Europe: In or Out

[Herr Tubthumper]

they have a view maybe it would be a good idea to express it. however that wasnt the point, it was that suggesting England should have a say in Scotland future is arrogant, when it is a fact and defining part of a union. thats why Scotland nationalist want to leave, and many in England may have a view that supports them. this problem is a small scale version of the core problem of EU, which we'll see in the coming decade as people realise its not such a great project.

I don't think it's England's position to have a say. Like any relationship, you encourage the other party if you want it to work; you don't get all authoritarian with them.

 

[The Clamp]

Yes. But if you're holding a referendum to exit a union you clearly can't involve the other party/parties. Would you expect the 27 other EU member states to vote in the forth coming UK referendum?

We should have a say because we rule Scotland.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Anyway, it's a reasonably nice European Sunday afternoon so I'm stepping out to see my brothers and sisters. Späters everyone.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We should have a say because we rule Scotland.

Is there a banging-my-head-against-a-wall emoji?

 

[Gregory2Smith1]

if only de Gaulle had lived a bit longer we might never have joined

I think Britain would be a better place to live now if we hadn't joined

 

[daveybgtt]

Me to yurop and the poors. stay out we are full ahahahahaha

*watched house price increase daily*

 

[JC Footy Genius]

.... Like any relationship, you encourage the other party if you want it to work; you don't get all authoritarian with them.

Bit like Germany/EU and Greece ? Poor old Greece has already been bullied terribly and now there's talk of fencing them off to stop the flow of migrants after Germany encouraged millions to come here. Meanwhile numerous EU members are being pressured into taking quotas of migrants against their and their electorates wishes ... one big happy, democratic EU family.

 

[sir albion]

Bit like Germany/EU and Greece ? Poor old Greece has already been bullied terribly and now there's talk of fencing them off to stop the flow of migrants after Germany encouraged millions to come here. Meanwhile numerous EU members are being pressured into taking quotas of migrants against their and their electorates wishes ... one big happy, democratic EU family.

And yet the so called EU ********s contribute peanuts to these issues and leave the countries to deal with it.You do wonder where the billions and billions go that they reel in from EU countries bar bailouts.

It will never ever work

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Bit like Germany/EU and Greece ? Poor old Greece has already been bullied terribly and now there's talk of fencing them off to stop the flow of migrants after Germany encouraged millions to come here. Meanwhile numerous EU members are being pressured into taking quotas of migrants against their and their electorates wishes ... one big happy, democratic EU family.

Greece, bullied? Correct me if I'm wrong here but they voted in a pro-EU government to strike a deal with the EU. The government struck a deal, had a referendum, concluded the deal then stood aside and let the people speak a third time. They were voted back in. How much more democratic can you get? And how much more convincing do you need that the Greeks struck a deal the nation was happy with? It's not really for me or you to comment on the deal; they were happy with it which is all that matters. in their hour of need the EU was there for them.

 

[Hampster Gull]

The euro was a construct for german dominance over europe and succeeded very well. The greeks have suffered enormously snd not too many Merkel fans over there

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The euro was a construct for german dominance over europe and succeeded very well. The greeks have suffered enormously snd not too many Merkel fans over there

Yet, as I have pointed out, they repeatedly voted for a pro-EU government. Do you know something their voters don't? A lot of posters seem to know not only what's best for the Scots but now the Greeks.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

And yet the so called EU ********s contribute peanuts to these issues and leave the countries to deal with it.You do wonder where the billions and billions go that they reel in from EU countries bar bailouts.

It will never ever work

Quite right. Individual Nation states are acting unilaterally trying desperately to cope with the horrendous mess while the EU fails to secure its external borders or set up any vetting procedure to adequately process the migrants. So much for better together collective action.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Greece, bullied? Correct me if I'm wrong here but they voted in a pro-EU government to strike a deal with the EU. The government struck a deal, had a referendum, concluded the deal then stood aside and let the people speak a third time. They were voted back in. How much more democratic can you get? And how much more convincing do you need that the Greeks struck a deal the nation was happy with? It's not really for me or you to comment on the deal; they were happy with it which is all that matters. in their hour of need the EU was there for them.

Socialist comradeship alive and well I see.

The Greek people voted in a far left wing Anti Austerity government (sound familiar). That government after much 'negotiation' were told to accept ongoing Austerity, tax increases, privatise utilities or we will cut off credit. The then Greek finance minister stated this was contrary to the wishes of the people who voted 61% against austerity in the first referendum he also talked of being blackmailed.

Greece was then faced with a choice of voting to accept the terms or default on your debts/economic collapse/Grexit.

Democracy at the point of a gun.

As you say I'm sure they were happy with ..

Unemployment rate of 25%,
Youth unemployment near 50%,
Greeks 40% poorer,
poverty rates through the roof,
suicide rates up 35%

.. and thank their lucky stars that the wonderful EU was there for them in their hour of need.

But you know all this you're probably just pulling my chain.

 

[The Clamp]

I see masked men are now attacking migrants across Europe.

 

[osgood]

for the record . i wouldve voted NO, and still will come the referendum , and again in the 2nd referendum , when we are asked to vote again , after we have returned an unpopular (with the EU) , NO vote ,
The EU will also be able to spend lots of (our) money to ensure that we vote YES ,this will happen !

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Socialist comradeship alive and well I see.

The Greek people voted in a far left wing Anti Austerity government (sound familiar). That government after much 'negotiation' were told to accept ongoing Austerity, tax increases, privatise utilities or we will cut off credit. The then Greek finance minister stated this was contrary to the wishes of the people who voted 61% against austerity in the first referendum he also talked of being blackmailed.

Greece was then faced with a choice of voting to accept the terms or default on your debts/economic collapse/Grexit.

Democracy at the point of a gun.

As you say I'm sure they were happy with ..

Unemployment rate of 25%,
Youth unemployment near 50%,
Greeks 40% poorer,
poverty rates through the roof,
suicide rates up 35%

.. and thank their lucky stars that the wonderful EU was there for them in their hour of need.

But you know all this you're probably just pulling my chain.

Frame it in your anti-EU agenda as much as you like the Greek's had three votes on a Grexit and decided to stay put. They had a clear choice of stay on mutually agreed terms, or go. Your I-know-better-than-the-people-of-Scotland-and-Greece arrogance is breathtaking. Will you still be whining if (when) the UK have democratically decided to stay put?

 

[Hampster Gull]

Yet, as I have pointed out, they repeatedly voted for a pro-EU government. Do you know something their voters don't? A lot of posters seem to know not only what's best for the Scots but now the Greeks.

The Scots voted to stay in the UK also

 

[Hampster Gull]

Socialist comradeship alive and well I see.

The Greek people voted in a far left wing Anti Austerity government (sound familiar). That government after much 'negotiation' were told to accept ongoing Austerity, tax increases, privatise utilities or we will cut off credit. The then Greek finance minister stated this was contrary to the wishes of the people who voted 61% against austerity in the first referendum he also talked of being blackmailed.

Greece was then faced with a choice of voting to accept the terms or default on your debts/economic collapse/Grexit.

Democracy at the point of a gun.

As you say I'm sure they were happy with ..

Unemployment rate of 25%,
Youth unemployment near 50%,
Greeks 40% poorer,
poverty rates through the roof,
suicide rates up 35%

.. and thank their lucky stars that the wonderful EU was there for them in their hour of need.

But you know all this you're probably just pulling my chain.

The Greeks did vote to stay but agree with a gun to their head. Even the Germans had their debt written off post war. One rule for one...

 

[yxee]

The Greeks did vote to stay but agree with a gun to their head. Even the Germans had their debt written off post war. One rule for one...

Surely it is the lender who has the right to decide whether to write the debt off?

There is no "rule"

 

[Hampster Gull]

Surely it is the lender who has the right to decide whether to write the debt off?

There is no "rule"

Of course. The borrower, Germany, took the generosity in the hour of their need but didnt extend it when they were the lender. One rule for ome.. And its a saying.....