[Politics] EU Customs Union

[vegster]

Import and export must decrease or it is as the expense of the planets inhabitableness. Trade, transport and consumption must decrease and the easiest way to do it is to make it more expensive and difficult. Any obstacle that decrease trade is a good one and normally decreases the ecological footprint. Make exceptions and negotitate agreements for necessitities, but import and export of foreign luxuries and fun-to-have-shit must stop, and this goes for all countries. If the custom unions would have a policy of making trade more difficult, then it would be wise to join.

Trade has to exist, better for the planet to trade a higher volume with closer markets than those halfway round the globe.

 

[nicko31]

If we at all serious about growth we need to rejoin it ASAP.

In business people in Europe increasingly don't want to trade with us, just too bureaucratic.

 

[sparkie]

Maybe it does pass as democracy, but it’s akin to the hut being painted yellow in Auf Wiedershien Pet, ’Leave’ won (and yes i‘m over it) however fact remains it went through with only about 35% of eligible voters voting for it.

Absolute b0llocks. 72% voted.

Report: 23 June 2016 referendum on the UK’s membership of the European Union

Read our report on the 2016 EU referendum

www.electoralcommission.org.uk

35% voting FOR it sounds about right.

3 way split amongst eligible voters - For, Against, and No Vote. Each roughly 1/3rd of the total.

 

[ozzygull]

I would want to join the EU customs union, but I thought brexit would be a disaster, so what do I know.

 

[Wokeworrier]

Lots of good points made in this article imo ..

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...0/liz-truss-uk-britain-economy-brexit/671778/

... a rather redundant debate anyway as I don't think Starmer will be taking any chances re opening Brexit arguments before the next general election and the Tories won't rejoin the CU for obvious reasons.

 

[sparkie]

At some point joing the EU Customs Union will be trumpeted as the solution to the NI Protocol, voted on in Parliament, and into the CU we'll go.

Probably sooner under Starmer than the Tories, but it is almost inevitable.

 

[chickens]

Thanks to everyone who’s voted on this and given their thoughts.

My three main observations are:

1. Even with the NSC clientele leaning more toward left than right, the numbers pro rejoining the Customs Union are enough to indicate that a proportion of those who originally voted for Brexit are amenable to rejoining the Customs Union.

2. I have read every comment on this thread, and I’ve yet to come across any more concrete criticism of rejoining the Customs Union than (paraphrasing) “trust in politicians is low, it would be seen as the slippery slope to rejoining the EU in it’s entirety.” There haven’t been any arguments put forward that actually criticise the Customs Union itself.

3. There’s clearly still appetite (I’m sure primarily from those who voted Remain) for rejoining the Single Market. Sadly, I believe that this won’t happen within our lifetimes, for as much as I treasured the freedom to live or work anywhere within the EU, there were a significant proportion of people within the U.K. who resented the proliferation of Polish shops and Eastern European accents that came with free movement of people.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Jeeez. Democracy, let's get rid of votes altogether.

We are (were) a parliamentary democracy the referendum and aftermath greatly weakened it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Lots of good points made in this article imo ..

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...0/liz-truss-uk-britain-economy-brexit/671778/

... a rather redundant debate anyway as I don't think Starmer will be taking any chances re opening Brexit arguments before the next general election and the Tories won't rejoin the CU for obvious reasons.

So which way are you voting this time Steve, if it goes to the membership ?

It's just that given your support of Truss last time, I want to get a bet on the opposite before the markets firm up

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The 1975 referendum was to ratify or reject the Conservative goverment of Ted Heath's decision to join as of 1st Jan 1973. This was a manifesto pledge of the incoming 1974 Labour Goverment. This was not to Join but whether to remain.

It was, and we had been in a Free Trade Association (now known as EFTA) since 1960. It was purely 'trading standards' being agreed.

Even now the government keeps postponing checks on imports because they know it will cause complete and utter chaos, which is why sub standard rubbish is being brought in.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What's your point? Whoever did what, they gave us an 'in or out' choice to vote on. That's it; that's what they did and that's what happened.

There was a lot of pressure applied to persuade people to vote 'in', and plans for future developments, whatever they were at the time, were most certainly not widely publicised.

No, there really wasn't. In fact, people were annoyed that De Gaulle had objected twice in the 60s, to us joining.

 

[KZNSeagull]

IFS said that UK membership of the Single Market is worth 4% of GDP. Re-joining is a no brainer and if Starmer is serious about sorting things out then he should go for it. No to political union, yes to minimal trade barriers and free movement of people. Do it.

 

[Wokeworrier]

So which way are you voting this time Steve, if it goes to the membership ?

It's just that given your support of Truss last time, I want to get a bet on the opposite before the markets firm up

Try and avoid trolling on these types of threads Watters old boy, the grown ups are trying to have a serious discussion

 

[Dave the OAP]

The French and Spanish looting the UK's fishing grounds is a massive political issue. How would joining the Custome Union affect it?

Absolute splash in the ocean of our trade deficit! It’s an empire related argument that holds no water at all!

this is farage’s argument

 

[WATFORD zero]

Try and avoid trolling on these types of threads Watters old boy, the grown ups are trying to have a serious discussion

I was simply looking to your oft praised (by yourself on here) expertise in Financial Advice in order to do the opposite. I thought you'd approve of someone trying to make money but I'll leave it there

 

[wuntbedruv]

No to political union, yes to minimal trade barriers and free movement of people. Do it.

It was banning the free movement of people that got the last referendum over the line, too many closet racists in Bri

The French and Spanish looting the UK's fishing grounds is a massive political issue. How would joining the Custome Union affect it?

Another farage con trick.

Who killed the British fishing industry?

The UK's fisheries were a central part of the debate in the lead up to the Brexit vote, but did EU membership really kill the industry?

www.investmentmonitor.ai

 

[KZNSeagull]

It was banning the free movement of people that got the last referendum over the line, too many closet racists in Bri

Indeed, but we need the staff. 300,000 vacancies in the health and care system alone.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Liz Truss was absolutely right that despite a high tax burden our public services are of poor quality, and yet that high tax burden hampers growth. Her mistake was to borrow to cut tax for the rich and hope for trickle-down success.

This 44-day fiasco has shown that we cannot achieve growth in this way. Nor can we achieve growth through the utilisation of spare labour; we already have - effectively - full employment and a manifesto commitment for immigration in the tens of thousands means we can't bring in what we need.

Indeed, there is little chance of growth with all the red tape and excise duties associated with being outside the Single Market. Everything points to a Customs Union with the EU and - arguably - rejoining the Single Market. We need the labour, we need the customers, the capital, the removal of red tape, we need Northern Ireland sorted.

I don't believe the cost of paying in will be an obstacle - it will pay for itself. I also don't think the free movement of labour will be an issue, as we can simply restrict non-EU immigrants to offset any increase in net migration number. Indeed, we'll still be able to strike trade deals on our own.

The problem for some - but not all - will be the acceptance of EU law without representation. This is a huge political problem now, but I think it would not be insurmountable providing there were some benefits to being outside of the EU, such as our own free trade deal with the USA.

Starmer has to steer clear of getting dragged into a Brexit debate, and yet he needs to show courage and orientate Labour policy towards taking baby steps towards a Customs Union.

 

[Blue3]

With out any doubt entering into a customs makes complete sense as It is possible to be a member of just the customs union but not the single market(look at Turkey, Andorra or the Isle of Man). Conversely, it is possible to be a member of just the single market but not the customs union (take Norway or Iceland) but it’s very unlikely to happen any time soon

 

[dsr-burnley]

Liz Truss was absolutely right that despite a high tax burden our public services are of poor quality, and yet that high tax burden hampers growth. Her mistake was to borrow to cut tax for the rich and hope for trickle-down success.

This 44-day fiasco has shown that we cannot achieve growth in this way. Nor can we achieve growth through the utilisation of spare labour; we already have - effectively - full employment and a manifesto commitment for immigration in the tens of thousands means we can't bring in what we need.

Indeed, there is little chance of growth with all the red tape and excise duties associated with being outside the Single Market. Everything points to a Customs Union with the EU and - arguably - rejoining the Single Market. We need the labour, we need the customers, the capital, the removal of red tape, we need Northern Ireland sorted.

I don't believe the cost of paying in will be an obstacle - it will pay for itself. I also don't think the free movement of labour will be an issue, as we can simply restrict non-EU immigrants to offset any increase in net migration number. Indeed, we'll still be able to strike trade deals on our own.

The problem for some - but not all - will be the acceptance of EU law without representation. This is a huge political problem now, but I think it would not be insurmountable providing there were some benefits to being outside of the EU, such as our own free trade deal with the USA.

Starmer has to steer clear of getting dragged into a Brexit debate, and yet he needs to show courage and orientate Labour policy towards taking baby steps towards a Customs Union.

You don't need to join the customs union if you want to import cheap labour from Eastern Europe. The EU doesn't restrict the rights of its citizens to work abroad.