[Politics] Every other NEW PM since Heath was appointed without us voting

[Ninja Elephant]

So, the point was that a party electing a new Prime Minister without going to the bother of putting it to a General Election? But, by your own original post, you've pointed out that 50% of the last 8 Prime Ministers have been properly elected to the position. Which is how it should be.

If Mrs May wants to stand down, that's fine - and for the Conservatives to hold their process of electing a new leader is fine, but when the Parliament is dissolved in order for Johnson to be duly appointed by The Queen, that's when there should be a General Election in my opinion. In this case, it would have been Johnson's Conservatives vs Corbyn's Labour and Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats. Then a duly elected Prime Minister would have been appointed to form a government and SURELY, that's how it should be? Rather than Johnson inheriting the position.

Also, a big issue I have with the current system is that you are, in effect, supporting a party when you're voting on a local level. I live in Peter Kyle's Ward, so he gets my vote and that means I'm voting for Labour to be in government. That might not necessarily be who I want in power, so I'd have the option either of voting for my man and hoping he wins but his party doesn't overall, or voting for someone else in the hope they'll win nationally. It's far from perfect.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I can see your point you are trying to highlight but the figure is 50% . In a democracy you would have thought a change in leader ship should trigger a GE within 3 months of the new leader taking power to let the voters have their say who they want to run the country. Don't give me this bull about you vote for a set of ideas and a party to run the country so it shouldn't matter who is in charge, it makes an enormous diference who is in charge to the electorate. Anyway it shouldn't matter because although Boris was voted in by the Tory elite I should imagine he has so many dissenters in his own party he will take less than 3 months to fall on his own sword. The Tories are terrified of Jeremy Corbyn and they have just elevated a man who could turn out to be far more unpopular to the general public than Jezza himself.

I don't say I agree with it, but the point is we do have a history of precedent of PMs coming to power without elections, and in the case of Major and Brown, didn't trigger elections for well over a year, 16 months for Major, just a shade under 3 years for Brown.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

“It’s the arrogance. It’s the contempt. That’s what gets me. It’s Gordon Brown’s apparent belief that he can just trample on the democratic will of the British people. It’s at moments like this that I think the political world has gone mad, and I am alone in detecting the gigantic fraud.”

BJ on Brown becoming PM without a general election.

This is so not funny because it is so true. Boris is a hypocrite of the highest order.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Major won a general election. Assuming this rather confusing thread is aimed somewhere towards that.

The point being he didn't face one for nearly a year and a half, and only did because the time limit was up.

 

[Nottseagull]

No, Callaghan, Major and May weren't elected by party membership, they were elected by MPs

I realise that but I think Nicko31's question was more about whether they were elected by the populace or not. In any case, the PCP or PLP MPs are all party members, aren't they?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

The point being he didn't face one for nearly a year and a half, and only did because the time limit was up.

Still won, it hasn't got GE next to his name, irrespective of should he, shouldn't he,

 

[Bold Seagull]

Still won, it hasn't got GE next to his name, irrespective of should he, shouldn't he,

The list isn't about who won general elections as such, it is a list showing PMs who were appointed without a GE.

Both May and Major were appointed PM without a GE. That they subsequently won GEs is irrelevant given their initial appointment was without one.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

I don't say I agree with it, but the point is we do have a history of precedent of PMs coming to power without elections, and in the case of Major and Brown, didn't trigger elections for well over a year, 16 months for Major, just a shade under 3 years for Brown.

I agree with you not agreeing it highlights what an undemocratic government we have to endure, although the learned would let you know that you vote for a party in an election and not a personality which is absolutely surreal as the fear the Tories exude about the scenario of Corbyn winning a bonafide GE is hilarious after they alone elect a Prime Minister who may turn out to be the most incompetent PM ever ( Dons tin hat from Boris fans)

 

[A1X]

Of course it is worth remembering that Theresa May wasn't even voted in by her party, she basically won by default on the back of the votes of 100 or so Tory MPs to get her onto the ballot. Brown also wasn't voted for by his party, that was a coronation.

As for Johnson, well it is rather awkward given he once said this...

 

[blue-shifted]

Constitutionally, what you say is correct. However in practice it isn't, you're voting for a leader. Look at Farage and the recent fortunes of the Brexit Party v UKIP then think a bit more whether you think it's parties or leaders that predominate. We now have leadership debates which sway the votes of millions of people, (A debate launched Nick Clegg from obscurity). If there was an election now, it would be framed as Corbyn v Johnson. It's just the way we are these days, we have to link things to person to be able to understand things it seems.

Heath GE 1970
Callaghan 1976?
Thatcher GE 1979
Major 1990
Blair GE 1997
Brown 2007?
Cameron GE 2010
May 2016

Sorry to those annoyed by the current NSC parlance, but the bedwetters who are complaining that the PM has not been been elected by the populace should realise that this is the norm in the UK. You vote for a party at a General Election and you accept that if it wins, its leader will automatically be Prime Minister, whosoever that party chooses.

 

[Chicken Run]

I can see your point you are trying to highlight but the figure is 50% . In a democracy you would have thought a change in leader ship should trigger a GE within 3 months of the new leader taking power to let the voters have their say who they want to run the country. Don't give me this bull about you vote for a set of ideas and a party to run the country so it shouldn't matter who is in charge, it makes an enormous diference who is in charge to the electorate. Anyway it shouldn't matter because although Boris was voted in by the Tory elite I should imagine he has so many dissenters in his own party he will take less than 3 months to fall on his own sword. The Tories are terrified of Jeremy Corbyn and they have just elevated a man who could turn out to be far more unpopular to the general public than Jezza himself.

I would hardly describe for example Janice from Worcester the Tory elite?

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Your question indicates that some people don't realise this, hence the need for the thread. Callaghan, Major and May all were, and Brown gained power unopposed.

May was also unopposed

 

[Gwylan]

May was also unopposed

Not quite: there was an election and she came in the first two. Leadsom subsequently withdrew so May won by default

 

[lawros left foot]

We can add hypocrite to Bozos list of character traits along with liar, racist, and homophobe. Edit, I forgot adulterer, as well.

What a credit to our country he truly is.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

The list isn't about who won general elections as such, it is a list showing PMs who were appointed without a GE.

Both May and Major were appointed PM without a GE. That they subsequently won GEs is irrelevant given their initial appointment was without one.

I don't really get the point of the thread.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Agree entirely.

There's plenty enough reason to be unhappy about the state of affairs without needing the precise manner of Johnson's ascendency to the big chair.

All that notinmyname guff is precisely that.

Exactly. I have no problem whatsoever with the mechanism by which Boris the liar became PM. However I have yet to see any bedwetting about this. Maybe I haven't been paying attention. Can someone paste the howls of outrage into a reply? Sounds like a job for our resident pedant. [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION]!!!

Edit - just heard Corbyn whinging about it on radio 5. What a tit.

 

[Nottseagull]

Exactly. I have no problem whatsoever with the mechanism by which Boris the liar became PM. However I have yet to see any bedwetting about this. Maybe I haven't been paying attention. Can someone paste the howls of outrage into a reply? Sounds like a job for our resident pedant. [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION]!!!

Edit - just heard Corbyn whinging about it on radio 5. What a tit.

TBF there were only a couple that I noticed on NSC, and I can't remember which threads they were on.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I don't really get the point of the thread.

It's to point out that anyone claiming it is undemocratic to appoint BJ as PM is missing the point that it is a very common precedent.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's to point out that anyone claiming it is undemocratic to appoint BJ as PM is missing the point that it is a very common precedent.

I can understand people needing an explanation for the thread (I am inferring this.....) because, as I said, I wasn't aware that holws of outrage are the new thing. The fact that Corbyn is complaining pretty much validates it as right and proppper.

My god, though. Boris the liar as PM. I just heard Trump endorsing him (then spending even more time endorsing Nigel: "what a great team" FFS!)

 

[beorhthelm]

go back further than Heath and you find a Lord as PM in the 50s (Douglas-Home, hastily found a seat), Churchill, Chamberlin, chap bfore that and Lloyd-George all taking office without a popular vote.

face facts people we vote for parliament, not the Prime Minister. you'd have thought with all the stuff about sovereignty of parliament, votes of confidence, speaker blocking government business, we'd have understood this.