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[Football] Euros 2024 - Matchday 3



BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,427
Eriksen was NOT a top level coach, he was a fraud. Capello was but didn’t give a shit.

The best football I’ve seen England play was under Venables. We should have won it in 96, but a centre back missed a penalty……..
Kind of my point, a top manager isn't a magic wand.

Southgate has worked wonders in terms of improving this team. He deserves support in what is most likely going to be his last tournament.

As ever our expectations are high and our criticism rings loud. I am not sure how much difference the criticism and negativity makes to the players but a bit of positivity surely can't hurt.
 




BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,427
In hindsight, I'm sure a few rugby-loving Aussies would've preferred earlier criticism of Eddie Jones before last year's RWC debacle.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...orld-cup-performance-panel-review-eddie-jones

IMHO it's quite fair to fully support a national team in tournaments whilst being free to criticize the head coach or manager during them.

And it could be argued that it's more patriotic without any unnecessary kid gloves.

England in. Southgate out. He should've gone after Qatar.
I'm not sure how much difference it makes but I would say that in the sporting realm Australia punch well above their weight.

Given the two approaches to tournaments I know which I prefer and which I feel is better for teams/competitors.

Different cultures and different viewpoints though.
 


jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
5,057
Wow that first game was frightening.

Frightening to see how Southgate has had a talented group of players for a few weeks and taken them down a completely useless path to mediocrity.

It really isn't difficult with these players. Play Mainoo in CDM instead on AA in midfield.

Get Foden to play left wing, if he can't do it bring in Gordon. (We should have Grealish or Rashford in the squad to laly that position).

I cannot believe he's had a few weeks with these players and decided that he's not going to play out from the back when pressed and still win this tournament. Is his game plan really when pressed pump the ball from Pickford to Kane!! He is a complete imbecile.
I saw a solid 1-0 win, which we were defensively astute, against a decent Serbian side, we won the game. Our best opportunities came out of Kane holding the ball up. Whats the point of putting Gordon on the run on the left wing, when you’ve got a right footed LB, who needs to cut inside every time. The obvious sub was Palmer for Foden, and TAA was arguably one of our best players first half. Serbia never looked like scoring except from a long range shot from Vlahovic. People’s expectations are far too high, I understand why people call it the impossible job, when people call Southgate an imbecile for winning games at tournaments, something that a lot of England managers this century found very difficult to do.
 


Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,710
Eriksen was NOT a top level coach, he was a fraud. Capello was but didn’t give a shit.

The best football I’ve seen England play was under Venables. We should have won it in 96, but a centre back missed a penalty……..
I need to watch back Euro 96 again. I have a feeling we all look back with rose tinted glasses.

We stank out the first match vs Swiss.

Second match we were winning vs Scotland but they were killing us and missed that pen just before Gazza’s goal.

The Dutch game was phenomenal. No two ways about it.

Spain we were pretty poor weren’t we ? In fact they had a perfectly good goal ruled out if I recall correctly. In the first half, I think.

We were better side vs Germans.

I am not sure the football was that all exciting.

The most exciting one off match was surely winning 5-1 in Germany. What a display.
 


One Love

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2011
4,499
Brighton
I saw a solid 1-0 win, which we were defensively astute, against a decent Serbian side, we won the game. Our best opportunities came out of Kane holding the ball up. Whats the point of putting Gordon on the run on the left wing, when you’ve got a right footed LB, who needs to cut inside every time. The obvious sub was Palmer for Foden, and TAA was arguably one of our best players first half. Serbia never looked like scoring except from a long range shot from Vlahovic. People’s expectations are far too high, I understand why people call it the impossible job, when people call Southgate an imbecile for winning games at tournaments, something that a lot of England managers this century found very difficult to do.
So how far do you think we will go in this tournament if when pressed Pickford just pumps the ball aimlessly up field?

I could not believe what I was watching. I can't believe you are happy with that as a Brighton fan.
 




kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,885
Is he?

I thought that till the last year, as you mentioned he's made foden look like Harry Winks, fallen out with Ben white and I don't see too many busting a gut for him.
I think he fell out with Dunk too - that was why he was inexplicably out of the squad for so long.
 


hart's shirt

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
11,162
Kitbag in Dubai
I'm not sure how much difference it makes but I would say that in the sporting realm Australia punch well above their weight.

Given the two approaches to tournaments I know which I prefer and which I feel is better for teams/competitors.

Different cultures and different viewpoints though.
Wouldn't disagree. However the RWC was a failure judged on Australia's very high levels of success. Wise after the event is too late.

Fair enough, but whether or not a carte blanche 'we'll support him whatever' approach results in more success is open to question.

The Ausssie/Kiwi Tall Poppy Syndrome possibly fosters team/squad collectivity at the expense of individualistic success.

As you rightly say, different cultures and viewpoints. Both have their place.

For me, I'll fully back the team and hope for success whilst simultaneously look forward to Southgate's departure that might hasten it.
 
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herecomesaregular

We're in the pipe, 5 by 5
Oct 27, 2008
4,672
Still in Brighton
I need to watch back Euro 96 again. I have a feeling we all look back with rose tinted glasses.

We stank out the first match vs Swiss.

Second match we were winning vs Scotland but they were killing us and missed that pen just before Gazza’s goal.

The Dutch game was phenomenal. No two ways about it.

Spain we were pretty poor weren’t we ? In fact they had a perfectly good goal ruled out if I recall correctly. In the first half, I think.

We were better side vs Germans.

I am not sure the football was that all exciting.

The most exciting one off match was surely winning 5-1 in Germany. What a display.
True dat.
 




jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
5,057
So how far do you think we will go in this tournament if when pressed Pickford just pumps the ball aimlessly up field?

I could not believe what I was watching. I can't believe you are happy with that as a Brighton fan.
Pickford doesn’t pump it aimlessly though? Against other teams we’ll play differently, towards the end of the season, playing out got us absolutely nowhere and sometimes you need to go direct. Gallagher made us better in midfield when he came on, and a bit more robust. Kane‘s hold up play was superb at times, the person losing the ball the most in the second half were Saka and Foden when we tried playing through them. I watch football to watch us win games, which we did and Ive seen us playing like that multiple times this season. I think you expectations are far too high, we are simply not going to win every game 3-0 without a worry in the world. Serbia have some very decent players and tried to do a job on us at the back. Kane scores the header and we win 2-0 and none of this happens. I think people moan about Southgate for the sake of it, or because they can’t with their club team. When we beat Villa 1-0, Forest 1-0 and AEK 1-0, under the cosh for large spells, I didn’t leave thinking wow how crap, RDZ is an imbecile, I think on a below par night we managed to grind out a result, which is what you need to do in the group stage. No good winning 6-0 against Serbia, if it means absolutely nothing.
 


kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,885
Best England performance I remember was the Germany semi-final in the 1990 World Cup. We were superb in that game, but people forget how Bobby Robson was utterly crucified in the press before the tournament. Worst England manager has to be Graham Taylor.

I want to get behind Southgate but I just find the football we play so turgid, especially given the talent at his disposal. I really hope Potter gets the job.
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
18,427
Wouldn't disagree. However the RWC was a failure judged on Australia's very high levels of success. Wise after the event is too late.

Fair enough, but whether or not a carte blanche 'we'll support him whatever' approach results in more success is open to question.

The Ausssie/Kiwi Tall Poppy Syndrome possibly fosters team/squad collectivity at the expense of individualistic success.

As you rightly say, different cultures and viewpoints. Both have their place.

For me, I'll fully back the team and hope for success whilst simultaneously look forward to Southgate's departure that might hasten it.
I agree with your points, especially the last. I assume this will be Southgates last tournament and it will be interesting to see who is next and what they do with this set of brilliant players. I believe we also have to acknowledge the great work Southgate has done with the England team.

Right now though I see no benefit in harping on about his shortcomings (all managers have them - even Capello)
Let's get behind him and the team and see where it takes us.

I intend to enjoy it even if/when we don't win it.
 




jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
5,057
Best England performance I remember was the Germany semi-final in the 1990 World Cup. We were superb in that game, but people forget how Bobby Robson was utterly crucified in the press before the tournament. Worst England manager has to be Graham Taylor.

I want to get behind Southgate but I just find the football we play so turgid, especially given the talent at his disposal. I really hope Potter gets the job.
I think you will be disappointed because I think Southgate plays the exact same football as potter.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
56,719
Faversham
So how far do you think we will go in this tournament if when pressed Pickford just pumps the ball aimlessly up field?

I could not believe what I was watching. I can't believe you are happy with that as a Brighton fan.
It wasn't clever football, for sure.

I was going to add 'but' but that is probably sufficient.
 


Justice

Dangerous Idiot
Jun 21, 2012
21,128
Born In Shoreham
Best England performance I remember was the Germany semi-final in the 1990 World Cup. We were superb in that game, but people forget how Bobby Robson was utterly crucified in the press before the tournament. Worst England manager has to be Graham Taylor.

I want to get behind Southgate but I just find the football we play so turgid, especially given the talent at his disposal. I really hope Potter gets the job.
How many times a year does an international group get together? You can’t get to intricate tactically. Every job Potter is lined up for some Brighton fans first line is I hope they give him time, you don’t get time in international football. Fail to qualify for a tournament and he will be on the back page of the red tops with donkey ears.
It’s nothing like club football you simply can’t afford to lose six in a row and have a very patient owner still backing you.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
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Jul 11, 2003
63,043
The Fatherland
I'm not so sure. We turn up against the big boys and we have the quality to beat anyone.
Nonsense. In the knockout stages I think England rarely ever beat top 10 ranked teams. I think they’ve done it once or twice in like 4 decades.
 


Herr Tubthumper

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Jul 11, 2003
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The Fatherland
I saw a solid 1-0 win, which we were defensively astute, against a decent Serbian side, we won the game. Our best opportunities came out of Kane holding the ball up. Whats the point of putting Gordon on the run on the left wing, when you’ve got a right footed LB, who needs to cut inside every time. The obvious sub was Palmer for Foden, and TAA was arguably one of our best players first half. Serbia never looked like scoring except from a long range shot from Vlahovic. People’s expectations are far too high, I understand why people call it the impossible job, when people call Southgate an imbecile for winning games at tournaments, something that a lot of England managers this century found very difficult to do.
Crikey. Football truly is a game of different opinions.
 


Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
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Jul 16, 2003
58,809
hassocks
As proven by our performances with the golden generation under Eriksen and then Capello.

Not to mention our tournament wins under Robson, Venebles and Hoddle.

A top coach makes all the difference.
This squad is better than the golden generation, that group of players gets slated, but the current squad is miles better.

For no other reason than it's the first game to mind - the 2006 World Cup loss under Sven to Portugal, the bench was:

Lennon, Campbell, James, Bridge, Jenas, Carrick, Downing, Carson, Walcott, Crouch, Carragher.

Compare that to the options Southgate has, how many would you take over the players on the bench last night? Campbell/Carrick would be about it for me.

That is not even including the players we left behind in Braithwaite/Maddison/Grealish/Rashford etc etc
 
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Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
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Jul 11, 2003
63,043
The Fatherland
How many times a year does an international group get together? You can’t get to intricate tactically. Every job Potter is lined up for some Brighton fans first line is I hope they give him time, you don’t get time in international football. Fail to qualify for a tournament and he will be on the back page of the red tops with donkey ears.
It’s nothing like club football you simply can’t afford to lose six in a row and have a very patient owner still backing you.
But Potter wouldn’t need as much time to either coach, or buy, players to fit the way he wants to play. At the international level you can just choose them. And he’ll have higher quality players who by this definition can adapt quicker to his system. In short I don’t buy the time argument.
 




Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
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Jul 16, 2003
58,809
hassocks
Ben White is weird. I'm not reading anything into that. Foden was ok at the beginning but looked ragged after half time.

Not sure that's fair about them not busting a gut as they all look happy, and we were finalists last time and have consistently performed better than usual. You think of Capello in 2010 or the Iceland debacle under Hodgson, or SGE's constant failure to get us beyond the quarters despite being paid silly money. Southgate's record sort of stands up. It's just that his in-game management is league one standard.
Fairs, Im just seeing similarities to the last few months of Conte when he lost the changing room, starting 11 seem happy enough, but the squad doesn't seem overly happy.

I've just mentioned about this squad being better than anything Sven/Capello had, which is the frustrating part.
 


Herr Tubthumper

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Jul 11, 2003
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I saw a solid 1-0 win, which we were defensively astute, against a decent Serbian side, we won the game. Our best opportunities came out of Kane holding the ball up. Whats the point of putting Gordon on the run on the left wing, when you’ve got a right footed LB, who needs to cut inside every time. The obvious sub was Palmer for Foden, and TAA was arguably one of our best players first half. Serbia never looked like scoring except from a long range shot from Vlahovic. People’s expectations are far too high, I understand why people call it the impossible job, when people call Southgate an imbecile for winning games at tournaments, something that a lot of England managers this century found very difficult to do.
England made a bunch of mistakes at the back and Pickford just pumps the ball upfield when under the slightest pressure, that was not defensively astute. The only thing which prevented an, at best very average Serbian team, scoring was their woeful ability in the final third. Anyone half decent and England would have been taken apart last night. I know you can only beat what’s put in front of you but England hardly put down a marker for the tournament like some other nations have. In fact I’d actually say the exact opposite, they gave Denmark and Slovenia hope. Thankfully, due to this new crap format, you probably only need one win to go through.
 


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