EU and AstraZeneca

[Guinness Boy]

‘Late on Friday evening, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said the UK and EU had "agreed on the principle that there should not be restrictions on the export of vaccines by companies where they are fulfilling contractual responsibilities".
She said the backtrack came after "constructive talks" with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson in which he had expressed "grave concerns" about the initial plan.‘

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55865539

That’s the completion of the u-turn. It’s an extraordinary diplomatic misstep. One of the Sky News correspondents last night was saying when you repeat aloud the EU’s worry that vaccines would be taken over the Irish border and then into the UK it sounds ridiculous that they could ever have imagined such a scenario. There seem to be decision makers at the heart of the EU so consumed by their anti UK attitude that they are holding their organization up to ridicule. A lot of this seems to be an attempt to cover up their mistakes and deflect blame when taking responsibility would have been the better option.

I'm sure there will be those delighting in me writing this but credit where it is due (and brickbats). Boris has played a blinder here and the EU have covered themselves in shite and made themselves look awful.

However, I wonder why they might possibly have an "anti UK attitude" that consumes them at the top level? Really bad relations between the UK and Europe and the likely further break up of the EU is exactly what Russia would need geo-politically. Farageski must be delighted.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I'm sure there will be those delighting in me writing this but credit where it is due (and brickbats). Boris has played a blinder here and the EU have covered themselves in shite and made themselves look awful.

However, I wonder why they might possibly have an "anti UK attitude" that consumes them at the top level? Really bad relations between the UK and Europe and the likely further break up of the EU is exactly what Russia would need geo-politically. Farageski must be delighted.

Undoubtedly true and makes it all the more difficult to understand EU behavior

 

[Guinness Boy]

Undoubtedly true and makes it all the more difficult to understand EU behavior

Yep. I'm not disagreeing for a second that they are the bad guys here.

 

[peterward]

Had us over a barrel to agree a watered down deal just before the deadline with the truckers. It was perfect timing for them. The circumstances obviously weren't anything that could have been manufactured but they were quick enough to flex their muscles and use the situation to show what things could be like so basically f uck them now. For once we may be putting our country first (and I voted remain before I get the little englander shit) .

There was way too much stereotyping on both sides. Our membership of the EU did have benefits like freedom of movement, single market. But it just doesn’t need an undemocratic, unelected behemoth taking national sovereignty as a price for this, whilst preventing nations from making deals with the rest of the world. The common market is a great idea, we could have all the benefits without the power grab, diktats and superceeding of national laws.

It is probably true that more racists and and right wing extremists voted brexit on a single issue of immigration, stoked by trumpesque dog whistle politics of Farage, and that’s always the one size fits all stereotype that’s thrown.

But leavers are left,right and centrist many who just saw the EU long ago, for what they are showing now, a protectionist, beurocratic mafia nobody voted for. And for better/worse (and I’m confident it will be better after a period of re adjustment as it’s a big world full of opportunities), I like the idea of voting for a local MP who can propose, and amend legislation, that can raise your issues in parliament, where a petition can guarantee a debate, and lawmakers you can fire if you choose.

Not so the EU commission, who set the laws. MEPs can only debate the diktats and vote on them.

In one day with their vaccine blame shifting actions, they united remainers, leavers, Republic of Ireland, Sinn Fein, DUP, UK government, and the Church of England against them!

 

[Chicken Run]

I'm sure there will be those delighting in me writing this but credit where it is due (and brickbats). Boris has played a blinder here and the EU have covered themselves in shite and made themselves look awful.

However, I wonder why they might possibly have an "anti UK attitude" that consumes them at the top level? Really bad relations between the UK and Europe and the likely further break up of the EU is exactly what Russia would need geo-politically. Farageski must be delighted.

I think their handling of this situation has underpinned what a patchwork quilt of an organisation the EU is, a good trading club possibly but being in charge of serious world issues & global emergency, no thanks.


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[wellquickwoody]

From afar......

Big government is full of bureaucracy, small government less so. Boris got something right, the EU get a lot of things right.

Government of all kinds should be as small as necessary to do the right thing as quickly as possible. Bureaucrats, hangers on and gravy trainers should be on a permanent time against motion study.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think their handling of this situation has underpinned what a patchwork quilt of an organisation the EU is, a good trading club possibly but being in charge of serious world issues & global emergency, no thanks.


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27 countries together really shouldn't be in charge of global emergencies though. Far too unwieldy. Even the WHO are basically only advisory. My remain vote was always about the continued membership of a good trading club with the economic and cultural benefits that come with it, not to mention maintenance of the Good Friday Agreement. It comes with an acceptance that Brussels has elements of red tape and a few mandarins running round it, but then so does Whitehall and the unelected HoL.

Nonetheless, like I said, this is Boris 1 EU 0. On vaccines we are leading the world and I think you can be proud of that without resort to right wing dog whistle.

 

[peterward]

I'm sure there will be those delighting in me writing this but credit where it is due (and brickbats). Boris has played a blinder here and the EU have covered themselves in shite and made themselves look awful.

However, I wonder why they might possibly have an "anti UK attitude" that consumes them at the top level? Really bad relations between the UK and Europe and the likely further break up of the EU is exactly what Russia would need geo-politically. Farageski must be delighted.

You raise good points. It is Russia’s wish and thus why they fund anti EU groups.

But for years there’s been calls for the EU to radically change course and give up the creep creep to superstate, and get back to national state multilateralism, without a commission that sucks sovereignty and seeks to legislate on everything. They don’t listen, they’re fanatics. There has been huge waves of anti EU sentiment rising in many countries due to the lack of accountability and they don’t listen, voters have rejected the EU in some forms in referendaums in France, Denmark, Netherlands and Ireland and they’re told to revote. This is the root cause.

But now we have left, the federalist fanatics couldn’t allow (as much as they could control) a favourable UK exit, as a deterrence from leaving to other national waverers, this was key in their negotiations, the Irish border issue not that important once self interest kicks in and even now as they’ve made big mistakes in bungling their vaccine roll out, to admit they got it wrong and that the UK are forging ahead is political dynamite to encourage more leave sentiments for the many already unhappy with direction of travel.

The reality to the federalist fanatics is to hard to swallow and damages their superstate ambitions, so turn the UK into the pantomime villain, claim it is we that are vaccine nationalists and have taken their jabs, and blame the part UK vaccine maker AZ is a narrative with 2 purposes. Deflect blame and try to piss on uk parade to quell anti eu sentiment.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

27 countries together really shouldn't be in charge of global emergencies though. Far too unwieldy. Even the WHO are basically only advisory. My remain vote was always about the continued membership of a good trading club with the economic and cultural benefits that come with it, not to mention maintenance of the Good Friday Agreement. It comes with an acceptance that Brussels has elements of red tape and a few mandarins running round it, but then so does Whitehall and the unelected HoL.

Nonetheless, like I said, this is Boris 1 EU 0. On vaccines we are leading the world and I think you can be proud of that without resort to right wing dog whistle.

And yet again, without wishing to turn this into another Brexit thread, isn't that the point ? Even as a leaver I was happy with the idea of a free trade block - otherwise known as the EEC. It worked generally ( bar the butter mountains and CAP ) but the EU was a step up to become an united states of Europe. I'd have been happy to vote to stay in the EEC. What the EU have demonstrated here is that they want complete power - and they certainly haven't covered themselves in glory. Maybe it's the first step to becoming a trade block once again .... one can but hope.

 

[Chicken Run]

27 countries together really shouldn't be in charge of global emergencies though. Far too unwieldy. Even the WHO are basically only advisory. My remain vote was always about the continued membership of a good trading club with the economic and cultural benefits that come with it, not to mention maintenance of the Good Friday Agreement. It comes with an acceptance that Brussels has elements of red tape and a few mandarins running round it, but then so does Whitehall and the unelected HoL.

Nonetheless, like I said, this is Boris 1 EU 0. On vaccines we are leading the world and I think you can be proud of that without resort to right wing dog whistle.

Maybe this moment in time may finally in a twist of fate go someway towards confining the quite ugly disagreements over the EU on this board to the basement and perhaps we can all get along with political issues to one side and look forward to a ruined Sunday night together [emoji106]


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[Guinness Boy]

And yet again, without wishing to turn this into another Brexit thread, isn't that the point ? Even as a leaver I was happy with the idea of a free trade block - otherwise known as the EEC. It worked generally ( bar the butter mountains and CAP ) but the EU was a step up to become an united states of Europe. I'd have been happy to vote to stay in the EEC. What the EU have demonstrated here is that they want complete power - and they certainly haven't covered themselves in glory. Maybe it's the first step to becoming a trade block once again .... one can but hope.

Yes. Yes it is. I don't think you and I are too far apart on a lot of things. It's the extremists on both sides that send Brexit toxic.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

There was way too much stereotyping on both sides. Our membership of the EU did have benefits like freedom of movement, single market. But it just doesn’t need an undemocratic, unelected behemoth taking national sovereignty as a price for this, whilst preventing nations from making deals with the rest of the world. The common market is a great idea, we could have all the benefits without the power grab, diktats and superceeding of national laws.

It is probably true that more racists and and right wing extremists voted brexit on a single issue of immigration, stoked by trumpesque dog whistle politics of Farage, and that’s always the one size fits all stereotype that’s thrown.

But leavers are left,right and centrist many who just saw the EU long ago, for what they are showing now, a protectionist, beurocratic mafia nobody voted for. And for better/worse (and I’m confident it will be better after a period of re adjustment as it’s a big world full of opportunities), I like the idea of voting for a local MP who can propose, and amend legislation, that can raise your issues in parliament, where a petition can guarantee a debate, and lawmakers you can fire if you choose.

Not so the EU commission, who set the laws. MEPs can only debate the diktats and vote on them.

In one day with their vaccine blame shifting actions, they united remainers, leavers, Republic of Ireland, Sinn Fein, DUP, UK government, and the Church of England against them!

But not Scotland

 

[Guinness Boy]

Maybe this moment in time may finally in a twist of fate go someway towards confining the quite ugly disagreements over the EU on this board to the basement and perhaps we can all get along with political issues to one side and look forward to a ruined Sunday night together [emoji106]


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I'll drink to that (on Sunday night when I'll need a beer!)

 

[WATFORD zero]

Thank Goodness they've backed down as it could have got horrendous for the EU, AstraZeneca and impacted on us. Hopefully they'll now concentrate on getting their vaccines suppliers scaled up quickly in the same way we have and get on with the important stuff.

Almighty **** up by the EU and I really can't see what they were trying to achieve once the contract was published yesterday

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Thank Goodness they've backed down as it could have got horrendous for the EU, AstraZeneca and impacted on us. Hopefully they'll now concentrate on getting their vaccines suppliers scaled up quickly in the same way we have and get on with the important stuff.

Almighty **** up by the EU and I really can't see what they were trying to achieve once the contract was published yesterday

If I was the EU I'd be sacking my lawyers ... the publication of the contract did them no favours.

 

[knocky1]

If I was the EU I'd be worried about how this fiasco will boost the Popular Parties throughout the EU alongside the almost complete abortion ban in Poland.

 

[Baker lite]

Maybe this moment in time may finally in a twist of fate go someway towards confining the quite ugly disagreements over the EU on this board to the basement and perhaps we can all get along with political issues to one side and look forward to a ruined Sunday night together [emoji106]


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This..

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Did it not say when you booked somewhere?

I'm in clinically vulnerable group 4 too, got invite text this morning, but they said it's for Oxford/AZ, I called GP to see of I could delay a week or two or if to get Pfizer and they said no, book now or wait till next clinic.

I have decided to wait, reasons are that my work will expect me back in once vaccinated and 3 weeks passed and and I am CEV, and that Oxford still haven't released any official data that it works on UK variant yet, it's due in next 2 weeks.

I asked, what if I take Oxford and it's not effective on British variant, then what? As I don't want to be left shielding again, im not 85 or in an old people's home, I want and need to get back to work if possible, and so far only Pfizer have confirmed it Def does work on the most predominant strain in UK. If I took Oxford next week and UK variant data wasn't good, would I be offered something else or is that it, had my turn so tough titties....... she couldn't answer bit said it's unlikely you'd get another soon, so I asked to go on waiting list for Pfizer and will call back in next 2 weeks and gladly take Oxford if official report, when released, shows it Def works to reasonable effect on UK variant.

As of today only Pfizer can guarantee I can get back to work and get off of shielding as it's proven to work on UK variant, hopefully Oxford will shortly too, but today it's still a punt as there's nothing official.

Should hopefully work isn't the same as Def does, so will wait up to 2 weeks for official report.

They haven’t disclosed the brand I am getting.

My GP when asked for his view personally said he’d rather have the Oxford jab as it has more research behind it with 4 years worth of data on SARS and Mears which is the base of this vaccine before modification. I am not informed enough to have a view between the tow but accept I could be talking to doctor Nick Riviera!


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[Leekbrookgull]

so despite the EMA approval, Macron has followed the narrative that the Astrazeneca vaccine is not effective in over 65s. no proof, nothing from EMA. what is their problem with Astrazeneca?

The vaccine spat was a topic on R2/JV show yesterday and it was mentioned (although can't find anything online) that Macron wanted France to be the sole/major supplier of any EU Covid vaccine,just how true it is i have no idea but the way that this is being played out it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Eeyore]

If I was the EU I'd be worried about how this fiasco will boost the Popular Parties throughout the EU alongside the almost complete abortion ban in Poland.

I worry that after last night we may be getting the fall out here.

Farage won't need to go looking for groupies for a while. It's a genuine concern.