[Football] Euros 2024 - Matchday 7

[peterward]

I finally got round to watching the game, and have just finished. Blimey that was a hard watch. I have never had a problem with Southgate and think he's been one of our best managers. But that was on him, and so disappointing after the success of the part few tournaments that we have ended up in this one with a right back at left back, another right back in central midfield, a central midfielder on the left wing and a centre forward who wants to be a deep lying playmaker.

And then the players - don't they want to be here? Some shocking performances. Guehi about the only one who can be proud of how he played.

 

[Bry Nylon]

I think people are wrong about the "effort" thing. Most of the players would probably send their grandma to the great farm on the countryside if it guaranteed a win for them (and the weird island they represent).

People easily look "lazy" when they are afraid and don't know what to do.

Will be interesting to see what England could do in the future if they appoint someone who has a masters degree in making people feel cool and confident in crisis/intense situations, because a lot of the England issues are down to psychology.

Yes. I think you've summed it up better than I had.

They looked anxious, unsure and afraid. Any hope I had for the second half drained out of me at that point.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

His kicking is superb, only need to be sat behind him to see this, example 1: Setting Branthwaite up for their opener at the Amex. Of all the people to complain about it’s the goal keeper for not saving a Howitzer. Have you watched our other goal keepers? Ramsdale couldn’t catch a cold, Henderson somehow conceded more goals for Palace than we did, Trafford got dropped for someone who struggles to trap a ball. Pickford is by far and away our best goal keeper.

His kicking is not superb. He smacks a 5 iron every time. Gives up the ball over 70% of the time. It's lower league shit

 

[Justice]

Bowen and Gallagher the Southgate super subs

 

[peterward]

Agree completely.

Half disagree. His long kicking is good (but if one of his passes go over the sideline, plenty will; seems mentally weak) but his short passing is "please don't", which is one of the reasons he is consistently one of the most "launching" keepers in the league. And England doesn't have a lot of players strong enough to win the first ball or aggressive enough to win the second. I don't think GS has the balls to bench two of the four "give me the ball or I'll do pretty much nothing" lads up front to put in off the ball players like Bowen and Toney (and/or Watkins) instead of Kane + someone.

Toney and Watkins together up front would have been very interesting to see. 4-4-2 might be out of fashion but its better than trying to beat continental nations in their own game because England can't really do that right now.


England rarely get into positions where Palmer and Gordon would have been useful. They, similar to Foden, are also players who don't really do much without the ball. Bit like Foden, they are dependent on someone winning the ball and bringing it to them but thats easier said than done with an underwhelming back line and the somewhat overrated Declan Rice in charge of distribution. A job he isn't good enough to combine with the necessity of being a work horse as well.

The 2 biggest problems last night were Harry Kane and Declan Rice, both dropping too deep and pulling England back too deep with no out ball option.

Rice is always going to the CBs to take the ball, Stones and Guehi are more than capable of passing it out and through the lines themselves.

Kane didn't press and was coming way too deep.

Those 2 dramatically altered our shape and ruined any balance

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The 2 biggest problems last night were Harry Kane and Declan Rice, both dropping too deep and pulling England back too deep with no out ball option.

Rice is always going to the CBs to take the ball, Stones and Guehi are more than capable of passing it out and through the lines themselves.

Kane didn't press and was coming way too deep.

Those 2 dramatically altered our shape and ruined any balance

Almost word for word, what a PNE fan was saying to us in the bar last night.

 

[peterward]

Almost word for word, what a PNE fan was saying to us in the bar last night.

I could see it, you could most likely, the PNE fan could but not waistcoat.

I honesty don't think many on NSC as hardcore footy fans, with that squad and even no coaching badges could do much worse.

The problems were pretty obvious even without a UEFA pro licence.

 

[BN41Albion]

I disagree. There is plenty to hang on Southgate for that performance. Players misplacing passes when under no pressure isn't one of them. Players losing the ball because they let the opposition get in front of them and nick it isn't either.

We'll have to agree to disagree as these same players just a few weeks ago were on fire for their clubs

Imo it's on the manager that they now look like they have no clue what they're supposed to be doing, then in turn lose confidence in the 'plan', then can't string two passes together as a result. And they kept having the ball nicked off them as they had few/no options- also on the manager

All on the manager. Look at the other top nations (bar Italy last night) who have a similar calibre of player but able to play with fluidity and confidence due to the tactics of their manager

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

We'll have to agree to disagree as these same players just a few weeks ago were on fire for their clubs

Imo it's on the manager that they now look like they have no clue what they're supposed to be doing, then in turn lose confidence in the 'plan', then can't string two passes together as a result. And they kept having the ball nicked off them as they had few/no options- also on the manager

All on the manager. Look at the other top nations (bar Italy last night) who have a similar calibre of player but able to play with fluidity and confidence due to the tactics of their manager

You’re absolutely correct. The impact a manager has on the team is sometimes forgotten. We witnessed it this season the moment RDZ started moaning. Southgate and his coaching staff have such a negative impact. Also there’s no leader on the pitch. Kane as a person has a similar persona to Southgate. Neither inspire.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Bowen and Gallagher the Southgate super subs

I like the energy Bowen brings when he comes on. Made an immediate impact vs Serbia, at the very least doing something different.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Any chance of a player rebellion and forcing Southgate to change or are these "great" players too weak? They must know Southgate is gone after this tournament. I thought we had a bit of this with Bellingham's raging and magnificent first 30 mins vs Serbia but he seems to have gone into his shell. #CallingBenWhite.

 

[Han Solo]

I like the energy Bowen brings when he comes on. Made an immediate impact vs Serbia, at the very least doing something different.

Him and Watkins are the only ones better without the ball than with it. You kind of need a few of those in a team.

 

[BN41Albion]

Any chance of a player rebellion and forcing Southgate to change or are these "great" players too weak? They must know Southgate is a gone after this tournament. I thought we had a bit of this with Bellingham's raging and magnificent first 30 mins vs Serbia but he seems to have gone into his shell. #CallingBenWhite.

I know they have to toe the line to the media, but I heavily suspect the players are royally fecked off with Southgate and his stifling tactics. There's no way on earth those group of players don't want to be on the front foot and to take the game to their opponents as they do for their clubs. All adds to them not believing in whatever the bloody hell the plan is supposed to be and then not performing. It's such a shame - with a decent manager we really should be one of the favourites with these players, but it's a joke that we are (were- surely were not still now!) under Southgate

 

[jackalbion]

His kicking is not superb. He smacks a 5 iron every time. Gives up the ball over 70% of the time. It's lower league shit

He is incredibly accurate and the stats will show that, if people can't hold the ball up. Of all the problems England have Goalkeeper is the least of them.

 

[jackalbion]

Your last point is the problem. We have too many good players for some positions and none for others. Keeper and left back are the worst problems. Then you’ve got Bellingham and Foden who are basically the same player getting in each others’ way, just like Lampard and Gerrard did in another badly coached “golden” side.

We can’t do much about keeper or left back in this tournament unfortunately. However, there’s got to be a case for Bellingham and Foden playing a half each if they’re as tired as people claim instead of watching both of them become completely ineffective as they compete with each other for space.

And I’ll say it again, get Kane dropped. He drags the whole team 10 yards too deep.

The Keeper is absolutely fine, I'm not sure what people want Pickford to do additionally, he's sending it long, because no one is giving him the option to pass it about. He's a very good keeper, and will go to a top 6 club if he leaves Everton, people have an agenda about Pickford, because he plays for Everton or is a bit hyperactive, I don't know, easily the best goalkeeping performance I've seen at the Amex. I could argue there are 2 or maybe 3 keepers better than him in the Premier League, that would be Allison, Ederson when he's on form, and Martinez. The left back problem has stunted us, and the fact he relied on Shaw is baffling, we simply can't play a fast winger on the left side (or he chooses not to) because of this. Its painful watching Trippier be forced to cut inside every time.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The Keeper is absolutely fine, I'm not sure what people want Pickford to do additionally, he's sending it long, because no one is giving him the option to pass it about. He's a very good keeper, and will go to a top 6 club if he leaves Everton, people have an agenda about Pickford, because he plays for Everton or is a bit hyperactive, I don't know, easily the best goalkeeping performance I've seen at the Amex. I could argue there are 2 or maybe 3 keepers better than him in the Premier League, that would be Allison, Ederson when he's on form, and Martinez. The left back problem has stunted us, and the fact he relied on Shaw is baffling, we simply can't play a fast winger on the left side (or he chooses not to) because of this. Its painful watching Trippier be forced to cut inside every time.

He's way better than our other keepers and therefore our best option, but IMO in this tournament, Oblak, Donnarumma, Nuer and Simon are better and he's about on a par with Schmeichel. His short passes put us under pressure, he's no Steele with his feet, which is why he goes long.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

The 2 biggest problems last night were Harry Kane and Declan Rice, both dropping too deep and pulling England back too deep with no out ball option.

Rice is always going to the CBs to take the ball, Stones and Guehi are more than capable of passing it out and through the lines themselves.

Kane didn't press and was coming way too deep.

Those 2 dramatically altered our shape and ruined any balance

Absolutely true. We know Kane does this, and sometimes it works, but the other players have to fill in for him. Rice, that one is just weird - do Arsenal play this way?

 

[peterward]

The Keeper is absolutely fine, I'm not sure what people want Pickford to do additionally, he's sending it long, because no one is giving him the option to pass it about. He's a very good keeper, and will go to a top 6 club if he leaves Everton, people have an agenda about Pickford, because he plays for Everton or is a bit hyperactive, I don't know, easily the best goalkeeping performance I've seen at the Amex. I could argue there are 2 or maybe 3 keepers better than him in the Premier League, that would be Allison, Ederson when he's on form, and Martinez. The left back problem has stunted us, and the fact he relied on Shaw is baffling, we simply can't play a fast winger on the left side (or he chooses not to) because of this. Its painful watching Trippier be forced to cut inside every time.

Agreed, you should take the best available English left back rather than play right footed player imho.

If Chillwell and Colwill (I know a left footed CB really) are not availble too.

Tyrick Mitchell of Palace or even our own BDB of Newcastle would have been better options.

 

[jackalbion]

He's way better than our other keepers and therefore our best option, but IMO in this tournament, Oblak, Donnarumma, Nuer and Simon are better and he's about on a par with Schmeichel. His short passes put us under pressure, he's no Steele with his feet, which is why he goes long.

Schmeichel with all respect is complete shite, a far far far inferior keeper to Pickford. Theres a reason he's playing in the Belgian league at 37 unlike other top keepers, Pickford will be at a much higher level at 37. Donnarumma has already conceded a poor poor goal in the first game. Oblak made some great saves throughout the game, but ultimately his positioning was crap for Serbia's equaliser, and arguably costed them the points. They all have mistakes in them.

 

[Han Solo]

Agreed, you should take the best available English left back rather than play right footed player imho.

If Chillwell and Colwill (I know a left footed CB really) are not availble too.

Tyrick Mitchell of Palace or even our own BDB of Newcastle would have been better options.

Dan Burn not playing in the national team is based on underestimating his qualities due to his physical appearance. He should be starting. Will be starting, if GP takes over after the tournament.