[Football] Euros 2024 - Matchday 7

[Dorset Seagull]

I was gobsmacked to hear him say we have had issues in midfield for 8 years because we dont have a replacement for Calvin Phillips. In that case change the system to suit the players you do have!

In fact he can still play his beloved 4-2-3-1 as follows. Move the 2 DM’s to central midfield. Have Rice drop back a bit to cover centre backs. Get Jude along side going box to box. Put Foden in the hole and fill the rest of the positions with any of the players left.

That is the simple solution that will win us games

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's just unfortunate that England encountered a half decent team so early in the competition. Never usually happens

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He is incredibly accurate and the stats will show that, if people can't hold the ball up. Of all the problems England have Goalkeeper is the least of them.

Can you show these stats which show how many times his upfield hoofs meet a colleague?

 

[BevBHA]

Your last point is the problem. We have too many good players for some positions and none for others. Keeper and left back are the worst problems. Then you’ve got Bellingham and Foden who are basically the same player getting in each others’ way, just like Lampard and Gerrard did in another badly coached “golden” side.

We can’t do much about keeper or left back in this tournament unfortunately. However, there’s got to be a case for Bellingham and Foden playing a half each if they’re as tired as people claim instead of watching both of them become completely ineffective as they compete with each other for space.

And I’ll say it again, get Kane dropped. He drags the whole team 10 yards too deep.

Ludicrous to suggest our best 2 players shouldn’t be on the pitch together! It’s mismanagement not to find a solution. Look at Musiala and Wirtz with Germany, very similar players in identical favoured positions and they’re getting a tune out of them and winning games comfortably. It’s what top managers do.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Schmeichel with all respect is complete shite, a far far far inferior keeper to Pickford. Theres a reason he's playing in the Belgian league at 37 unlike other top keepers, Pickford will be at a much higher level at 37.

I found this from 2 seasons ago.

Is it just me or are Premier League goalkeepers getting younger these days? - Football365

Goalkeepers have long been feted for playing into their 40s, but outfield players are lasting longer while keepers may be getting younger.

www.football365.com

I'd suggest the reason he is playing (at the top end of) the Belgian League is because the options in the EPL are severly limited for 37 year old goalkeepers.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Can you show these stats which show how many times his upfield hoofs meet a colleague?

Yes. The keeper is a good shot stopper but he is suited to playing for a fairly industrial side where he can hoof it to the big man. Remind me again, who does he play for?

I have felt the whole set up has been old fashioned. I am sure most England fans are thrilled we don't fanny around at the back like Citeh or Brighton (heaven forfend) . . . but the more direct approach, of rolling the ball to Rice who runs from deep and then pings it out wide to someone who then plays the ball back to Rice who.... is not working.

Top football now involves possession with intent, and with fast clever players capable of receiving the right ball when tightly marked an one touching to a colleague who can beat the defenders and score. Bosh.

We are not setting up to play this way. We can't play a Dunk (or a Dunk upgrade) in the Pirlo position if Rice is there, hogging the midfield like a kid who has drunk too much Red Bull. Rice is ruining England in my opinion. He offers nothing and yet hogs everything. He was even getting in Bellingham's space yesterday. And poor old Foden must wonder whether he's woken up and foung himself on loan at Bury. An absolutely elite player made to look like a nobody because of how we set up. He had one blistering run yesterday but his team mates just stood and watched.

Has Southgate got the nous to change it up? Personally I would drop Rice. Let Stones play. Put a centre forward ahead of Kane.

 

[Hiheidi]

Can you show these stats which show how many times his upfield hoofs meet a colleague?

 

[jackalbion]

Can you show these stats which show how many times his upfield hoofs meet a colleague?

Can't be bothered to find them but they are decent for Everton, you can see it with your own eyes at the games, its clearly not massively working for England, but I don't think it solely down to him, there is a much wider problem. I think there is a difference in play style between him and others and its southgate's job to get the best out of them.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Ludicrous to suggest our best 2 players shouldn’t be on the pitch together! It’s mismanagement not to find a solution. Look at Musiala and Wirtz with Germany, very similar players in identical favoured positions and they’re getting a tune out of them and winning games comfortably. It’s what top managers do.

It's how they play as part of the team, not if they are our 'best players'. If they're unable to work together and find their own space then they're not as good as the hype. Bellingham was useless last night.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That last compilation shows the total folly of hoofing the ball upfield in elite modern football….the vast majority of time the hoof is a 50/50 as a bunch of players scramble to get to the ball and then scramble to get it under control.

 

[peterward]

I was gobsmacked to hear him say we have had issues in midfield for 8 years because we dont have a replacement for Calvin Phillips. In that case change the system to suit the players you do have!

In fact he can still play his beloved 4-2-3-1 as follows. Move the 2 DM’s to central midfield. Have Rice drop back a bit to cover centre backs. Get Jude along side going box to box. Put Foden in the hole and fill the rest of the positions with any of the players left.

That is the simple solution that will win us games

Rice isnt a traditional number 6 sitting DM, he isnt very good at that role at all, when under pressure at the back, with his back to goal or on the half turn, hes much better as an 8 higher up the field, and thats where he's played well for West Ham and Arsenal to much greater effect.

The problem with playing Rice in his preferred 8 or hybrid 8/10, is that both Bellingham a good number 8 and 10, needs to play the 8 role if Foden is going to play in his best positon as a number 10.

Those 3 can't all play in their best positions and where theyve played best for their clubs, having Rice as a 6 or Foden on left wing is square pegs in round holes to try and shoe horn in your perceived better players, but playing them out of their most effective positions which ends in lack of balance and a shambles like last night..

As much as I dont want to advance the interests of a Palace player, drop Trent, put Wharton in there to sit and release Bellingham, Put Foden as the 10 and give Kane the runners and pace on both sides in Saka and either Palmer or Gordon on left.

Yes that leaves no place for Rice and Waistcoat wont do it, but Wharton, is better on half turn with back to goal and moving foward. Bellingham, La Liga player of the year is better as an 8 than Rice, and Foden, PL player of year is better than both as 10 than Rice. plus we need the pace down both flanks to help Kane, and Foden is not a left winger.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Seen a few say it's the worst performance since Iceland. Don't forget the game Vs USA last tournament or probably even worse Vs Scotland (fecking Scotland) at the last euros, and that was at wembley FFS.

Fair play to Southgate at other tournaments he's kind of turned it round and weve had the smooth with the rough. This time around we just look doomed. Players strangely dropping out of their own accord pre tournament. Everyone seems to know he's gone after the euros and can't be arsed.

I think last night was worse than either of the games you mention. Like you say it looked very much like a team that knew the manager was gone. We've all seen teams play like that when the manager is on his way out the door.

I don't know how much there is to that interpretation but it's what it felt like last night. Had the same feeling as the last days of hughton or that month or so under rdz.


You'd hope not with it being an international tournament but it's what it felt like.

 

[Seagull58]

His kicking is not superb. He smacks a 5 iron every time. Gives up the ball over 70% of the time. It's lower league shit

That accurately describes what I saw. After we brought on Watkins and Eze, Pickford pretty much played hoofball for the last 20 minutes. I saw several hoofs land squarely on Danish heads between their box and the centre circle. He did kick one or two out wide but they were 50/50s, not clean possession.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

We missed one of those five tournaments.

Yes, that's why said either failed to qualify for tournaments or stunk them out. Its arguable that 2008 was our most enjoyable tournament out of the five!

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

We'll have to agree to disagree as these same players just a few weeks ago were on fire for their clubs

Imo it's on the manager that they now look like they have no clue what they're supposed to be doing, then in turn lose confidence in the 'plan', then can't string two passes together as a result. And they kept having the ball nicked off them as they had few/no options- also on the manager

All on the manager. Look at the other top nations (bar Italy last night) who have a similar calibre of player but able to play with fluidity and confidence due to the tactics of their manager

Yeah, let's agree to disagree.

 

[Seagull58]

The 2 biggest problems last night were Harry Kane and Declan Rice, both dropping too deep and pulling England back too deep with no out ball option.

Rice is always going to the CBs to take the ball, Stones and Guehi are more than capable of passing it out and through the lines themselves.

Kane didn't press and was coming way too deep.

Those 2 dramatically altered our shape and ruined any balance

This Rice thing is driving me mad. He did it in the games Dunk played as well. He comes deep, insists on receiving the ball from the CB, then turns to confront a settled, 10 man defensive structure. No attempt to to find space further forward without the ball and play on the half-turn through the first defensive line. Utterly predictable.

 

[Seagull58]

He is incredibly accurate and the stats will show that, if people can't hold the ball up. Of all the problems England have Goalkeeper is the least of them.

He spent the last 20 minutes launching 50/50 long balls up the middle, all of which were won by Danish defenders.

 

[jackalbion]

That last compilation shows the total folly of hoofing the ball upfield in elite modern football….the vast majority of time the hoof is a 50/50 as a bunch of players scramble to get to the ball and then scramble to get it under control.

But ultimately other than one or two they are accurate, the problem isn't his kicking, its the instruction to do so. That is either A) coming from the manager, or B) players on the pitch. The Bellingham option being the exception, no one is offering and that's why Pickford is going long. Its a 50/50.

 

[Seagull58]

Rice isnt a traditional number 6 sitting DM, he isnt very good at that role at all, when under pressure at the back, with his back to goal or on the half turn, hes much better as an 8 higher up the field, and thats where he's played well for West Ham and Arsenal to much greater effect.

The problem with playing Rice in his preferred 8 or hybrid 8/10, is that both Bellingham a good number 8 and 10, needs to play the 8 role if Foden is going to play in his best positon as a number 10.

Those 3 can't all play in their best positions and where theyve played best for their clubs, having Rice as a 6 or Foden on left wing is square pegs in round holes to try and shoe horn in your perceived better players, but playing them out of their most effective positions which ends in lack of balance and a shambles like last night..

As much as I dont want to advance the interests of a Palace player, drop Trent, put Wharton in there to sit and release Bellingham, Put Foden as the 10 and give Kane the runners and pace on both sides in Saka and either Palmer or Gordon on left.

Yes that leaves no place for Rice and Waistcoat wont do it, but Wharton, is better on half turn with back to goal and moving foward. Bellingham, La Liga player of the year is better as an 8 than Rice, and Foden, PL player of year is better than both as 10 than Rice. plus we need the pace down both flanks to help Kane, and Foden is not a left winger.

or Rice can play 10 to 15 yards further forward, closely connected to the other midfielders and wide players and allowing the CBs to play the passes through and around the first defensive line.

 

[jackalbion]

He spent the last 20 minutes launching 50/50 long balls up the middle, all of which were won by Danish defenders.

They are accurate however, and this is the problem, the kicking is good, but the instruction to do so is poor. Look at the compilation above, they hit the target.