EU and AstraZeneca

[Neville's Breakfast]

I wouldn’t necessarily set great store by the Telegraph and what it says. But the Observer (part of the Guardian group) is today very critical.

Agreed, anyone can quote unnamed sources to justify an article. Doesn’t make the article wrong but they could work a bit harder to back up the piece.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

If you're going to quote the Guardian, as it gets a million links on here a day, at least don't disguise it as The Observer. Call it what it is.

The Observer leader today....... from the Guardian website....... being very critical of VDL, the whole EU thing about vaccines, having a go at Macron in to the bargain, and saying how urgent it is for them to get their house in order.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-dispute-with-brussels?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[drew]

No chance. The authoritarian autocrats have established unaccountable control over several decades. They are as likely to become accountable, or be made to become accountable, as Trump is to concede that he lost the US presidential election.

And as likely that Johnson will admit to at least one thing out of the very many that he has got wrong!

Let's not forget our elected government has presided over the worst covid record in Europe and most of the World bar probably the US who had their own imbecile in charge.

The continual lauding of the vaccine programme is merely a smokescreen for what has gone before.

 

[beorhthelm]

The problem is that it is a bit late. AstraZeneca have promised extra supplies by the Spring but that means several months more of lockdown and many more deaths. I think I read something about Sanofi facilities being used by other pharmaceutical companies. Should help.

use of Sanofi capacity wont help in the short term, they'll be months behind on setting up their production. and they are making the newer tech Pfizer vaccine, rather than the simpler Astrazeneca.

 

[Sorrel]

Glad to see the various parties stepping back over the last 24 hours.

Hopefully having seen where that kind of behaviour leads, all sides will now realise it's in everyone's interests to get the vaccines to as many people as possible - both within Europe and beyond it.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

And as likely that Johnson will admit to at least one thing out of the very many that he has got wrong!

Let's not forget our elected government has presided over the worst covid record in Europe and most of the World bar probably the US who had their own imbecile in charge.

The continual lauding of the vaccine programme is merely a smokescreen for what has gone before.

Have a read of posts 709 to 737 (inclusive) so this thread can avoid being diverted (once again) by whataboutery

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

And as likely that Johnson will admit to at least one thing out of the very many that he has got wrong!

Let's not forget our elected government has presided over the worst covid record in Europe.

It's bad and huge mistakes made but it's not the worse in Europe.

 

[larus]

And as likely that Johnson will admit to at least one thing out of the very many that he has got wrong!

Let's not forget our elected government has presided over the worst covid record in Europe and most of the World bar probably the US who had their own imbecile in charge.

The continual lauding of the vaccine programme is merely a smokescreen for what has gone before.

The problem which Tory haters don’t want to see (or do see, but hate stops them admitting) is that the stats are not collected the same. The better test would be excess deaths during the pandemic.
There’s a difference between dying OF Covid and FROM Covid. We record any death where the person has died WITH Covid (or with a positive test in the last 28 days), even if they had terminal cancer.
Other countries may insist on a positive test and will exclude those if Covid was not the cause.

Also, the UK is a more densely populated country, and this has an impact too.

But, of course, that doesn’t help in your case to slag off the Tories and suck off the EU.

 

[A1X]

It's amazing how there can be so much hot air blown over what is essentially an issue of contractual law and who has agreed to provide what to who and whether they've done so

 

[larus]

Glad to see the various parties stepping back over the last 24 hours.

Hopefully having seen where that kind of behaviour leads, all sides will now realise it's in everyone's interests to get the vaccines to as many people as possible - both within Europe and beyond it.

I think you should clarify that ‘various parties’ are all EU parties.

The UK has done nothing wrong in the debacle. This however, has completely destroyed any remaining credibility that some had in their proclamations of being a ‘rules based organisation’. That’s been proven to be b*llocks.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

It's amazing how there can be so much hot air blown over what is essentially an issue of contractual law and who has agreed to provide what to who and whether they've done so

Not really when life and death is taken into account and particularly when considering the Brexit wounds are still fresh both sides of the channel.

I hope we can give the EU some help here. If possible it would be a fantastic gesture, maybe we could help Southern Ireland as we share so much difficult history, and it would in a small way be a way to help put our sad history behind us both.

 

[A1X]

I hope we can give the EU some help here. If possible it would be a fantastic gesture, maybe we could help Southern Ireland as we share so much difficult history, and it would in a small way be a way to help put our sad history behind us both.

This is true. New Zealand was lauded for their action in purchasing enough vaccine for the poorer Pacific island nations and effectively donating them, our Government seems to have more vaccine on order than it needs so perhaps a chance to do something like this wouldn't go amiss. Not that I expect our current Government to actually show any sort of compassion for anyone but themselves, frankly. I'm a little bit surprised they haven't found a way to bump themselves to the front of the queue.

 

[Sorrel]

I think you should clarify that ‘various parties’ are all EU parties.

The UK has done nothing wrong in the debacle. This however, has completely destroyed any remaining credibility that some had in their proclamations of being a ‘rules based organisation’. That’s been proven to be b*llocks.

Well, I do agree - but I think it's obvious enough that there's no need to stress the point. The UK government should make sure they don't descend to those kind of tactics too.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well, I do agree - but I think it's obvious enough that there's no need to stress the point. The UK government should make sure they don't descend to those kind of tactics too.

I'm sure we can rely on the British Government not do descend to threatening to break International law

 

[peterward]

Not really when life and death is taken into account and particularly when considering the Brexit wounds are still fresh both sides of the channel.

I hope we can give the EU some help here. If possible it would be a fantastic gesture, maybe we could help Southern Ireland as we share so much difficult history, and it would in a small way be a way to help put our sad history behind us both.

i'd be very much in favour of helping the R.O.I as very close neighbours, but unfortunately for them the EU wouldnt allow that.

Theyre distribution and control is centralised, we'd have to send it to the EU and they would then decide where it goes.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It's amazing how there can be so much hot air blown over what is essentially an issue of contractual law and who has agreed to provide what to who and whether they've done so

I know .... the EU wants to lead on securing vaccine doses for its members thereby slowing down the ordering process then fails to secure enough doses to a specified timetable in a legally binding contract (undoubtedly costing lives), so it blames a company that has developed the vaccine selling it at cost to poorer nations, raids its offices, indulges in vaccine nationalism (threatening legally obtained UK supplies) and Trumpian rhetoric then moves to erect a hard border without consulting the Irish or Uk government .... amazed anyone is interested in this story at all.

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

It's amazing how there can be so much hot air blown over what is essentially an issue of contractual law and who has agreed to provide what to who and whether they've done so

Hot air? I assume you don't have relatives in their 70's living in the EU and who won't be vaccinated anytime soon because The Commission insisted on taking over, then bungling the procurement process. There is also nobody to "vote out" because the Commission is appointed. I'm not sure how the most important call in this entire pandemic (procurement) be considered "hot air". This isn't an abstract issue, this is people's relatives, their lives and livelihoods. It's a little bit more than hot air for many (such as the 450 million people who live in the EU for a start and their relatives who live outside). They we go, I suppose we all have our different perspectives as to what is important.

 

[Skuller]

This is true. New Zealand was lauded for their action in purchasing enough vaccine for the poorer Pacific island nations and effectively donating them, our Government seems to have more vaccine on order than it needs so perhaps a chance to do something like this wouldn't go amiss. Not that I expect our current Government to actually show any sort of compassion for anyone but themselves, frankly. I'm a little bit surprised they haven't found a way to bump themselves to the front of the queue.

Because it doesn't appeal to their core vote, the government doesn't publicise too much what it does to help prevent vaccine poverty. The UK alone has contributed £500M to COVAX which is the organisation set-up by WHO, CEPI and GAVI to support the building of manufacturing capabilities, and buying of supply, ahead of time so that 2 billion doses can be fairly distributed by the end of 2021. The EU has contributed 500M Euros. To pluck one EU country (Germany) out of the air, it has contributed 100M Euros but I'm not sure if that is part of the EU's 500M. Whatever, these are large sums of money to help ensure the vaccines get to where they should. I'm not saying that more couldn't or shouldn't be done, but lots is going on by that slew of organisations I referred to above, funded by the richer nations.

 

[peterward]

This is true. New Zealand was lauded for their action in purchasing enough vaccine for the poorer Pacific island nations and effectively donating them, our Government seems to have more vaccine on order than it needs so perhaps a chance to do something like this wouldn't go amiss. Not that I expect our current Government to actually show any sort of compassion for anyone but themselves, frankly. I'm a little bit surprised they haven't found a way to bump themselves to the front of the queue.

As always tribal lefties praise a socialist leader in NZ for purchasing vaccine for poorer countries, whilst unable to admit, or simply to ill informed from the Guardian/Mirror echo chamber that your statement is complete bollox.

The UK donated to, matched others donations in the COVAX scheme - a pledge of £548 million pounds additionally from the UK to the fund to buy vaccines for poorer nations.

Thats a £1 billion vaccine donation for poorer nations, and a pot that stands at about 6 billion, from an initiative run by this government to engage other nations, or in your words....... Government seems to have more vaccine on order than it needs so perhaps a chance to do something like this wouldn't go amiss. Not that I expect our current Government to actually show any sort of compassion for anyone but themselves, frankly. I'm a little bit surprised they haven't found a way to bump themselves to the front of the queue that you so brazenly and falsely claim.

Im sure we will also donate large swathes of what we have procured once we are certain that supplies can cover vulnerable brits (any governments priority is its citizens) and in a year from now I'm sure nasty uncaring Britains government, will have done more to supply vaccines to poorer nations than the leftist Superwoman you claim as so much more virtuous.

fwiw she is donating to local islands the sum of 18 million doses, enough for 9 million people, that is commendable and praiseworthy, our involvement in the COVAX initiative so far, if looking purely in financial terms before giving extra procured supply away, will buy somewhere around 350 million doses to the worlds poorest or 175 million people, that's still not enough, nowhere near and i hope we will do more as well as others like the EU, US, Canada, Germany, Japan and the other wealthier western nations involved, but that's still considerable is it not?

This government may have made many mistakes, it has.........but get your facts straight, your statement is blind tribal rubbish.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-raises-1bn-so-vulnerable-countries-can-get-vaccine

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

This is true. New Zealand was lauded for their action in purchasing enough vaccine for the poorer Pacific island nations and effectively donating them, our Government seems to have more vaccine on order than it needs so perhaps a chance to do something like this wouldn't go amiss. Not that I expect our current Government to actually show any sort of compassion for anyone but themselves, frankly. I'm a little bit surprised they haven't found a way to bump themselves to the front of the queue.

It is a great pity that you are so biased against out government that you don't seem to be able to even grudgingly give some credit or allow for something good from them.

Many times in this pandemic, I have been enraged by the government and felt that sometimes Labour's response was better. However I believe I am at most times able to believe that not everything they do is bad and that sometimes, even a government that hasn't particularly impressed has excelled in other areas.

Our government has been very conciliatory since the misstep by the EU, one which I regard as the worst mistake since the EU fudged the criteria for admittance to the Euro, so it is to their credit that the Government has emerged, at least for the present time, looking statesman-like, unlike the poor behaviour witnessed from the EU at the beginning of the weekend. Gove has stated that the UK government is willing to help the EU and I for one will exercise restraint of judgement until such a time that it either unfolds with a positive response or lack thereof.