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[Football] Euros 2024 - Matchday 3



nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,544
Gods country fortnightly
Nonsense. In the knockout stages I think England rarely ever beat top 10 ranked teams. I think they’ve done it once or twice in like 4 decades.
Only ever achieved at Wembley in 1966, 1996 and 2021.

We have to also remember to win a trophy on foreign soil need to win 2 or 3 knockout games in one tournament against top 10 sides.

Its never happened once.
 
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Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
37,327
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
yep , he grew up as a CM so positionally he is fine in theory. In fact he prob knows it better than at RB which he had to learn.

I'd rather him not in there but he is a midfielder , all be it not tried and tested in Englands system
Then why did he spend the second half like a bloke looking for a contact lens?
 




jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
4,898
Considering he was in there as a set piece specialist his free kicks were poor, but it's more his positioning. He got hooked on 69 mins for a proper midfielder because only Rice was doing what he should have been out of the two of them. I'd start Gallagher. Mainoo or Wharton ahead of Trent, despite two of them stinking of the Palace.
Pascal Gross is a set piece specialist, but some of his corners have been woeful recently, doesn't make him crap, not a single player in that Serbia side was under 6ft, set pieces are going to be difficult against a side like that. Like I said he is a good player for playing against a low block in which he was effective for 35 minutes, the only criticism here is maybe he should have been dragged slightly earlier. He isn't there to break up play however, that's Rice's job, to give TAA the opportunity to play, which is where we struggled second half, my criticism is that Southgate didn't realise that slightly sooner and brought on Gallagher around 55-60 mins. My other criticism is that Foden stayed on and we had no real pace to stretch the game late on, but with a right footed LB, its always going to be difficult to run the channels second half, which is where I think the main area that Southgate got the squad selection wrong.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
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Jul 11, 2003
62,630
The Fatherland
I predicted 1-0 Serbia, FGS Jude Bellingham, without wanting to sound like an oracle, this is exactly how I thought Serbia would play and how England would be forced to play.
To avoid any comments about aftertiming, and to enable me time to get to the bookmakers, how do you see the other two games panning out?
 




jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
4,898
I understand we've been fairly successful under Gareth Southgate but you are taking those final positions out of context. We had fairly easy runs in those previous three tournaments but we were defeated once we faced a top side (Croatia, Italy, and France). Many worry, including myself, that this pattern may occur in this tournament - despite having the capability to defeat these sides - partly because of Southgate.
I agree, but you can only play what is in front of you. My criticism of him, is because he fails to adapt against top teams, think he got last night spot on however, thats what I find odd.
 




Herr Tubthumper

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Jul 11, 2003
62,630
The Fatherland




Krafty

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2023
2,065
I agree, but you can only play what is in front of you. My criticism of him, is because he fails to adapt against top teams, think he got last night spot on however, thats what I find odd.
I'm pleased with the result, not so much about the performance. I thought that we made too many mistakes of our own and it felt that the team was disjointed. I worry that if this trend continues, we will get punished by the top sides and knowing our manager I fear that will happen.
 


jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
4,898
I'm pleased with the result, not so much about the performance. I thought that we made too many mistakes of our own and it felt that the team was disjointed. I worry that if this trend continues, we will get punished by the top sides and knowing our manager I fear that will happen.
I think he recovered pretty well from mediocre results at previous tournaments no? 0-0 v Scotland and we beat a good Czech side, then Germany, then a very good Danish side. 0-0 against USA and then we beat Wales (means nothing), then Senegal, then arguably matched France for 90 mins, who only got the win because Kane put a penalty into Orbit.
 






Krafty

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2023
2,065
I think he recovered pretty well from mediocre results at previous tournaments no? 0-0 v Scotland and we beat a good Czech side, then Germany, then a very good Danish side. 0-0 against USA and then we beat Wales (means nothing), then Senegal, then arguably matched France for 90 mins, who only got the win because Kane put a penalty into Orbit.
Agreed, but the majority of the teams that you mention are teams that England would be expected to beat. The only exception would be Germany but, even then, we had the benefit of home advantage. I think Gareth Southgate lacks that "winning mentality" that other managers possess, that is why we were defeated by the top sides of Croatia, Italy, and France in what were all games of fine margins. If Southgate fails again, it feels the appropriate time to change managers because our main objective should be winning a trophy with our incredibly talented squad.
 


jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
4,898
Agreed, but the majority of the teams that you mention are teams that England would be expected to beat. The only exception would be Germany but, even then, we had the benefit of home advantage. I think Gareth Southgate lacks that "winning mentality" that other managers possess, that is why we were defeated by the top sides of Croatia, Italy, and France in what were all games of fine margins. If Southgate fails again, it feels the appropriate time to change managers because our main objective should be winning a trophy with our incredibly talented squad.
I feel like people really overlook that Danish side, as well that Croatia side we beat in 2021, wasn't too dissimilar to the one we lost to in 2018. I agree its time to move Southgate on after this tournament regardless, but who we get is another question. I don't think any top manager will take it due to the media and fan scrutiny, its a poison chalice.
 


Dorset Seagull

Once Dolphin, Now Seagull
Sorry but this is also absolute Garbage. He gave the ball away once. TAA in the first half was the perfect player to play against a low block. To say our midfield was awful is completely ignoring that the two best performers were Rice and Bellingham. If Kane scores and we win 2-0 then not a soul is calling that Garbage. People have a target for Southgate and always have, if Potter becomes manager, he has also won duck all. People act like the entitled top 6 fans they claim to dislike so much with England and it always makes me laugh. I predicted 1-0 Serbia, FGS Jude Bellingham, without wanting to sound like an oracle, this is exactly how I thought Serbia would play and how England would be forced to play. I would genuinely like to see how other people would have managed that game. I don't think any other top manager does it massively any other way.
Have to disagree. We went 1-0 up and were coasting but decided to take our foot off the pedal and drop back into shape. This allowed Serbia to gain momentum and put us under a lot of pressure. At 1-0 we should have continued pushing them back and not allowing them to play so that we could get a second and put the game to bed.
 






Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
32,467
Brighton
Lars Sivertsen made a decent point on Football Weekly - he thought the dropping of intensity was completely intentional from England - it was a risky move from Southgate, but winning meant it paid off.

We have 3 points, are top of the group and have only really exerted ourselves for 30 minutes. That seems like sensible tournament management to me. Would it really be better if we had smashed them 4-2 but knackered ourselves out? Maybe throw an injury in there to Kane also?

No panic. I fully believe we will see a more creative, expansive England against Denmark - their draw means they will have more need to get something from our game.
 


jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
4,898
Have to disagree. We went 1-0 up and were coasting but decided to take our foot off the pedal and drop back into shape. This allowed Serbia to gain momentum and put us under a lot of pressure. At 1-0 we should have continued pushing them back and not allowing them to play so that we could get a second and put the game to bed.
They came out second half and didn't allow us to settle as they were more on the front foot IMO. Think they did well second half, bringing on Tadic gave them a bit more quality and England more to think about, you can't give him much space. Should have brought on Gallagher the moment that sub was made, plus Pavlović really raised his levels second half and had Saka's number.
 


Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
32,467
Brighton
They came out second half and didn't allow us to settle as they were more on the front foot IMO. Think they did well second half, bringing on Tadic gave them a bit more quality and England more to think about, you can't give him much space. Should have brought on Gallagher the moment that sub was made, plus Pavlović really raised his levels second half and had Saka's number.
Yeah Gallagher sub (which I was sure would happen) seemed about 10 minutes too late - that is one slight concern I do have with Southgate, he can take a while on those in-game changes.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,630
The Fatherland
We don't have a good team . . . . . We have good players and a few world class players . . .

Teams win. . .
Nail on the head. England XIs tend to be a collection of the best players often shoehorned into sub-optimal roles to accommodate them with little thought on how them might work together.
 


jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
14,419
England managers get slaughtered for not picking all the “best” players (read: highest reputation) at once, leading to the Lampard/Gerrard problem where we needed one or the other, not both, and a different type of player to partner up with.

It’s how we end up with players out of position, or playing roles they aren’t really suited to, just to facilitate them getting on the team sheet.
 


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