Europe: In or Out

[The Rivet]

You are naughty Tubby!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You can take a virtual tour of the non existent European Space Agency here

http://www.eyerevolution.co.uk/tours/european-space-agency/

quite interesting all be it totally imaginary.

FFS. Are you humouring me or just being stupid?

 

[Soulman]

Did you enjoy your tour of your non existent European Space Agency
http://www.eyerevolution.co.uk/tours/european-space-agency/

 

[The Rivet]

FFS. Are you humouring me or just being stupid?

Funny, I read it like an insult but I am sure I am wrong.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Did you enjoy your tour of your non existent European Space Agency
http://www.eyerevolution.co.uk/tours/european-space-agency/

The ESA is a completely separate body/entity to the EU. It gets some funding but this is all. Just because something has European in its title it doesn't mean it's a division of the EU. Your argument is like saying the European Cup is the EU Cup.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Did you enjoy your tour of your non existent European Space Agency
http://www.eyerevolution.co.uk/tours/european-space-agency/

I did, could not see which part of the EU it reports into though. Maybe you can advise?

 

[The Rivet]

The ESA is a completely separate body/entity to the EU. It gets some funding but this is all. Just because something has European in its title it doesn't mean it's a division of the EU. Your argument is like saying the European Cup is the EU Cup.

One word. Weak.

 

[brighton fella]

No one is suggesting they would all have to pack their bags and leave - forgive me but the primary reason that people want to leave the EU is too much immigration, therefore many will have to pack their bags and leave if you follow this desire through. Otherwise what was the point of voting to leave the EU if there is no change in the numbers and we allow as many in as are here already?

where did i say that we should let any more in ? i simply said pull up the drawbridge and stop mass immigration. . .

what i also said was that these polish bods etc that are already over here are not all going to be made to jump ship and sent packing, i wouldn't have thought a policy like that would get approval. .

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

One word. Weak.

If you're going to argue black is white I know you're humouring me. I'll step aside.

 

[The Rivet]

Austria, Belgium, Czech Rep, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland & United Kingdom. They are the credited 'owners' of the 'non' existent ESA Just so all those casual viewers can recognise that.

 

[Soulman]

The ESA is a completely separate body/entity to the EU. It gets some funding but this is all. Just because something has European in its title it doesn't mean it's a division of the EU. Your argument is like saying the European Cup is the EU Cup.

Keep wriggling.

 

[The Rivet]

If you're going to argue black is white I know you're humouring me. I'll step aside.

I'm not humouring you, neither am I arguing black is white. I stepped aside last night and it's a rightful prerogative we all possess so fair play.

 

[Soulman]

Austria, Belgium, Czech Rep, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland & United Kingdom. They are the credited 'owners' of the 'non' existent ESA Just so all those casual viewers can recognise that.

Glad you posted that, at least it proves it is not non existent in Germany as well......

 

[cunning fergus]

They don't have anything to do with an EU Space Agency as it doesn't exist, never has done. It's just more nonsense you've probably picked from the Internet to go with the ever growing list of rubbish you spout on here. From memory your arguments about Ford Motors, Pharmacoeconomics, budget deficits (or do you mean supplus ) VAT have all crumbled quite quickly. I do have a different tale about Silvertown sugar refinery to the one you told/cut-and-pasted-from-the-net as well....but I'll keep that for another evening.

You are out on a limb here my son................

http://www.esa.int/About_Us/Welcome_to_ESA/ESA_and_the_EU

The EU (via the unelected Commission) and ESA have been in partnership since 2004, the EU are the biggest funders, (that's money from EU taxpayers), plus then national states also fund the ESA so EU taxpayers get stung twice.

I will put this aberation down to an extra Augusteiner..................y'know one of the stronger summer brews.

Best you get your head down now and let the adults continue with the debate.

Chin chin.

 

[cunning fergus]

Austria, Belgium, Czech Rep, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland & United Kingdom. They are the credited 'owners' of the 'non' existent ESA Just so all those casual viewers can recognise that.

So, back to my original point, all these EU states are applying sanctions on Russia.

So how is it that we have sanctions (essentially a trade war with Russia), yet the EU is willing to engage in space exploration with Russia.

No I am assumong the Russians didnt let Tim Peake go for a ride on their boat to space for gratis?

Where is the sense of this policy................are we (the EU) against Russia or not?

Answers on a spaceship please?

 

[pastafarian]

FFS.

FFS indeed

shall i bother asking you again if you feel the EU needs reforming (and which parts if applicable) or is it perfect?

or would you prefer not to answer?

 

[The Rivet]

So, back to my original point, all these EU states are applying sanctions on Russia.

So how is it that we have sanctions (essentially a trade war with Russia), yet the EU is willing to engage in space exploration with Russia.

No I am assumong the Russians didnt let Tim Peake go for a ride on their boat to space for gratis?

Where is the sense of this policy................are we (the EU) against Russia or not?

Answers on a spaceship please?

Sorry the Esa mini debate wasn't about you or your point. No offense. However on review I see the relevance. Sorry

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I never said immediate disintegration of a sanctions regime or an energy policy. I am talking about weakening an organisation that is already battered and bruised. A sanctions programme, which harms some states (Greece) more than others (Portugal) requires political will. Brexit will damage the standing of the EU and its political authority. This in turn weakens the ability to push through tough measures. If Russia can unpick the threads of European unity it can begin to dismantle pan-European policy. For example Greece has cosied up to Russia hoping for economic relief in exchange for Greece delaying the ratification of EU sanctions against Russia related to Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. A weaker Europe is a stronger Russia.

On the periphery this will have longer-term consequences. For example the European accession process in Serbia will be delayed and it will instead look for aid from Russia. A stronger Europe can be more coherent on these issues and look forward rather than fighting a constant rear-guard action. Moldova is another country that needs European help to implement reforms, a distracted Europe has not been able to deliver the technical support to ensure these reforms are successful. This pulls Moldova back into the Russian orbit as people become dissatisfied with the failure of pro-Western parties.

Like with all policy our approach can be amplified through Europe. As a country with frozen relations with Russia us leaving weakens a pro-sanctions policy - there are plenty of Russophiles (Schroeder et al. ) in Germany who will try to shift the wider European debate.

In terms of significant concessions let's remember that as a starting point we have a lot of concessions and special treatment already: no commitment to joining the Euro, no Schengen, justice opt-outs, the rebate. Now we are asking for more. It is not just the Commission we have to convince but the other member-states - obviously Poland is going to be tougher to convince than the Netherlands. It is about compromise and on that score I think Cameron has done fine.

Brexit doesn't change the dynamic of sanctions on the Russians or energy policy no matter how you choose to spin it. You do however identify real self inflicted weaknesses within the EU which the Russians could exploit. A theoretical Brexit will be settled in the next few months and the future negotiations will be a walk in the park compared to the ongoing Eurozone crisis and migrant crisis. Perhaps the EU should concentrate on finding solutions to these problems to strengthen it's overall position. If it can it remains relatively strong if it can't (more likely) well the whole project is doomed so best we are out. You continually ignore the point that we would still stand along side our European Allies where necessary and the combined political will would remain the same. The only time this would not be the case is when the UK chose to go in a different direction an option not available while we are in the EU. For you the EU amplifies our voice I would say the EU dilutes and drowns out our voice.

We can discuss Cameron's fine reform package when it is finalised and speculate what it will look like after the European parliament has finished with it.

 

[brighton fella]

gone very quiet, cant hear much coming from the inners,

probably in bed knocking one out over martin shulz. ?.

 

[The Rivet]

Keep wriggling.

I am having horrible thoughts, Did I just see what amounted to a pack of factual piranha savaging someone?