you present them. Buzzer has already stated that he's agnostic so is of a different belief to me, but I welcome his opinion because he behaves like an adult.
 




daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
Well, I truly apologise to you lovechild for my postings, and manner they are posted....

I prefer brief, and to the point.

Ok?
 


Lyndhurst 14

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2008
5,245
as opposed to agnostic atheists who don't believe in God but accept that it might exist.

An agnostic atheist makes about as much sense as the ”Jews for Jesus” I walk past each day on the way to work. There are agnostics and there are atheists, there is no crossover. This is just trying to muddy the waters.
 




lawros left foot

Glory hunting since 1969
NSC Patron
Jun 11, 2011
14,095
Worthing
I am atheist, I do not believe in any god, or higher being, or whatever you choose to call your chosen deity. I do not, however care what, or who you worship, and would never try to convert you to my (lack of) belief, because, basically, its just not that important to me.
 


Lyndhurst 14

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2008
5,245
It is impossible to know whether God exists or not - those who claim to know otherwise, whether it's the gnostic atheists or the gnostic theists, are either deluded or lying.

Agnosticism on either side is purely open mindedness, accepting that we know nothing. Any rational minded person is agnostic in my opinion.

(I am an agnostic theist, I believe in a God of sorts, but I wouldn't rule out being wrong about God's existence)

With respect, I was not talking about whether or not it is possible to know if god exists – I’m just talking about definitions. An agnostic atheist is an oxymoron, you are one or the other – not both.
 


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