[Football] Euros 2024 - Matchday 7

[Kalimantan Gull]

I finally got round to watching the game, and have just finished. Blimey that was a hard watch. I have never had a problem with Southgate and think he's been one of our best managers. But that was on him, and so disappointing after the success of the part few tournaments that we have ended up in this one with a right back at left back, another right back in central midfield, a central midfielder on the left wing and a centre forward who wants to be a deep lying playmaker.

And then the players - don't they want to be here? Some shocking performances. Guehi about the only one who can be proud of how he played.

 

[BN41Albion]

Decent result

4 points and good start

Now to step it up after the next game

On track

All part of the master plan, I'm sure
Come on, that was a shambles and despite being (very lucky to be) on 4 points, we are certainly not on track to go anywhere far

After nights 'sleep' it seems to me that yesterday was a double whammy of shit:

1) The players looked like they had never met each other and had no idea what to do. This is on the manager.

2) The players were absolute dogshit. They struggled to pass accurately, they offered no options to the man on the ball, they were consistently caught in possession, they played with no energy. This is on the players.

Sorry but your second point is 100% on the manager too. They were caught in possession with no options cos they were all over the place and no-one knew what the f*** they were supposed to be doing. That's on the manager

They played with no energy because they were clearly told to half press the ball out of possession which (like Man utd last season) always just looks very lethargic on the players behalf) but also looked like they had no energy because in possession they had little direction. Most of the players have just had superb seasons and we're in the Euros - if they have no energy for it the manager needs to change cos everyone else seems to have energy in abundance!

All those on here who constantly slammed anyone who dared criticise Southgate in the past seem to have gone strangely quiet. More than ever it is so clear to all (surely!) that he is woefully miss managing an incredibly talent group. It's insane that we can be as bad as we have been with the players we have

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Sorry but your second point is 100% on the manager too. They were caught in possession with no options cos they were all over the place and no-one knew what the f*** they were supposed to be doing. That's on the manager

They played with no energy because they were clearly told to half press the ball out of possession which (like Man utd last season) always just looks very lethargic on the players behalf) but also looked like they had no energy because in possession they had little direction. Most of the players have just had superb seasons and we're in the Euros - if they have no energy for it the manager needs to change cos everyone else seems to have energy in abundance!

All those on here who constantly slammed anyone who dared criticise Southgate in the past seem to have gone strangely quiet. More than ever it is so clear to all (surely!) that he is woefully miss managing an incredibly talent group. It's insane that we can be as bad as we have been with the players we have

I disagree. There is plenty to hang on Southgate for that performance. Players misplacing passes when under no pressure isn't one of them. Players losing the ball because they let the opposition get in front of them and nick it isn't either.

I don't think I'll change anyone's opinion on that. The hate for Southgate was big when we were doing well. Now we're actually performing badly it's gone into overdrive.

I miss wc18 when a really poor team on paper played fun football and somehow snuck into the semis. It's a shame that as better players have come into the squad, expectations have risen and England have become a duller watch trying to match them.

Southgate will be gone in a few weeks and then we can sharpen the knives for whoever follows. Same as it ever was.

 

[Justice]

I kind of hope Potter gets the England job

So do I for the laughs

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I disagree. There is plenty to hang on Southgate for that performance. Players misplacing passes when under no pressure isn't one of them. Players losing the ball because they let the opposition get in front of them and nick it isn't either.

I don't think I'll change anyone's opinion on that. The hate for Southgate was big when we were doing well. Now we're actually performing badly it's gone into overdrive.

I miss wc18 when a really poor team on paper played fun football and somehow snuck into the semis. It's a shame that as better players have come into the squad, expectations have risen and England have become a duller watch trying to match them.

Southgate will be gone in a few weeks and then we can sharpen the knives for whoever follows. Same as it ever was.

I agree, the players have to take some of the responsibility for that shit show.

 

[Flounce]

What I find very surprising is that most of the England players play week in week out for quality managers. They know what works and what doesn’t so why didn’t the players themselves work it out on the pitch when it was clear we were being outplayed by Denmark after their goal?

Can we blame the atrocious passing and closing down on the manager, clueless as his tactics might be? Apart from Guehi and Walker they almost looked like they didn’t care.

I reckon Southgate has probably lost the dressing room?

 

[Guinness Boy]

His kicking is superb, only need to be sat behind him to see this, example 1: Setting Branthwaite up for their opener at the Amex. Of all the people to complain about it’s the goal keeper for not saving a Howitzer. Have you watched our other goal keepers? Ramsdale couldn’t catch a cold, Henderson somehow conceded more goals for Palace than we did, Trafford got dropped for someone who struggles to trap a ball. Pickford is by far and away our best goal keeper.

Your last point is the problem. We have too many good players for some positions and none for others. Keeper and left back are the worst problems. Then you’ve got Bellingham and Foden who are basically the same player getting in each others’ way, just like Lampard and Gerrard did in another badly coached “golden” side.

We can’t do much about keeper or left back in this tournament unfortunately. However, there’s got to be a case for Bellingham and Foden playing a half each if they’re as tired as people claim instead of watching both of them become completely ineffective as they compete with each other for space.

And I’ll say it again, get Kane dropped. He drags the whole team 10 yards too deep.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

What I find very surprising is that most of the England players play week in week out for quality managers. They know what works and what doesn’t so why didn’t the players themselves work it out on the pitch when it was clear we were being outplayed by Denmark after their goal?

Can we blame the atrocious passing and closing down on the manager, clueless as his tactics might be? Apart from Guehi and Walker they almost looked like they didn’t care.

I reckon Southgate has probably lost the dressing room?

Yes, he's sat on his hands and made no change from the stinking performance v serbia.

If players are not following his instructions, he's got 5 subs.

His friends in the media are already saying it's not his fault, he's had 8 years to develop a plan/style of play.

What is it?

 

[dwayne]

After nights 'sleep' it seems to me that yesterday was a double whammy of shit:

1) The players looked like they had never met each other and had no idea what to do. This is on the manager.

2) The players were absolute dogshit. They struggled to pass accurately, they offered no options to the man on the ball, they were consistently caught in possession, they played with no energy. This is on the players.

Put the two together and you get the worst performance since Iceland in 2016. This is my biggest fear, that we are going to return to the horrific days of 2008-2016 where we either failed to qualify for tournaments or stunk the tournaments out when we were there.

Something needs to change quite drastically before the next game. Unfortunately that's relying on the weakest aspect of Southgate's management so he's going to have to do something that even someone like me who's defended him a lot doesn't think he's capable of.

Seen a few say it's the worst performance since Iceland. Don't forget the game Vs USA last tournament or probably even worse Vs Scotland (fecking Scotland) at the last euros, and that was at wembley FFS.

Fair play to Southgate at other tournaments he's kind of turned it round and weve had the smooth with the rough. This time around we just look doomed. Players strangely dropping out of their own accord pre tournament. Everyone seems to know he's gone after the euros and can't be arsed.

 

[Nobby]

I finally got round to watching the game, and have just finished. Blimey that was a hard watch. I have never had a problem with Southgate and think he's been one of our best managers. But that was on him, and so disappointing after the success of the part few tournaments that we have ended up in this one with a right back at left back, another right back in central midfield, a central midfielder on the left wing and a centre forward who wants to be a deep lying playmaker.

And then the players - don't they want to be here? Some shocking performances. Guehi about the only one who can be proud of how he played.

Funny isn’t it
How all these world class players suddenly turn to sh*t
I wonder what the common denominator is

 

[Cordwainer]

Your last point is the problem. We have too many good players for some positions and none for others. Keeper and left back are the worst problems. Then you’ve got Bellingham and Foden who are basically the same player getting in each others’ way, just like Lampard and Gerrard did in another badly coached “golden” side.

We can’t do much about keeper or left back in this tournament unfortunately. However, there’s got to be a case for Bellingham and Foden playing a half each if they’re as tired as people claim instead of watching both of them become completely ineffective as they compete with each other for space.

And I’ll say it again, get Kane dropped. He drags the whole team 10 yards too deep.

Foden needs to be in the middle but as you say unlikely to work alongside JB as they will be stepping on each others toes. TAA never again, Gallagher not international standard..start with Mainoo or Wharton, start Watkins ahead of Kane.

 

[Cordwainer]

And in a game that we were in desperate need of some ball carrying man beating pace the fact that either Gordon or Cole ‘Coll’ Palmer didn’t come on shows that GS was happy with the draw. The Danes looked delighted at the end.

 

[Boroseagull]

I was watching the game on Spanish TV and the commentators were far from complimentary about Southgate's changes. In fact one said 'if England lose Southgate deserves to be beaten with clubs'.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

What. A. Waste.

 

[Han Solo]

There is very few keepers in world football who are getting close to that.

Agree completely.

His kicking is superb, only need to be sat behind him to see this, example 1: Setting Branthwaite up for their opener at the Amex. Of all the people to complain about it’s the goal keeper for not saving a Howitzer. Have you watched our other goal keepers? Ramsdale couldn’t catch a cold, Henderson somehow conceded more goals for Palace than we did, Trafford got dropped for someone who struggles to trap a ball. Pickford is by far and away our best goal keeper.

Half disagree. His long kicking is good (but if one of his passes go over the sideline, plenty will; seems mentally weak) but his short passing is "please don't", which is one of the reasons he is consistently one of the most "launching" keepers in the league. And England doesn't have a lot of players strong enough to win the first ball or aggressive enough to win the second. I don't think GS has the balls to bench two of the four "give me the ball or I'll do pretty much nothing" lads up front to put in off the ball players like Bowen and Toney (and/or Watkins) instead of Kane + someone.

Toney and Watkins together up front would have been very interesting to see. 4-4-2 might be out of fashion but its better than trying to beat continental nations in their own game because England can't really do that right now.

And in a game that we were in desperate need of some ball carrying man beating pace the fact that either Gordon or Cole ‘Coll’ Palmer didn’t come on shows that GS was happy with the draw. The Danes looked delighted at the end.

England rarely get into positions where Palmer and Gordon would have been useful. They, similar to Foden, are also players who don't really do much without the ball. Bit like Foden, they are dependent on someone winning the ball and bringing it to them but thats easier said than done with an underwhelming back line and the somewhat overrated Declan Rice in charge of distribution. A job he isn't good enough to combine with the necessity of being a work horse as well.

 

[Bry Nylon]

BBC carried fairly lengthy footage of the England players emerging from the dressing room and heading down the tunnel for the start of the second half.

Jez, I’ve never seen a bunch of young blokes look like they’d rather be anywhere else. They looked like they had the weight of the world on their shoulders and at that point it was fairly clear how the next 45 would play out.

I never watch football expecting a win - but I do expect a performance and effort. That doesn’t seem unreasonable.

 

[Cordwainer]

England hit new low with dire performance too bad to be boring | Jonathan Liew

Such was the amusing ineptitude on show, it felt like watching a Woolworths 1990s football bloopers video

www.theguardian.com

 

[GJN1]

This is my biggest fear, that we are going to return to the horrific days of 2008-2016 where we either failed to qualify for tournaments or stunk the tournaments out when we were there.

We missed one of those five tournaments.

 

[Han Solo]

BBC carried fairly lengthy footage of the England players emerging from the dressing room and heading down the tunnel for the start of the second half.

Jez, I’ve never seen a bunch of young blokes look like they’d rather be anywhere else. They looked like they had the weight of the world on their shoulders and at that point it was fairly clear how the next 45 would play out.

I never watch football expecting a win - but I do expect a performance and effort. That doesn’t seem unreasonable.

I think people are wrong about the "effort" thing. Most of the players would probably send their grandma to the great farm on the countryside if it guaranteed a win for them (and the weird island they represent).

People easily look "lazy" when they are afraid and don't know what to do.

Will be interesting to see what England could do in the future if they appoint someone who has a masters degree in making people feel cool and confident in crisis/intense situations, because a lot of the England issues are down to psychology.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Yes, he's sat on his hands and made no change from the stinking performance v serbia.

If players are not following his instructions, he's got 5 subs.

His friends in the media are already saying it's not his fault, he's had 8 years to develop a plan/style of play.

What is it?

Totally agree. This hasn't changed since he became manager. His coaching staff are below league 1 standard. Steve Holland, Graeme Jones and Chris Powell along with Southgate have not achieved anything either as players or coaches/managers. That speaks volumes to me. They are so out of touch with the top EPL coaching. Their tactics are that of a L1/2 team.

The sooner he and his men disappear the better.