EU Final Poll - IN or OUT?

[Triggaaar]

You misread my motive.

I joked that you meant you voted out, when obviously I know that's not what you meant.

I'm out because I get very tired of reading threads which descend into bickering between two people, and I have no desire to be a guilty(-ier) party. I'm more than happy to continue the debate privately if you're so inclined though.

I'm not sure I have anything else to add to what I've said.

 

[lawros left foot]

If Spain, Italy, Ireland and Portugal all default, and the Euro fails, I suggest it's going to get quite bad.

That's so naive. If they need the money, which I'm sure they will, we'll eventually have to pay one way or another. We don't run the show, we will be told how much we benefit from being in the EU and if we want the EU to be a success we will have to pay towards it.

Even if, in the remotest chane you're right these or any other countries,do default, do you think the people of this country would stand for the EU reneging on the treaty that we have with them?
I'm a European enthusiast, but, I would be up in arms if this happened,and, I'm sure the Government would be even more angry than me. We would probably walk out, maybe taking other countries with us,as a key plank of our agreement would have been broken, and our veto made null and void.
We would also have recourse to the European court of Justice, with a 100% chance of it finding in our favour, as this Court is the final judgment in treaty disagreements.
So, you see, we will never pay anything into a Euro bailout,however if we go it aline, and need a bailout ourselves the EU would not have to bail us out.

Those are the facts

 

[heathgate]

They were objecting to the fraud Farage, who by his own boasting admission, managed one fisheries meeting, out of forty, where he could have done something for the fishermen. As you know.


http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/media/...-‘makes-mockery’-new-election-poster-20150408

So a personal attack on Farage trumps any consideration for actual fishermen who had made their way at large cost to protest at the trashing of their industry.

The nearest Geldof has been to fishing, is probably eating at Rick Steins place.

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[lawros left foot]

So a personal attack on Farage trumps any consideration for actual fishermen who had made their way at large cost to protest at the trashing of their industry.

The nearest Geldof has been to fishing, is probably eating at Rick Steins place.

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Are thes the same fishermen ,who in the past have sold some, or all of their quota allocation to Foreign trawler men.
Or is it the multi million pound firms which now run a fair amount of our off shore fishing fleet?
Or is it the fishermen, from the country with 13% of Europes total fishing ground,and 30% of the total quota.
Or is it the fishermen who lost their traditional fishing ground when Iceland (not an EU member) declared a 250 mile exclusion zone in the 70s to preserve fish stocks?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

So a personal attack on Farage trumps any consideration for actual fishermen who had made their way at large cost to protest at the trashing of their industry.

The nearest Geldof has been to fishing, is probably eating at Rick Steins place.

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CFP is aimed at saving their industry. Over-fishing has led to 29 of 33 main catch species becoming in danger of extinction. Quota's are essential, and as fish don't follow borders, a multi-national approach is too.

It needs some reform to reduce the favouring of large trawler fleets over smaller harbour-based operations (although this problem is in the hands of the member states, so its our government's fault, not the EU), needs to deal with the issue of over-fishing neighbouring non-EU countries and has to come up with a proper solution to discards and not keep backing down under pressure from the fishing lobby, but overall the CFP is positive for the industry. Incidentally the gross profit margin for the UK fishing industry increased from 15% in 2008 to 35% in 2014 and is the highest in the EU

 

[soistes]

Just voted - polling station busier than I've seen it for any election in recent years. I hope that's a good omen for Remain.

 

[daveinprague]

So a personal attack on Farage trumps any consideration for actual fishermen who had made their way at large cost to protest at the trashing of their industry.

The nearest Geldof has been to fishing, is probably eating at Rick Steins place.

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Led by a clown who has helped destroy their industry? You couldnt make it up.

 

[heathgate]

Are thes the same fishermen ,who in the past have sold some, or all of their quota allocation to Foreign trawler men.
Or is it the multi million pound firms which now run a fair amount of our off shore fishing fleet?
Or is it the fishermen, from the country with 13% of Europes total fishing ground,and 30% of the total quota.
Or is it the fishermen who lost their traditional fishing ground when Iceland (not an EU member) declared a 250 mile exclusion zone in the 70s to preserve fish stocks?

I love your empathy mate.... love it... the left and it's connection with the working man.

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[heathgate]

CFP is aimed at saving their industry. Over-fishing has led to 29 of 33 main catch species becoming in danger of extinction. Quota's are essential, and as fish don't follow borders, a multi-national approach is too.

It needs some reform to reduce the favouring of large trawler fleets over smaller harbour-based operations (although this problem is in the hands of the member states, so its our government's fault, not the EU), needs to deal with the issue of over-fishing neighbouring non-EU countries and has to come up with a proper solution to discards and not keep backing down under pressure from the fishing lobby, but overall the CFP is positive for the industry. Incidentally the gross profit margin for the UK fishing industry increased from 15% in 2008 to 35% in 2014 and is the highest in the EU

I am more interested in the human story being blotted out by an Irish millionaire.

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[heathgate]

Led by a clown who has helped destroy their industry? You couldnt make it up.

Shows your ignorance... the fishing community leads itself.... always has done....

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[Triggaaar]

Even if, in the remotest chane you're right these or any other countries,do default

It's not a remote chance. The Euro doesn't work.

do you think the people of this country would stand for the EU reneging on the treaty that we have with them?

Yes. It won't be reneging, they'd be offering us the chance to stay in a prosperous EU, or let the EU collapse. It would be spun as a benefit for us, as these things are always spun when we're being screwed.

I'm a European enthusiast, but, I would be up in arms if this happened,and, I'm sure the Government would be even more angry than me.

Just like when our government got a £1.7 bill which they described as 'totally unacceptable', and then they paid it. People here don't get up in arms, it's not what we do. We're cheated over agriculture, we're cheated over fishing policies, no one here does anything about it.

We would probably walk out, maybe taking other countries with us,as a key plank of our agreement would have been broken, and our veto made null and void.
We would also have recourse to the European court of Justice, with a 100% chance of it finding in our favour, as this Court is the final judgment in treaty disagreements.
So, you see, we will never pay anything into a Euro bailout

That's not a fact, agreements can be changed.

however if we go it aline, and need a bailout ourselves the EU would not have to bail us out.

But we're not going to need bailing out, because we didn't join the Euro.

 

[Steve in Japan]

Even if, in the remotest chane you're right these or any other countries,do default, do you think the people of this country would stand for the EU reneging on the treaty that we have with them?
I'm a European enthusiast, but, I would be up in arms if this happened,and, I'm sure the Government would be even more angry than me. We would probably walk out, maybe taking other countries with us,as a key plank of our agreement would have been broken, and our veto made null and void.
We would also have recourse to the European court of Justice, with a 100% chance of it finding in our favour, as this Court is the final judgment in treaty disagreements.
So, you see, we will never pay anything into a Euro bailout,however if we go it aline, and need a bailout ourselves the EU would not have to bail us out.

Those are the facts

Have a read of this. You will see it is somewhat less black and white than how you see it.

https://fullfact.org/europe/will-uk-pay-future-eurozone-bailouts/

 

[lawros left foot]

I love your empathy mate.... love it... the left and it's connection with the working man.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk[/QUOTE


My point is that some of our fishermen have bought the present state of their industry on themselves by selling their quotas.
The loss of their Icelandic fishing ground was a tragedy for the fishing communities, but nothing to do with the EU, and has, probably more to do with the downturn of deep sea fishing than anything else.
Farage is just using their plight for his own anti EU rhetoric, a man who can't even be bothered to turn up and vote on the vast number of EU directives that affect this industry, and you tell me i have no empathy?
At least I'm not a snake oil salesman, hypocrite like him.

 

[lawros left foot]

Have a read of this. You will see it is somewhat less black and white than how you see it.

https://fullfact.org/europe/will-uk-pay-future-eurozone-bailouts/

Yeah, I've read that before, but my point stands, if this was acted out by the EU, we would walk, and so, possibly would others

 

[Steve in Japan]

Yeah, I've read that before, but my point stands, if this was acted out by the EU, we would walk, and so, possibly would others

Thats one opinion. I disagree and think if push comes to shove we would put our hand in our pocket. After all, you want the free trade then you've got to share the pain. Thats kind of the point of the EU isn't it?

 

[heathgate]

I love your empathy mate.... love it... the left and it's connection with the working man.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk[/QUOTE


My point is that some of our fishermen have bought the present state of their industry on themselves by selling their quotas.
The loss of their Icelandic fishing ground was a tragedy for the fishing communities, but nothing to do with the EU, and has, probably more to do with the downturn of deep sea fishing than anything else.
Farage is just using their plight for his own anti EU rhetoric, a man who can't even be bothered to turn up and vote on the vast number of EU directives that affect this industry, and you tell me i have no empathy?
At least I'm not a snake oil salesman, hypocrite like him.

Still no criticism of the complete disregard for the working fishermen by the Irish millionaire...

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[Soulman]

Still no criticism of the complete disregard for the working fishermen by the Irish millionaire...

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Instead of one boat surrounded by Remain campaigners, we were now in convoy, followed by a dozen or so fishing trawlers, arriving outside the Palace of Westminster. Suddenly the Brexiteers didn’t need to shout back at Sir Bob – the fishermen were doing it for him. Although the protest was for a sombre issue – British fisheries being depleted – the atmosphere turned jovial, driven by the boisterous, un-PC fishermen who quite frankly had no intention of taking any shit from Geldof and his boat of LGBT-flag t-shirt wearing students.
“We’re better off In!” cried the has-been rock-geriatric before his boat was boarded by fishermen who wanted to show him first hand what happens to the fish that they’re forced to discard by the European Union. I have a feeling he was very lucky they were stopped by the river police before they got their hands on him, proficient in gutting and filleting that they are.

He soon scarpered, tail between his legs, having even managed to elicit groans from some of the most pro-EU journalists on board the HMS Farage.

 

[Hampster Gull]

The deed has been done.

Really difficult one for me.

Globalisation has impacted some us more than others, and the eu has exacerbated that by onboarding countries with such a wide exonomic gap. It is rational to kick back, for those most impacted, and i suspect will result in changes for their benefit whatever way the vote goes. In the short term there would undoubtedly be a shock wave through the economy if we left. But in the long run i suspect we will be fine either way. We would be different, but fine. A bit poorer, probably, but not that noticable. And the eu is mainly undemocratic, its a beast that at times is out of control. It needs to reform or over time will lose its support. However for me i enjoy my european peers, i see us as equals and as part of a wider community. I love diversity and dislike the whiff of xenophobia in the brexit camp. I want an inclusive britain, changing us and Europe for the good.

So for me it was remain.

 

[lawros left foot]

I like Sir Bob, I can see he's not everyone's cup of tea, but I like his passion for a cause he believes in.
So, his complete disregard for working fishermen, really it didnt come over like that for me, it was more his total contempt for the fishermans friend, Farage. Bob can't realistically help the fishermens cause, but maybe, if Farage turned up to vote now and again,instead of showboating (literally) on the Thames, he could help the industry a lot more, than any of us

 

[lawros left foot]

Thats one opinion. I disagree and think if push comes to shove we would put our hand in our pocket. After all, you want the free trade then you've got to share the pain. Thats kind of the point of the EU isn't it?

Yes, but given the amount of Euro scepticism in the country, any Government who agreed to giving money, without any coming back, would be toast