[Albion] Europa League Round of 16 tickets on sale

[Tooting Gull]

And how would you change it? The system is not perfect but from what we can tell it's one of the better ones. It is possible to work your way up through the tiers but generally it seems those that complain don't want to put the effort in but expect to have access to the best games. That said, I believe many of the top games still go down through many tiers before being sold out.

A very easy change here - and we're talking about Albion Plus specifically because all STHs were effectively guaranteed a ticket - would have been to have better and more cut offs, eg 200, 100, 0. Easy and fairer because a lot of fans are between 1 and 188 points.

 

[Simster]

And how would you change it? The system is not perfect but from what we can tell it's one of the better ones. It is possible to work your way up through the tiers but generally it seems those that complain don't want to put the effort in but expect to have access to the best games. That said, I believe many of the top games still go down through many tiers before being sold out.

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll answer your question and then I'm out (as there are better threads for this discussion).

Personally, I'd make it several ballots. Let's assume we have an allocation of 3,000 somewhere, I'd do something like this:

1,000 open to a ballot for people with points that cuts off the 3,000 highest points scorers
Two days later:
1,000 open to a ballot for people with points that cuts off the 6,000 highest points scorers
Two days later:
1,000 open to everyone else

So if you feature in the top 3,000 points scorers, you get 3 chances as there are 3 ballots to which you are entered.
If you feature in the top 6,000 points scorers, you get 2 chances as there are 2 ballots to which you are entered.

The benefit of this as I see it is that those further down the pecking order still get a small chance of a ticket, while the regulars still get a much higher chance than most (albeit not guaranteed). It fixes the problem of it being a closed shop. Ultimately we're all fans. It doesn't feel right to me that just because you're wealthy enough to be able to go to all games and happen to be "current" at what is the most successful time in the club's history, that you should be absolutely guaranteed a ticket every time you want one, while others who did the hard yards over several lean years but don't go every week anymore are just ignored.

 

[nicko31]

The "closed shop" thing is demonstrably false.

There are plenty of people who have worked their way up and now have the pick of tickets. It takes a commitment of both time and money, often putting in the hard yards of going to the less glamorous games, then picking up "big game" tickets when your first get a tier 2/3 sniff and continuing to build from there.

And the steps the club introduced to make it difficult/risky to pass on away tickets was also a great help as most won't take the chance of passing on tickets to boost their own points position.

Loyalty is rewarded, anyone who has been an Albion+ member since the start of the Amex era and been to a few games a season can pretty much go to any game outside of London away days.

Some clubs like Arsenal encourage mass membership then ballot every game, hardly a way to look after your supporters

 

[drew]

A very easy change here - and we're talking about Albion Plus specifically because all STHs were effectively guaranteed a ticket - would have been to have better and more cut offs, eg 200, 100, 0. Easy and fairer because a lot of fans are between 1 and 188 points.

I assumed Simster was referring to the scheme in general rather than just the europa sale.

 

[drew]

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll answer your question and then I'm out (as there are better threads for this discussion).

Personally, I'd make it several ballots. Let's assume we have an allocation of 3,000 somewhere, I'd do something like this:

1,000 open to a ballot for people with points that cuts off the 3,000 highest points scorers
Two days later:
1,000 open to a ballot for people with points that cuts off the 6,000 highest points scorers
Two days later:
1,000 open to everyone else

So if you feature in the top 3,000 points scorers, you get 3 chances as there are 3 ballots to which you are entered.
If you feature in the top 6,000 points scorers, you get 2 chances as there are 2 ballots to which you are entered.

The benefit of this as I see it is that those further down the pecking order still get a small chance of a ticket, while the regulars still get a much higher chance than most (albeit not guaranteed). It fixes the problem of it being a closed shop. Ultimately we're all fans. It doesn't feel right to me that just because you're wealthy enough to be able to go to all games and happen to be "current" at what is the most successful time in the club's history, that you should be absolutely guaranteed a ticket every time you want one, while others who did the hard yards over several lean years but don't go every week anymore are just ignored.

I see you've cut and run but just in case, as others have said, it isn't a closed shop and that is the flaw in your proposal.

 

[London Irish]

Ah wondered why there was a queue

 

[Simster]

The "closed shop" thing is demonstrably false.

There are plenty of people who have worked their way up and now have the pick of tickets. It takes a commitment of both time and money, often putting in the hard yards of going to the less glamorous games, then picking up "big game" tickets when your first get a tier 2/3 sniff and continuing to build from there.

And the steps the club introduced to make it difficult/risky to pass on away tickets was also a great help as most won't take the chance of passing on tickets to boost their own points position.

If you want to argue the "closed shop thing is demonstrably false", then that's up to you, but I'm not convinced at all. Let's just agree that it's not entirely sealed, but the seepage takes at least two full seasons.

There are people who have followed this club, been STHs at 3 different grounds prior to the Amex and have now given up being one at the Amex owing to ill health. It can't be right that they have no chance of a Dublin ticket if we somehow got there.

I see you've cut and run but just in case, as others have said, it isn't a closed shop and that is the flaw in your proposal.

Even if it isn't a closed shop but merely a shop with rubber seals that take 2 years to penetrate, that is absolutely not a flaw in my proposal. Unless you care to explain it to me?

 

[Beach Hut]

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll answer your question and then I'm out (as there are better threads for this discussion).

Personally, I'd make it several ballots. Let's assume we have an allocation of 3,000 somewhere, I'd do something like this:

1,000 open to a ballot for people with points that cuts off the 3,000 highest points scorers
Two days later:
1,000 open to a ballot for people with points that cuts off the 6,000 highest points scorers
Two days later:
1,000 open to everyone else

So if you feature in the top 3,000 points scorers, you get 3 chances as there are 3 ballots to which you are entered.
If you feature in the top 6,000 points scorers, you get 2 chances as there are 2 ballots to which you are entered.

The benefit of this as I see it is that those further down the pecking order still get a small chance of a ticket, while the regulars still get a much higher chance than most (albeit not guaranteed). It fixes the problem of it being a closed shop. Ultimately we're all fans. It doesn't feel right to me that just because you're wealthy enough to be able to go to all games and happen to be "current" at what is the most successful time in the club's history, that you should be absolutely guaranteed a ticket every time you want one, while others who did the hard yards over several lean years but don't go every week anymore are just ignored.

I think that is clearly an agenda to suit just you, season ticket points is the correct way to reward loyalty

 

[drew]

If you want to argue the "closed shop thing is demonstrably false", then that's up to you, but I'm not convinced at all. Let's just agree that it's not entirely sealed, but the seepage takes at least two full seasons.

There are people who have followed this club, been STHs at 3 different grounds prior to the Amex and have now given up being one at the Amex owing to ill health. It can't be right that they have no chance of a Dublin ticket if we somehow got there.


Even if it isn't a closed shop but merely a shop with rubber seals that take 2 years to penetrate, that is absolutely not a flaw in my proposal. Unless you care to explain it to me?

Well if you chose not to go or are unable to go, why is it right you should have priority over those that do.

 

[Simster]

I think that is clearly an agenda to suit just you, season ticket points is the correct way to reward loyalty

I do of course see it differently from a modern day STH, because that's not me. I go from time to time. I'd go every week and be a STH if any of my immediate family was remotely interested, but they're not.

Regardless, I don't really think you're in any position to lecture others about agendas over ticket availability. Some of us remember you whining like a bitch because you didn't get a West Ham away ticket back in the day. It was embarrassing.

 

[Simster]

Well if you chose not to go or are unable to go, why is it right you should have priority over those that do.

Have you actually read any of what I wrote? Because at no point am I saying that.

 

[Beach Hut]

I do of course see it differently from a modern day STH, because that's not me. I go from time to time. I'd go every week and be a STH if any of my immediate family was remotely interested, but they're not.

Regardless, I don't really think you're in any position to lecture others about agendas over ticket availability. Some of us remember you whining like a bitch because you didn't get a West Ham away ticket back in the day. It was embarrassing.

That resulted ultimately in changing that pathetic AMS scheme into a system that rewarded those that go.

It wasn't embarrassing, the system changed ultimately to reward those that attend on a regular basis, what's not to like apart from it does't meet you criteria

 

[PeterT]

My opinion, for what it’s worth. I am a lapsed season ticket holder, due mainly to health reasons at the time, but a member and still a regular attendee with 240+ points. However I fully get that it puts me behind season ticket holders in any queue for scarce tickets.

I do believe that having just 2 thresholds for member tickets could be improved upon, however, especially when there is significant time between the sale dates and the game itself. It didn’t make any difference to me, but I’m sure it would have done to plenty of others.

 

[Wozza]

Nothing to add, except I like the word "demonstrably".

As you were.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll answer your question and then I'm out (as there are better threads for this discussion).

Personally, I'd make it several ballots. Let's assume we have an allocation of 3,000 somewhere, I'd do something like this:

1,000 open to a ballot for people with points that cuts off the 3,000 highest points scorers
Two days later:
1,000 open to a ballot for people with points that cuts off the 6,000 highest points scorers
Two days later:
1,000 open to everyone else

So if you feature in the top 3,000 points scorers, you get 3 chances as there are 3 ballots to which you are entered.
If you feature in the top 6,000 points scorers, you get 2 chances as there are 2 ballots to which you are entered.

The benefit of this as I see it is that those further down the pecking order still get a small chance of a ticket, while the regulars still get a much higher chance than most (albeit not guaranteed). It fixes the problem of it being a closed shop. Ultimately we're all fans. It doesn't feel right to me that just because you're wealthy enough to be able to go to all games and happen to be "current" at what is the most successful time in the club's history, that you should be absolutely guaranteed a ticket every time you want one, while others who did the hard yards over several lean years but don't go every week anymore are just ignored.

Sorry, but fundamentally disagree.

Someone who has been to EVERY game, home and away for several seasons, goes into a ballot and could miss out to someone who just fancies popping along to a big game?

Madness.

 

[Simster]

That resulted ultimately in changing that pathetic AMS scheme into a system that rewarded those that go.

It wasn't embarrassing, the system changed ultimately to reward those that attend on a regular basis, what's not to like apart from it does't meet you criteria

No, the change wasn't embarrassing. Your conduct was embarrassing.

I've already given the reasons why I don't like the current system. It disregards everybody who isn't a current STH; that's those who are unable to be a STH or get to many games for whatever reason. I'm not even saying that current regular attendees shouldn't get preferential treatment. They should. I just believe there needs to be a balance that doesn't disaffect those who don't fall into that category.

 

[amexer]

I did not attend the group games and was a little suprised was able to get first choice on my seat for the last 16 game.

 

[jackalbion]

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll answer your question and then I'm out (as there are better threads for this discussion).

Personally, I'd make it several ballots. Let's assume we have an allocation of 3,000 somewhere, I'd do something like this:

1,000 open to a ballot for people with points that cuts off the 3,000 highest points scorers
Two days later:
1,000 open to a ballot for people with points that cuts off the 6,000 highest points scorers
Two days later:
1,000 open to everyone else

So if you feature in the top 3,000 points scorers, you get 3 chances as there are 3 ballots to which you are entered.
If you feature in the top 6,000 points scorers, you get 2 chances as there are 2 ballots to which you are entered.

The benefit of this as I see it is that those further down the pecking order still get a small chance of a ticket, while the regulars still get a much higher chance than most (albeit not guaranteed). It fixes the problem of it being a closed shop. Ultimately we're all fans. It doesn't feel right to me that just because you're wealthy enough to be able to go to all games and happen to be "current" at what is the most successful time in the club's history, that you should be absolutely guaranteed a ticket every time you want one, while others who did the hard yards over several lean years but don't go every week anymore are just ignored.

What if you did the hard yards over the lean years, and then carried on doing the hard yards over the good years, but then don't get a ticket because someone dropped out for a few years. Doesn't exactly seem fair does it. The point system works well, I think its also silly to suggest those that do every away game are only able to do it because they are wealthy. A lot commit their money into doing it, and make sacrifices elsewhere.

 

[Beach Hut]

No, the change wasn't embarrassing. Your conduct was embarrassing.

I've already given the reasons why I don't like the current system. It disregards everybody who isn't a current STH; that's those who are unable to be a STH or get to many games for whatever reason. I'm not even saying that current regular attendees shouldn't get preferential treatment. They should. I just believe there needs to be a balance that doesn't disaffect those who don't fall into that category.

If the change wasn't embarrassing why do you think that change to the original loyalty points system (now season ticket points) should now be changed again to suit your own agenda ?

 

[Tooting Gull]

I assumed Simster was referring to the scheme in general rather than just the europa sale.

He may well have been..but I wasn't. I don't think Albion Plus members - and especially those with well over 100 points and who bought the 3-game EL pack - were well served by the cut offs done by the club specifically for the EL last 16 hm leg.

More generally, of course if you never get away tickets and have supported the club for 40 years (as both Simster and I have) it is going to be frustrating now and then. Not everyone has the time or money to redress that. But I accept no system is perfect and generally some sort of points based loyalty is probably fairest and has to be used.

I just think sometimes the club could do better by Albion Plus members, even if it is taking a bit more care and thought over the cut offs. Many are really solid fans, longstanding or young and STHs of the future. Maybe pick a couple of away games a season to give them a ballot chance for away games?