[Football] Euro 2020 - Pride

[NorthstandRacoon]

I'll speak here at risk of receiving some of the abuse that you have hurled on other threads.

Ego sometimes dresses itself up as pride. The two are separate.

The fact that you hurled abuse at folk on another thread who suggested that they were not excited by the tournament (and a Swede on here with a different interpretation) shows this about ego for you.

View attachment 138278

You talk about pride in your nationality, but do you not have pride in your nationality when they go out the first round ? What is your pride dependent on ?

Here is the carbon test.

When your nation goes out the first round, the economy drops its placing in the world, another nation does something better than us, and you still feel satisfaction at being English on the basis of what the nation does, rather than what it does better than others, and when it does do stuff better than others you don't feel the need to hold it over others, that's pride.

Your pride in being English when they win something, but not stating that pride when they are quickly vanquished, is ego as it is based on a transient premise.

I love being English, although I get a bit coy sometimes because of the actions of others.

If England win I'll be really happy. I'll be proud of the team, but no more proud of what's good in my country. It's the team I support, my favourite. But if Denmark win I'll be pleased for them too. And if Italy win I won't be as pleased but I'll have a large sum of pre tournament investment to collect from the bookies.

Actually, the biggest carbon test would be start a thread that congratulates the team who eventually beats us (if that happens). Anyone hostile at the idea of contributing to that is on an ego trip.

I have no idea what you are going on about. I'm always proud of my nationality, win or lose. Recently, with Brexit, not so much, but that can be forgotten now and we can look forward during this time of grief when we have a fantastic tournament on the go and one in which our team is doing the nation proud.

 

[Eeyore]

Yep.

I'm one of the few who loves the multi national format. It would be have been even better if the grounds were full. The idea of winning in Rome then getting things back to Wembley was great. Like a real cup competition.

England don't lose much at Wembley. If think the time who has only won all their competitive matches there is....

Oh....Denmark.

That's what my medication does to me at 1 in the morning.

 

[BN41Albion]

Not for me Clive, it’s all been hijacked and spoiled by the nationalists who cling to the flag. Pity.

Has it though, been 'hijacked'? Really?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I'll speak here at risk of receiving some of the abuse that you have hurled on other threads.

Ego sometimes dresses itself up as pride. The two are separate.

The fact that you hurled abuse at folk on another thread who suggested that they were not excited by the tournament (and a Swede on here with a different interpretation) shows this about ego for you.

View attachment 138278

You talk about pride in your nationality, but do you not have pride in your nationality when they go out the first round ? What is your pride dependent on ?

Here is the carbon test.

When your nation goes out the first round, the economy drops its placing in the world, another nation does something better than us, and you still feel satisfaction at being English on the basis of what the nation does, rather than what it does better than others, and when it does do stuff better than others you don't feel the need to hold it over others, that's pride.

Your pride in being English when they win something, but not stating that pride when they are quickly vanquished, is ego as it is based on a transient premise.

I love being English, although I get a bit coy sometimes because of the actions of others.

If England win I'll be really happy. I'll be proud of the team, but no more proud of what's good in my country. It's the team I support, my favourite. But if Denmark win I'll be pleased for them too. And if Italy win I won't be as pleased but I'll have a large sum of pre tournament investment to collect from the bookies.

Actually, the biggest carbon test would be start a thread that congratulates the team who eventually beats us (if that happens). Anyone hostile at the idea of contributing to that is on an ego trip.

Indeed.Substitute Brighton for England and you have the late Goldstone/Gillingham/Withdean years.

 

[Brovion]

I'm not proud of being born in a certain geographical location as I had very little to do with it.

Nationality is more than just a geographical location though, it's a sense of community, a sense of belonging. Without that type of glue we're just a load of disparate, competing individuals or small groups who happen to share a geographical location.

But I do understand your point, at one level it IS stupid being 'proud' of an accident of birth. Others of course are 'proud' of their sexuality or their race which intellectually is equally as stupid, but it's all part of a human need to belong.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Nationality is more than just a geographical location though, it's a sense of community, a sense of belonging. Without that type of glue we're just a load of disparate, competing individuals or small groups who happen to share a geographical location.

But I do understand your point, at one level it IS stupid being 'proud' of an accident of birth. Others of course are 'proud' of their sexuality or their race which intellectually is equally as stupid, but it's all part of a human need to belong.

This seems more a description for identity, which is an interesting discussion and more personal than nationality. Personally, pretty much the last thing I want to identify me is my birth place or my passport. But, via my English upbringing it does to a degree. But I’d rather be identified by my character and interests ….and obviously my humour. I choose these things and take some pride from time to time. Some pride, but mainly it’s just enthusiasm.

As for pride in the English national team, if you choose to follow them then I’m sure you can feel some pride.

 

[Nitram]

Has it though, been 'hijacked'? Really?

Obviously not for you, but the proportion who boo national anthems, those that take the knee and delight at children crying probably have one or two stashed away make it that way for me.
Not to mention the flag being the symbol of the EDL.
Also being used by nationalists to usurp the Union Jack for political reasons.
I bloody hate nationalism that’s dressed up in flags.

 

[swindonseagull]

You’re Swedish ffs - couldn’t you just leave one thread that doesn’t concern you alone?! Have a dominos and watch a film man.

How do you think someone gets to nearly 10,000posts in 2 years?

That’s roughly 400 posts per month or 13 per day..


But he’s not the worst member for wanting to post several times on every thread, I think some people have no life beyond NSC and must be in here 24/7.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Obviously not for you, but the proportion who boo national anthems, those that take the knee and delight at children crying probably have one or two stashed away make it that way for me.
Not to mention the flag being the symbol of the EDL.
Also being used by nationalists to usurp the Union Jack for political reasons.
I bloody hate nationalism that’s dressed up in flags.

I felt like this in 1982.

I don't feel like this now, partly because all those wankers like Das Reich have lost.

I wear my England shirt on footbally days, like I wear a Brighton shirt when the Albion play. I put an England flag in the window during the Euros and WC. I OWN it. It's mine.

Pride has always been a difficult word for me, though. 'I'm proud of my country' used to be something said before a gammon attacked a Pakistani. There is a saying. 'Pride before a fall'. Pride is quie an agressive concept to me. Even Gay Pride is aggressive (in this case, understandably so). I don't have anything to be aggressive about in a football context, so I simply don't use the word.

I just looked up Wiki and found this (below) and with this in mind it is easy to see how people shrink from the word. Unfortunately I can't think of anything better, a word that describes delight in the success of others connected with you, or yourself. 'Pride' is strictly a self-referential word - you can't be proud of others except in as much as they reflect your own excellence.

Pride is positive emotional response or attitude to something with an intimate connection to oneself, due to its perceived value. Oxford defines it amongst other things as "the quality of having an excessively high opinion of oneself or one's own importance"[1] This may be related to one's own abilities or achievements, positive characteristics of friends or family, or one's country. Richard Taylor defined pride as "the justified love of oneself",[2] as opposed to false pride or narcissism. Similarly, St. Augustine defined it as "the love of one's own excellence",[3] and Meher Baba called it "the specific feeling through which egoism manifests."[4]

Philosophers and social psychologists have noted that pride is a complex secondary emotion which requires the development of a sense of self and the mastery of relevant conceptual distinctions (e.g. that pride is distinct from happiness and joy) through language-based interaction with others.[5] Some social psychologists identify the nonverbal expression of pride as a means of sending a functional, automatically perceived signal of high social status.[6] In contrast, pride could also be defined as a lowly disagreement with the truth.

Pride is sometimes viewed as corrupt or as a vice, sometimes as proper or as a virtue. With a positive connotation, pride refers to a content sense of attachment toward one's own or another's choices and actions, or toward a whole group of people, and is a product of praise, independent self-reflection, and a fulfilled feeling of belonging. With a negative connotation pride refers to a foolishly[7] and irrationally corrupt sense of one's personal value, status or accomplishments,[8] used synonymously with hubris. While some philosophers such as Aristotle (and George Bernard Shaw) consider pride (but not hubris) a profound virtue, some world religions consider pride's fraudulent form a sin, such as is expressed in Proverbs 11:2 of the Hebrew Bible. In Judaism, pride is called the root of all evil. When viewed as a virtue, pride in one's abilities is known as virtuous pride, the greatness of soul or magnanimity, but when viewed as a vice it is often known to be self-idolatry, sadistic contempt, vanity or vainglory. Other possible objects of pride are one's ethnicity, and one's sexual identity (especially LGBT pride).

 

[A1X]

I'd never describe myself as being proud of "the country" as I don't really think there's a lot to feel proud of through accident of birth, however I am extremely proud of this current team and the way it has behaved, especially in spite of the provocation and attacks it has received around the knee and the like.

This is why I believe it matters, and why I'm proud of them;

[tweet]1411621714870648840[/tweet]
[tweet]1411622761915682816[/tweet]
[tweet]1411623525518094339[/tweet]
[tweet]1411624849580122116[/tweet]
[tweet]1411626427405975556[/tweet]

 

[WATFORD zero]

I was simply going to say that I feel a sense of pride in a group of very lucky, very privileged and very young men showing maturity, thoughtfulness and responsibility in taking the opportunity to highlight what they feel are shortcomings which effect others in society when representing their country.

But didn't want to in case it was considered contentious

 

[Eeyore]

I'd never describe myself as being proud of "the country" as I don't really think there's a lot to feel proud of through accident of birth, however I am extremely proud of this current team and the way it has behaved, especially in spite of the provocation and attacks it has received around the knee and the like.

This is why I believe it matters, and why I'm proud of them;

[tweet]1411621714870648840[/tweet]
[tweet]1411622761915682816[/tweet]
[tweet]1411623525518094339[/tweet]
[tweet]1411624849580122116[/tweet]
[tweet]1411626427405975556[/tweet]

This makes me proud of the England team.

 

[rippleman]

This makes me proud of the England team.

TeamS!! The poster did emphasise that they went to a Lionesses match at Wembley v Germany

(which will now set off those few on here who believe that football isn't a game for girls )

 

[Hamilton]

I'm as proud of being English as a Frenchman is of being French*, and I'll defend his right to be proud and hope he'll defend my right as well.

*insert whichever nationality you like.

As for reasons to be proud, there are as many faults as there are positives e.g. Oxford's role in AstraZeneca jab is a big thumbs up, but our decision to cut overseas aid is a big thumbs down. Our team's conduct, behaviour and performances are fantastic, but the booing of other national anthems is bad.

I love my country. I love what we aspire to be. I love our countryside. I love our sports. I love the people. I love our food. I love our music. But, there are as many negatives as there are positives. And that's the same wherever you go around the globe.

Right now, I love the fact that my clients are based in Poland, Portugal, Colombia, Netherlands, Germany and the USA. I love working with different people from different countries and different backgrounds. I love learning about them and laughing with them and while I'm proud of being English, I love the pride they have in their own countries and communities.

 

[Eeyore]

Has it though, been 'hijacked'? Really?

It feels like it, although in reality it is just a perception. I suppose the better word to use is 'besmirched'. We know that one well...

Ultimately though, it's just a flag. I find it odd that I don't cringe at the Union Jack as much. Sometimes it's hard to understand my own emotions.

So the question to myself, and perhaps others can help, is: Why, when I feel no natural shame at being English (in fact I LOVE it) do I cringe when I see some people waving the English flag ?

I can split this down. I don't cringe when I see kids waving it. I don't cringe when I see adults with smiley, happy faces waving it. I do cringe when I see it at some protests against this and that as well as pot bellied, shaven headed folk with aggressive looks on their faces adorned by it. (Not to berate pot bellied shaven folk as a stereo-type. I am shaven headed and bellied, although not quite pot).

So my interpretation is the flag is beautiful as a symbol of love. But my cringe is at its use as a symbol of perceived superiority. Which explains why hell will be let loose in some places if this goes tits up. If England did reach the final and lost to Italy I would advise a lot of folk in Bedford, for example, to not celebrate like they did in 2006.

Right now I have a Harlequins rugby flag gently waving at my window. I have an Albion flag in my cupboard. I'd love to have an England flag, but I still feel it gives a poor image. And there lays the rub. Folk don't hate being English. They just don't want others to get the wrong impression. That's all.

My favourite flag of all is the Sussex flag, which is odd, as in essence I would be an immigrant.

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1412373916081922052[/tweet]

 

[Soul Finger]

I'd never describe myself as being proud of "the country" as I don't really think there's a lot to feel proud of through accident of birth, however I am extremely proud of this current team and the way it has behaved, especially in spite of the provocation and attacks it has received around the knee and the like.

This is why I believe it matters, and why I'm proud of them;

[tweet]1411621714870648840[/tweet]
[tweet]1411622761915682816[/tweet]
[tweet]1411623525518094339[/tweet]
[tweet]1411624849580122116[/tweet]
[tweet]1411626427405975556[/tweet]

Great post and lovely to see those three ladies feeling proud.

The thought of gammons exploding with rage reading it also makes me happy.

 

[Soul Finger]

I'd never describe myself as being proud of "the country" as I don't really think there's a lot to feel proud of through accident of birth, however I am extremely proud of this current team and the way it has behaved, especially in spite of the provocation and attacks it has received around the knee and the like.

This is why I believe it matters, and why I'm proud of them;

[tweet]1411626427405975556[/tweet]

Great post and lovely to see those three ladies feeling proud.

The thought of gammons exploding with rage reading it also makes me happy.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Bouncing this as I am on cloud 9 today! Full of pride. Really believe now. can’t get over the lack of chat on NSC about how good last night really was.