EU and AstraZeneca

[Blue Valkyrie]

The following quote is worrying as it is baseless but will cause the UK to get involved in the EU's inability to organise itself.

EU Justice Commissioner Didier Reynders has warned of a "vaccine war".

Speaking on Belgian radio, he said: "The EU commission has pushed to co-ordinate the vaccines contracts on behalf of the 27 precisely to avoid a vaccines war between EU countries, but maybe the UK wants to start a vaccine war?

"Solidarity is an important principle of the EU. With Brexit, it's clear that the UK doesn't want to show solidarity with anyone."

I think the UK Government is wisely not getting involved with this. We have our contract with AZ which is ( so far at least ) being honoured.

The EU is flailing around trying to divert blame from its failed, slow vaccine procurement process.

The sooner we get the Novavax vaccine approved and in use the better as this will be 100% produced in the UK with no scope for the EU stealing our contracted doses.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

What I take from that is that the EU sees vaccine warfare with all non member states in order to preserve solidarity amongst the 27. I am sure he is playing to the gallery but it is so destructive and unnecessary.

I am sure there must be plenty of EU 'figures' hell bent in milking this as a means of getting back at the UK for our flounce.

The correct response, however, is to shrug our shoulders. We have done nothing wrong, and nothing different from Germany who have also bought vaccine outside the EU purchasing cartel. They haven't used it much yet though because they operate a different set of standards to us over burden of proof, safety etc. I could tell a few tales about Germans and their hygeine

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

What I take from that is that the EU sees vaccine warfare with all non member states in order to preserve solidarity amongst the 27. I am sure he is playing to the gallery but it is so destructive and unnecessary.

He wouldn't be saying such things about the USA for fear of sanctions to the trade deals. He is attempting to make us part of their failure.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The following quote is worrying as it is baseless but will cause the UK to get involved in the EU's inability to organise itself.

EU Justice Commissioner Didier Reynders has warned of a "vaccine war".

Speaking on Belgian radio, he said: "The EU commission has pushed to co-ordinate the vaccines contracts on behalf of the 27 precisely to avoid a vaccines war between EU countries, but maybe the UK wants to start a vaccine war?

"Solidarity is an important principle of the EU. With Brexit, it's clear that the UK doesn't want to show solidarity with anyone."

Shocking but predictable and i rest my case, look after your own and we are thankfully
Regards
DF

 

[atomised]

I think the UK Government is wisely not getting involved with this. We have our contract with AZ which is ( so far at least ) being honoured.

The EU is flailing around trying to divert blame from its failed, slow vaccine procurement process.

The sooner we get the Novavax vaccine approved and in use the better as this will be 100% produced in the UK with no scope for the EU stealing our contracted doses.

Sounds like very dangerous language to be using. The EU argument is with a business, not the government and we are best served staying well out of it

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think the UK Government is wisely not getting involved with this. We have our contract with AZ which is ( so far at least ) being honoured.

The EU is flailing around trying to divert blame from its failed, slow vaccine procurement process.

The sooner we get the Novavax vaccine approved and in use the better as this will be 100% produced in the UK with no scope for the EU stealing our contracted doses.

I agree completely that the UK Government should keep out.

However, in my experience of contract negotiations and worse, the detail of the contract always has more effect on the outcome than the date it was signed. As I stated right at the beginning, the EU being 3 months late was a major cock up. However, if the supplier is not fulfilling the contract and is already at maximum capacity (of which I don't think there is any doubt) they may well look at the other contracts they've signed.

If that were to happen, then our Government would need to get involved. That's my only concern with this whole debate.

 

[nicko31]

You can make it up though, it seems.

Germany have bought millions of doses of vaccine. Half of them through the EU consortium. The other half by private arrangements.

Look, you won, we have left the EU. There is no need for aftertiming. For the last time, if we had been in the EU still we would still have had absolute authority to buy any amount of vaccine from wherever. MHRA rules, always did.

I haven't read so much fake news in a long time

Thank you for the clarity.

Hopefully the covid death count starts falling soon, this should be all of our immediate concerns.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think the UK Government is wisely not getting involved with this. We have our contract with AZ which is ( so far at least ) being honoured.

The EU is flailing around trying to divert blame from its failed, slow vaccine procurement process.

The sooner we get the Novavax vaccine approved and in use the better as this will be 100% produced in the UK with no scope for the EU stealing our contracted doses.

Yep. Imagine a new pie shop. It opens with hot steaming pies. The Brits piled in, going pie-mental. The EU decide to let the pies cool a bit, and indeed do some tests to make sure there is no salmonella. Late in the afternoon they give the pies the all clear and form an orderly queue (except they don't - Brits queue, everyone else forms a melee). And, blow me down, almost all the pies have gone! The Germans are OK though because they nipped down the street earlier during the day and loaded up with pasties from an alternative outlet. But they still cant resist shaking their head at the Brits' gluttony.

One can only hope we don't get indigestion or any other adverse effects from our gung ho behaviour. I suspect we'll be fine though.

Meanwhile, the French bloke still can't get over the fact that the English are so unsophisticated and yet their pop music is a million times better than the likes of Sacha Distel and Johnny Hallyday, and the Greek lady still can't get the top off her bottle of olive oil.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The following quote is worrying as it is baseless but will cause the UK to get involved in the EU's inability to organise itself.

EU Justice Commissioner Didier Reynders has warned of a "vaccine war".

Speaking on Belgian radio, he said: "The EU commission has pushed to co-ordinate the vaccines contracts on behalf of the 27 precisely to avoid a vaccines war between EU countries, but maybe the UK wants to start a vaccine war?

"Solidarity is an important principle of the EU. With Brexit, it's clear that the UK doesn't want to show solidarity with anyone."

So the EU start by bashing AZ but now it's the fault of the UK as well ? Despite the UK government having nothing to do with this ? Deflection of incompetency strikes me as an appropriate phrase.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I agree completely that the UK Government should keep out.

However, in my experience of contract negotiations and worse, the detail of the contract always has more effect on the outcome than the date it was signed. As I stated right at the beginning, the EU being 3 months late was a major cock up. However, if the supplier is not fulfilling the contract and is already at maximum capacity (of which I don't think there is any doubt) they may well look at the other contracts they've signed.

If that were to happen, then our Government would need to get involved. That's my only concern with this whole debate.

I doubt that contract law would be any help to the EU. If a company says it will do its best to fulfil a contract but makes no promises, and then can't fulfil, no UK court would tell that company it must breach an entirely different contract made in a different company using different equipment part-paid for by the customer. I doubt any EU court would either. So what can they EU do? Obviously they can cancel their own contract for breach of terms, but that would be no use. They can be even more unpleasant to AstraZeneca, but all they are doing then is adding to AstraZeneca's costs which would be passed back to themselves in a price increase.

That's why the pliticians have to get involved from the EU point of view. There is no contractual escape. What the EU politicians need to worry about is that the people can clearly see that the UK is managing the vaccine rollout far better than the EU, in spite of the UK government's possibly well-deserved reputation for incompetence. So the EU people think their politicians are doing a bad job - which they are. So the EU politicians want top blame somebody else, and who better than the British.

It could cause a lot of stress to the EU. The EU people, assuming they want to blame someone, have three choices - their own politicians, the EU politicians, or AstraZeneca/UK politicians. I reckon there will be a large number of them blame the EU politicians. That's what the EU politicians are trying to avoid.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yep. Imagine a new pie shop. It opens with hot steaming pies. The Brits piled in, going pie-mental. The EU decide to let the pies cool a bit, and indeed do some tests to make sure there is no salmonella. Late in the afternoon they give the pies the all clear and form an orderly queue (except they don't - Brits queue, everyone else forms a melee). And, blow me down, almost all the pies have gone! The Germans are OK though because they nipped down the street earlier during the day and loaded up with pasties from an alternative outlet. But they still cant resist shaking their head at the Brits' gluttony.

One can only hope we don't get indigestion or any other adverse effects from our gung ho behaviour. I suspect we'll be fine though.

Meanwhile, the French bloke still can't get over the fact that the English are so unsophisticated and yet their pop music is a million times better than the likes of Sacha Distel and Johnny Hallyday, and the Greek lady still can't get the top off her bottle of olive oil.

Another amusing metaphor !!
Again though it isn’t quite right. The entire dispute centers around the EU insisting they are owed vaccines whilst AZ are explaining they did not commit to that production because the EU did not place their order in time to guarantee the effectiveness of the scaling up process. The EU will not be getting all the pies they want because they did not give the pie shop enough time to invest in upscale ovens that can manage the new, higher workload. Now the EU are trying to blame the pie shop and other customers for their own blunder.

 

[Notters]

So the EU start by bashing AZ but now it's the fault of the UK as well ? Despite the UK government having nothing to do with this ? Deflection of incompetency strikes me as an appropriate phrase.

Seems worse than that to me! Very ill-judged comments when our government seems to be staying suitably quiet.

 

[Notters]

Yep. Imagine a new pie shop. It opens with hot steaming pies. The Brits piled in, going pie-mental. The EU decide to let the pies cool a bit, and indeed do some tests to make sure there is no salmonella. Late in the afternoon they give the pies the all clear and form an orderly queue (except they don't - Brits queue, everyone else forms a melee). And, blow me down, almost all the pies have gone! The Germans are OK though because they nipped down the street earlier during the day and loaded up with pasties from an alternative outlet. But they still cant resist shaking their head at the Brits' gluttony.

One can only hope we don't get indigestion or any other adverse effects from our gung ho behaviour. I suspect we'll be fine though.

Meanwhile, the French bloke still can't get over the fact that the English are so unsophisticated and yet their pop music is a million times better than the likes of Sacha Distel and Johnny Hallyday, and the Greek lady still can't get the top off her bottle of olive oil.

I think your metaphor does our side injustice by suggesting the MHRA rushed things.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I agree completely that the UK Government should keep out.

However, in my experience of contract negotiations and worse, the detail of the contract always has more effect on the outcome than the date it was signed. As I stated right at the beginning, the EU being 3 months late was a major cock up. However, if the supplier is not fulfilling the contract and is already at maximum capacity (of which I don't think there is any doubt) they may well look at the other contracts they've signed.

If that were to happen, then our Government would need to get involved. That's my only concern with this whole debate.

I agree the government should keep out of it, while monitoring the situation closely. The problem will occur when the EU try the legal route. Where do they take their case to? If they take it to the European Courts it would be effectively a kangaroo court.

I'm not sure if they have any right to see our contract, unless a midget in Scotland shows it as she has threatened. She may do to curry favour with the EU, a dangerous game. If we loose vaccine orders due to this do we then protect the vaccines we have for the rest of the union and tell Scotland to do one?

To say this isn't a political issue for us is missing the intent of some to attempt anything to garner any political point scoring over another. She needs to be told by her own people to wind it in.

The concern is this isn't about a commodity but a way of saving lives. If we are stopped from getting the vaccine, the Pfizer one, and this we know would impact deaths, it could get very messy. As I posted who agrees the legality of stopping exports from the EU as being threatened.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Yep. Imagine a new pie shop. It opens with hot steaming pies. The Brits piled in, going pie-mental. The EU decide to let the pies cool a bit, and indeed do some tests to make sure there is no salmonella. Late in the afternoon they give the pies the all clear and form an orderly queue (except they don't - Brits queue, everyone else forms a melee). And, blow me down, almost all the pies have gone! The Germans are OK though because they nipped down the street earlier during the day and loaded up with pasties from an alternative outlet. But they still cant resist shaking their head at the Brits' gluttony.

One can only hope we don't get indigestion or any other adverse effects from our gung ho behaviour. I suspect we'll be fine though.

Meanwhile, the French bloke still can't get over the fact that the English are so unsophisticated and yet their pop music is a million times better than the likes of Sacha Distel and Johnny Hallyday, and the Greek lady still can't get the top off her bottle of olive oil.

The Italians? They're on their third shag of the day.

 

[Stockholm Syndrome]

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_302

Enjoy

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think your metaphor does our side injustice by suggesting the MHRA rushed things.

I'm suggesting they may have rushed things, and would have been seen to have done so had the vaccine turned out to be suboptimal for reasons that would have been detected with longer phase 1 testing. Fortunately this doesn't appear to be the case. The MHRA did a risk assessment and their gamble appears to have paid off.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I doubt that contract law would be any help to the EU. If a company says it will do its best to fulfil a contract but makes no promises, and then can't fulfil, no UK court would tell that company it must breach an entirely different contract made in a different company using different equipment part-paid for by the customer. I doubt any EU court would either. So what can they EU do? Obviously they can cancel their own contract for breach of terms, but that would be no use. They can be even more unpleasant to AstraZeneca, but all they are doing then is adding to AstraZeneca's costs which would be passed back to themselves in a price increase.

That's why the pliticians have to get involved from the EU point of view. There is no contractual escape. What the EU politicians need to worry about is that the people can clearly see that the UK is managing the vaccine rollout far better than the EU, in spite of the UK government's possibly well-deserved reputation for incompetence. So the EU people think their politicians are doing a bad job - which they are. So the EU politicians want top blame somebody else, and who better than the British.

It could cause a lot of stress to the EU. The EU people, assuming they want to blame someone, have three choices - their own politicians, the EU politicians, or AstraZeneca/UK politicians. I reckon there will be a large number of them blame the EU politicians. That's what the EU politicians are trying to avoid.

With all due respect, everything you have written may or may not be true, but with absolutely no knowledge of what is in any of the contracts, nobody knows. The only thing we do know is that the EU are at a disadvantage having signed the contract later but, as I pointed out above, my experience of contract law (in very different fields) is that makes very little difference to the detail of the contract

As I said earlier, I suspect more will come to light over the next few weeks and hopefully the AstraZeneca/EU dispute will not require a re-examination of the UK/AstraZeneca contract

 

[Bridcutt]

Not a great situation for everyone right now (AZ, the EU and us). AZ for obvious reasons. The EU because they are extremely behind in vaccinating and it looks to only get worse and the UK/us because there's a risk our contract with AZ will be jeopardised and a potential slowing of vaccines.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

AstraZeneca has published its contract with the EU, showing the clause committing to make "best reasonable efforts" to make and supply 300m doses of its vaccine to the bloc.

The drugs giant was under pressure to release the document, after Ursula von der Leyen threatened to do so herself, as she claimed it contained "binding orders" for a set amount of Covid vaccine doses.

However the redacted contract, which does not reveal how much was paid, states that "AstraZeneca has committed to use its Best Reasonable Efforts... to build capacity to manufacture 300 million Doses of the Vaccine, at no profit and no loss to AstraZeneca, at the total cost currently estimated to be [redacted] Euros for distribution within the EU, with an option for the Commission, acting on behalf of the Participating Member States, to order an additional 100 million Doses."

Earlier this week AstraZeneca boss Pascal Soriot said the EU contract was based on a "best-effort" clause and did not commit the company to a specific timetable for deliveries.

This morning the Spectator reports that when ministers saw a similar offer in the UK contract, Alok Sharma and Matt Hancock "insisted on a legally binding promise to serve Britain first", which they later received.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...ockdown-end-sturgeon-scotland-vaccine-brexit/

Looks like another fail on the part of the EU, slow to act and didn't nail down the contract delivery timetable ...