Evolution and Big Bang are lies from Hell

[BadFish]

I really hope that this is a fishing trip

Has to be.

Just in case it's not though can i ask [MENTION=23499]Stewart[/MENTION]. If life is too wonderful to be an accident and must be made by intedlligent design. The same must be assumed about god.

So what or who made god?

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

I said WHY should life exist? It shouldn't exist, it should never have existed, but it does.

You are living in the darkness, you should step into the light.

I know exactly what you said, but you clearly didn't read what I said. Not spot the bit about '...the desperate search for a reason why life should exist, when there need be no such thing...'?

There doesn't have to be a 'why'. There just is. We're merely apes with sufficiently enlarged brains to worry about this stuff and a hugely exaggerated sense of our place and importance in the universe. I strongly recommend Carl Sagan's speech on The Pale Blue Dot if you're finding yourself bothered about 'why'. There's plenty of light where I'm standing, cheers. I know who I think is floundering around in the dark.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I really hope that this is a fishing trip

If it isn't, then that is one troubled individual!

 

[Brovion]

If it isn't, then that is one troubled individual!

I don't think it is a wind-up, there are far too many people like Stewart so it's understandable that some would find there way here. I almost regret asking my question now as I know he won't be able to answer it so he'll just try and obfuscate. It's a bit like arguing with the Tin Foil Hat crew - although in fairness he hasn't quoted the bible yet, or posted YouTube videos, to support his point of view (which would be like me quoting Marx to someone like Beach Hut in order to try and stop them from voting Tory)

I wonder if he could be 'Falmer' previously of this parish? (The one who thought the world would end this year).

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

oh the irony.

You just don't get the point, do you.

Try finding a course in critical thinking.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

In the end it doesn't really matter where we came from. It's more where we are heading is the worry.

 

[Stewart]

It' funny how easy it is to wind you all up, you just have to pick your words carefully and BOOM! 5 quotes and 1 new mention.

I'm actually a very smart guy, and to be honest, I do believe that there is a God. There's evidence on the other side as well, so you science arse lickers, here's some of my reasons.

1. MIRACLES
They happen all the time, one of my friends is a drummer and has been all his life, by the age of 19 though he was as good as deaf. Somebody prayed for him and his hearing came back instantly to 100%. Another one was of a man who had one leg, there are many witnesses and his testimony is somewhere online of his leg simply growing back, amazing if true. There are many many more, doctors simply telling severe cancer patients to go home after there "being nothing wrong with them". There have been MANY scientists who have gone out to try and disprove Christianity, but many of those have failed and become Christians! I'm not saying there is a God, I'm saying that there bloody well might be! It's so hard to explain from a Christian's point of view, but there's something out there, forget all the science.
2. Prayer's working
There have been times where as a church or a group in our church pray for something and it happens. Or when somebody prays for something and they get it. It may not seem that amazing, but I have a true story of what happened to a guy in our church. Basically he was having bad financial problems, he needed about £100 to get to the end of the month, which he didn't have. He lived on his own, and had not told ANYBODY about his issues with money. He prayed and prayed and prayed for days, until one night he opened his bible and there was £100 sitting in between 2 pages. There are LOADS of true stories like that, 1 of them must be true if you think that it's just a coincidence?!
3. Jesus existed
Even if you are an atheist, JESUS did exist. There is more scientific evidence for his existence than Nero! So who was he in you guy's opinion?

 

[Stewart]

I don't think it is a wind-up, there are far too many people like Stewart so it's understandable that some would find there way here. I almost regret asking my question now as I know he won't be able to answer it so he'll just try and obfuscate. It's a bit like arguing with the Tin Foil Hat crew - although in fairness he hasn't quoted the bible yet, or posted YouTube videos, to support his point of view (which would be like me quoting Marx to someone like Beach Hut in order to try and stop them from voting Tory)

I wonder if he could be 'Falmer' previously of this parish? (The one who thought the world would end this year).

You're a bit of an idiot if you think I wasn't trying to wind you up. Atheists are the easiest group of people to annoy, I used the opportunity last night as I was bored.

 

[sten_super]

[MENTION=23499]Stewart[/MENTION], thanks for coming back and attempting to put across your point of view.

The issue I have (as an atheist) with the idea of miracles and prayer 'working' is that it's so inconsistent. Why does God (who apparently allows free will) pick and choose so seemingly randomly when to get involved. Why does he save some cancer sufferers and not others? Why did your friend recover his hearing when thousands of others didn't? There's (as far as I'm aware) no logical pattern in his interventions, which you'd expect there would be if it was the result of some other intelligence (rather than to random medical chance, which is my own view).

On the question of Jesus - I think he probably did exist, although contemporary evidence (rather than that written after the event) is pretty scarce. IMHO the most likely explanation is that he was a con-man; an inspiring orator that was able to very cleverly use set pieces to convince people that he was a deity.

 

[BadFish]

It' funny how easy it is to wind you all up, you just have to pick your words carefully and BOOM! 5 quotes and 1 new mention.

I'm actually a very smart guy, and to be honest, I do believe that there is a God. There's evidence on the other side as well, so you science arse lickers, here's some of my reasons.

You certainly are. You managed to cause discussion on a discussion board.

You should be very proud of your success.

 

[Stewart]

[MENTION=23499]Stewart[/MENTION], thanks for coming back and attempting to put across your point of view.

The issue I have (as an atheist) with the idea of miracles and prayer 'working' is that it's so inconsistent. Why does God (who apparently allows free will) pick and choose so seemingly randomly when to get involved. Why does he save some cancer sufferers and not others? Why did your friend recover his hearing when thousands of others didn't? There's (as far as I'm aware) no logical pattern in his interventions, which you'd expect there would be if it was the result of some other intelligence (rather than to random medical chance, which is my own view).

On the question of Jesus - I think he probably did exist, although contemporary evidence (rather than that written after the event) is pretty scarce. IMHO the most likely explanation is that he was a con-man; an inspiring orator that was able to very cleverly use set pieces to convince people that he was a deity.

If God answered EVERY SINGLE prayer, then it would literally be the end of the world, that's why God "pick and chooses" to put it like that, though that's a whole different confusing subject. If an atheist prays in a moment of desperation (which happens all the time) why should God answer their prayer?

Jesus was not a conman, in those times to do the stuff he allegedly did would have taken a whole lot more than just being a conman.

 

[beorhthelm]

I'm actually a very smart guy, and to be honest, I do believe that there is a God.

a contradiction, shirley?

There's evidence on the other side as well, so you science arse lickers, here's some of my reasons.

oh dear, you think that science is opposite to religion? they have nothing to do with each other really, religion is about philosophy and science is about knowledge. i reckon you'll stuggle with the meaning of "evidence" and "reason", so the rest of this should be fun.

1. MIRACLES

your examples are apocryphal stories, with no evidence . provide it, who's your drummer friend, im sure he must be well known for such a fantastic reversal of fortune.
Scientist dont try to disprove christianity, philosophers do. there's nothing in christianity thats is a scientific theory to be addressed by science. theres a few stories that scientist will try to prove/disproved are possible or not within the bounds of science, not the same thing.

2. Prayer's working

you do stuggle with that "evidence" concept dont you.

3. Jesus existed
Even if you are an atheist, JESUS did exist. There is more scientific evidence for his existence than Nero! So who was he in you guy's opinion?

nope, wrong. there is no scientific evidence for either existing. you're thinking documentary or historic evidence. the fact that the question is even debated shows there is very little genuine evidence for "Jesus". some people (of a religious persusion) even question things like his name and details of his life. the best that can be said is that someone with a similar name (which is a corruption via Greek and Latin) probably existed, as a sort of rebelious revolutionary thinker of the day. its a shame actually, because the basic ascribed teachings (summed up as dont be an arsehole) are good and its a shame he got bundled up with all the Bible Part I rubbish and the Peter and Paul rivalry after him.

 

[Stewart]

a contradiction, shirley?


oh dear, you think that science is opposite to religion? they have nothing to do with each other really, religion is about philosophy and science is about knowledge. i reckon you'll stuggle with the meaning of "evidence" and "reason", so the rest of this should be fun.



your examples are apocryphal stories, with no evidence . provide it, who's your drummer friend, im sure he must be well known for such a fantastic reversal of fortune.
Scientist dont try to disprove christianity, philosophers do. there's nothing in christianity thats is a scientific theory to be addressed by science. theres a few stories that scientist will try to prove/disproved are possible or not within the bounds of science, not the same thing.




you do stuggle with that "evidence" concept dont you.




nope, wrong. there is no scientific evidence for either existing. you're thinking documentary or historic evidence. the fact that the question is even debated shows there is very little genuine evidence for "Jesus". some people (of a religious persusion) even question things like his name and details of his life. the best that can be said is that someone with a similar name (which is a corruption via Greek and Latin) probably existed, as a sort of rebelious revolutionary thinker of the day. its a shame actually, because the basic ascribed teachings (summed up as dont be an arsehole) are good and its a shame he got bundled up with all the Bible Part I rubbish and the Peter and Paul rivalry after him.

Evidence? If someone get's healed, and believes in God, then to them it wouldn't be a surprise, "oh God did it again! Yay!"

This happened, all of my friends who know him say they couldn't spark a conversation with him, he could simply just not hear them. And how can I get evidence for this anyway on a message board? What I'm saying is true, most people who have been healed don't thend to brag about it on the internet.

Jesus did exist, they have records of him. Google it.

 

[jgmcdee]

Sorry, but...

2. Prayer's working
There have been times where as a church or a group in our church pray for something and it happens. Or when somebody prays for something and they get it. It may not seem that amazing, but I have a true story of what happened to a guy in our church. Basically he was having bad financial problems, he needed about £100 to get to the end of the month, which he didn't have. He lived on his own, and had not told ANYBODY about his issues with money. He prayed and prayed and prayed for days, until one night he opened his bible and there was £100 sitting in between 2 pages. There are LOADS of true stories like that, 1 of them must be true if you think that it's just a coincidence?!

This is quite possibly the most tawdry attempt ever to prove the existence of a supreme being. Ever. "Pray to God enough and he might slip you a tenner"?

I don't see many people out there attempting to prove Christianity, it being a certified religion and all that, but of course you can't disprove God because the nature of God is, by definition, outside of the scope of anything that we mere mortals could come up with. But I do keep Christianity on the same level as Pastafarianism, and will continue to do so as and until He decides to reveal himself in a non-monetary fashion.

 

[sten_super]

If God answered EVERY SINGLE prayer, then it would literally be the end of the world, that's why God "pick and chooses" to put it like that, though that's a whole different confusing subject. If an atheist prays in a moment of desperation (which happens all the time) why should God answer their prayer?

I'm not talking about the kind of orderly system you describe though. If he consistently answered the prayers of the most faithful, and spurned the prayers of the heathens, then there would be a clear system in place, a pecking order of sorts. But there isn't. Some heathens get desperate prayers answered, many of the faithful have their prayers go unanswered.

To be honest, part of the thing I really don't understand about most religions is the organised nature of it. If there truly is a omnipotent god up there somewhere, why the hell would he care whether I spent my Sunday morning in Church? Why would he demand that I worship him? I'm smaller than a gnat's testicle in his general scheme of things - in fact the whole of the human race is (at best, given what we know about the size of the universe) a small colony of ants to him, so why would he care in the slightest? It seems to me a very arrogant thing, to believe that God cares about each and every one of us, cares what we do and how we act.

Jesus was not a conman, in those times to do the stuff he allegedly did would have taken a whole lot more than just being a conman.

Your knowledge of the Bible is much better than mine (I assume!) but I'm not really convinced that many of the incidents (which, of course, may or may not have occurred, given that it was written after the event and no doubt embellished subsequently) required much more than a believing audience and a couple of ringers.

 

[teaboy]

If God answered EVERY SINGLE prayer, then it would literally be the end of the world, that's why God "pick and chooses" to put it like that, though that's a whole different confusing subject. If an atheist prays in a moment of desperation (which happens all the time) why should God answer their prayer?

Jesus was not a conman, in those times to do the stuff he allegedly did would have taken a whole lot more than just being a conman.

Is your god not omnipotent then?

 

[Stewart]

Is your god not omnipotent then?

He has the power, just doesn't use it.

 

[teaboy]

He has the power, just doesn't use it.

Sounds spiteful...

 

[Stewart]

I'm not talking about the kind of orderly system you describe though. If he consistently answered the prayers of the most faithful, and spurned the prayers of the heathens, then there would be a clear system in place, a pecking order of sorts. But there isn't. Some heathens get desperate prayers answered, many of the faithful have their prayers go unanswered.

To be honest, part of the thing I really don't understand about most religions is the organised nature of it. If there truly is a omnipotent god up there somewhere, why the hell would he care whether I spent my Sunday morning in Church? Why would he demand that I worship him? I'm smaller than a gnat's testicle in his general scheme of things - in fact the whole of the human race is (at best, given what we know about the size of the universe) a small colony of ants to him, so why would he care in the slightest? It seems to me a very arrogant thing, to believe that God cares about each and every one of us, cares what we do and how we act.

But whose to say who the most faithful are? I could be the most faithful man in the world, but no one knows that, and all my prayers might be being answered?! Every single christian has a different level of faith. If you pray for something, you may not need it, so therefore, God doesn't give it to you. That is what I think, the sort of system is in place. Christians believe that God has a plan for everyone's life, if a cancer patient dies, despite praying to live, then maybe he wasn't needed on Earth anymore? To you this may sound just stupid, I believe God has a plan for me, and so does every other christian. Most christians KNOW what that plan is, and are cracking on with it. If your plan was lets say to be a drummer, and you prayed and prayed and prayed for a guitar, you obviously wound't get it!

 

[BadFish]

Sounds spiteful...

Read the old testament, before they re-branded him. Spiteful doesn't even come close.