EU to charge Britain more money due to success of economy....

[BigGully]

For the sake of perspective, what happens when you substitute witch doctor, for any of the following ?

Lesbians ?
Skateboarders ?
Youngsters ?
Unmarried couples ?
Drug Sellers ?
Jehovahs Witnesses ?

Over the course of a lifetime, places do change immeasurably and hearing old folk complaining is nothing new is it ?

Not to even acknowledge the implications of unprecedented levels of immigration seems to be quite perverse to me, to then somehow morph this into our current incumbent citizens doesnt really make sense.

It really doesnt need to be seen as some sort of prejudice or an 'ism' !!!

 

[Gwylan]

Edit - but I think immigration is a red herring in this debate. For me, the main issue, in fact the only issue is about self-determination.

Totally agree. I have no problem with EU immigration, I think it's healthy for Europe. I do object to the lack of control we have over the European Commission and the lack of power of the European Parliament

 

[Buzzer]

Totally agree. I have no problem with EU immigration, I think it's healthy for Europe. I do object to the lack of control we have over the European Commission and the lack of power of the European Parliament

Agreed completely. And like you, I'm no fan of UKIP at all.

 

[BigGully]

Totally agree. I have no problem with EU immigration, I think it's healthy for Europe. I do object to the lack of control we have over the European Commission and the lack of power of the European Parliament

How is immigration healthy for Europe, it is of course good/healthy for those peoples that wish to access greater financial opportunity as opposed to their current country, but I am less certain it is of benefit to those nations that might be seen as the best options, France, Germany, Britain etc. to achieve this.

I wholly acknowledge that those economic migrants have the best of intentions and who can blame them, but the consequences for our communities and services is that they cannot fully cope, its another political exercise that seems reasonable within debate but fails miserably on the ground.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Totally agree. I have no problem with EU immigration, I think it's healthy for Europe. I do object to the lack of control we have over the European Commission and the lack of power of the European Parliament

Most level headed people in this country think the same.

 

[BigGully]

Most level headed people in this country think the same.

Ok as a level headed person, would you open up world borders, if not why not or do you have a tipping point that might then prompt your support of restrictions of immigration within European or more directly the UK ??

 

[The Merry Prankster]

The former (Labour) Home Secretary seems rather concerned.

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Whilst writing for the Daily Mail. Quelle Surprise.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

That's all true (and I think the language issue is something that is far too often by commentators when talking about EU and non-migration). It should be pointed out though as a proportion of our population we're (I think) tenth in the table when it comes to EU immigrants, so we're not that popular. And in real terms, Germany takes more than us too - and that's despite the language issue.

No. We are a close 3rd behind Germany and France in terms of EU migration and 2nd to Germany in terms of non EU migration. You might have noticed that Germany in a lot bigger than us in terms of industry and population as well as geography. France is comparable in GDP but received fewer non EU migrants than us. Overall we are the 2nd largest net recipient of migrants within the EU and it is clearly no longer acceptable to the electorate here.

Clearly, with unemployment falling, thie British economy has accommodated the incomers very well in terms of the absolute numbers but there has been a huge demographic switch in a very short space of time and it is affecting services and keeping earnings artificially low.

Give us a vote and we can decide properly what sort of country we want.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Totally agree. I have no problem with EU immigration, I think it's healthy for Europe. I do object to the lack of control we have over the European Commission and the lack of power of the European Parliament

If we didn't have the channel seperating us from the rest of the EU, we would now be swamped with millions of migrants from outside the EU, I think opinions would certainly be a lot different. Relatives in southern Italy say the situation is bad. Open doors with EU is a bad idea because of this problem, there is absolutely no control whatsoever, it's why there are now 2300 people sitting at Calais waiting to get over here. If Calais was easier to get too there would 100,000 people there.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Ok as a level headed person, would you open up world borders, if not why not or do you have a tipping point that might then prompt your support of restrictions of immigration within European or more directly the UK ??

The issue is about EU immigration , the UK is a member state and cannot do anything to restrict free movement despite what Dodgy Dave is saying. The only way to control immigration would be to leave the EU and then impose a skills based quota system.

 

[BigGully]

The issue is about EU immigration , the UK is a member state and cannot do anything to restrict free movement despite what Dodgy Dave is saying. The only way to control immigration would be to leave the EU and then impose a skills based quota system.

But you said you felt immigration was healthy/advantageous to the UK, I dont think it is and you seemed to imply that you as a self proclaimed 'level headed person' supported it's unfettered continuation.

We are all aware that whilst in the EU it is going to be difficult to restrict significant movement that's why the debate is whether to leave.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

The issue is about EU immigration , the UK is a member state and cannot do anything to restrict free movement despite what Dodgy Dave is saying. The only way to control immigration would be to leave the EU and then impose a skills based quota system.

The skill based quota system was what the 1997 research commissioned by the UK recommended. It was then ignored by everyone.

 

[cunning fergus]

For the sake of perspective, what happens when you substitute witch doctor, for any of the following ?

Lesbians ?
Skateboarders ?
Youngsters ?
Unmarried couples ?
Drug Sellers ?
Jehovahs Witnesses ?

Over the course of a lifetime, places do change immeasurably and hearing old folk complaining is nothing new is it ?

I suspect old people from year dot have always lament the loss of places connected with their youth and the behaviour of other generations, however that should not be confused with the immeasurable change that now means London is ethnically 45% white British, that nearly a quarter of all births are to non British women or that Mohommed is London's most popular boys nam.,

Unless of course...............London has always been 45% white British, one in four births is a natural constant in our birth rate and Mohommed has always been London's most popular boys name.

Is that what you mean when you say complaining about change is "nothing new"

 

[cunning fergus]

The 1957 Treaty of Rome, which the UK is signed up to, clearly invites other countries to join the EEC so I really don't understand your point suggesting that there should be a referendum every time there's a new applicant:
eg:
".............RESOLVED by thus pooling their resources to preserve and strengthen peace and
liberty, and calling upon the other peoples of Europe who share their ideal to join in
their efforts,
HAVE DECIDED to create a European Economic Community and to this end have
designated as their Plenipotentiaries:..............."

So in your view it is entirely reasonable and logical that when laws are created they remain cogent and lawful regardless of any environmental developments, whether social, political, economic or otherwise?

This law was written in 1957..............a time when many people in this country believed spaghetti grew on trees.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/1/newsid_2819000/2819261.stm

I can only imagine your horror when the gay marriage bill was enacted................you must have been like a split atom.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

So in your view it is entirely reasonable and logical that when laws are created they remain cogent and lawful regardless of any environmental developments, whether social, political, economic or otherwise?

This law was written in 1957..............a time when many people in this country believed spaghetti grew on trees.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/1/newsid_2819000/2819261.stm

I can only imagine your horror when the gay marriage bill was enacted................you must have been like a split atom.

Yes. And it's not only his view. It's the view of Barosso and Juncker too.

It's described as a "founding principle" of the union although it was written at a time when the EEC was a postwar mechanism to stop Germany destroying Europe every few years.

Note that the original signatories were all countries which had land borders with Germany and all of whom had been pretty savaged by the Nazis or the Kaiser twice in that half of the century. The other, new countries had been either allied to or invaded by Hitler and all had suffered terribly as a consequence excepting Spain and Portugal who were not part of the original exercise as theft were run by dictators or military Junta.

Germany herself was rebuilding after being partitioned and occupied and many of her cities were still lying in ruins in 1957.

Times have changed. But the founding principle Alex Dawson oo oo is talking about is, front and centre, an attempt to stop German aggression for all time. It's worked in that regard but the whole exercise is basically an exercise in atonement for German guilt over Adolf and co.

 

[brighton fella]

Most level headed people in this country think the same.

you try telling that to some of the last few remaining indigenous folk of London where white flight is happening just about everywhere because of the influx of immigrants , you obviously haven't experienced none of this otherwise you wouldn't come out with such utter dribble.

its not a question of being racist quite simply a lot of these people just want to be amongst there own.
the best way I can describe it is if you were to walk in to a party unannounced and on arrival you see a mixture of afro Caribbean's and Pakistani's in one corner of the room Chinese in the other & Romanians and poles in the other and tucked away in the remaining corner you spot some of your own kind ...which group would you most likely mix with ?

 

[Gwylan]

No. We are a close 3rd behind Germany and France in terms of EU migration and 2nd to Germany in terms of non EU migration. Y

I said we were second to Germany in real terms but we're tenth (I was right) in proportional terms - nine European countries take more per head of population than we do. There's a good article here about why EU immigration is good for the UK

http://www.cityam.com/1413900278/uk...my-and-immigrants-arent-stealing-british-jobs

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Yes. And it's not only his view. It's the view of Barosso and Juncker too.

It's described as a "founding principle" of the union although it was written at a time when the EEC was a postwar mechanism to stop Germany destroying Europe every few years.

Note that the original signatories were all countries which had land borders with Germany and all of whom had been pretty savaged by the Nazis or the Kaiser twice in that half of the century. The other, new countries had been either allied to or invaded by Hitler and all had suffered terribly as a consequence excepting Spain and Portugal who were not part of the original exercise as theft were run by dictators or military Junta.

Germany herself was rebuilding after being partitioned and occupied and many of her cities were still lying in ruins in 1957.

Times have changed. But the founding principle Alex Dawson oo oo is talking about is, front and centre, an attempt to stop German aggression for all time. It's worked in that regard but the whole exercise is basically an exercise in atonement for German guilt over Adolf and co.

I think you're doing the other founding countries a dis-service and I certainly don't believe the EEC was founded by Germany alone of because of its historical guilt. Adenauer and all the other leaders were acutely aware of the European ills of nationalism and war-mongering and their aim was to eliminate them and for once and for all; however these ills were not just restricted to Germany or the founding six. Indeed, Churchill made a speech shortly after WWII about the need for a "United States of Europe" and this used to be quoted widely at the time of the ToR. Adenauer and the then French President were also disappointed that the UK didn't feel able to contribute; there's an anecdotal story in the FCO about Macmillan replying that he was too busy dealing with the crisis in Cyprus and Kenyan(?) independence to be bothered with a European trifle. Rule Britannia eh?
Btw, Italy doesn't have a border with Germany.

 

[jakarta]

you try telling that to some of the last few remaining indigenous folk of London where white flight is happening just about everywhere because of the influx of immigrants , you obviously haven't experienced none of this otherwise you wouldn't come out with such utter dribble.

its not a question of being racist quite simply a lot of these people just want to be amongst there own.
the best way I can describe it is if you were to walk in to a party unannounced and on arrival you see a mixture of afro Caribbean's and Pakistani's in one corner of the room Chinese in the other & Romanians and poles in the other and tucked away in the remaining corner you spot some of your own kind ...which group would you most likely mix with ?

This is NSC so the ones that had the best drugs I would have thought......

 

[Bold Seagull]

the best way I can describe it is if you were to walk in to a party unannounced and on arrival you see a mixture of afro Caribbean's and Pakistani's in one corner of the room Chinese in the other & Romanians and poles in the other and tucked away in the remaining corner you spot some of your own kind ...which group would you most likely mix with ?

Definitely the one with the hottest girls!